Newsgroups for Drivers: What I Learned from Others. by Susan McKeown

Newsgroups for Drivers: What I Learned From Others

Table of Contents

Instructions for this Report
Survey
Neighborhood Racers
Ms. Pena vs. Frederick County
Civil Liberties
Eliminate Speed Limits?
Freedom
Education vs. Punishment
Sp+15
Substitution
I'm Not Doing Anything Wrong
Comparisons to other Report in G9
Conclusion

Computers have opened up a new avenue for us to communicate and interact. Newsgroups are one of these new forms of interaction, a place where you can "post" you thoughts and receive countless responses as to how each person responding reacted regarding your "posting".

Following are several newsgroup "clippings" which I have selected along with a few of my own comments regarding what I believe the writer was thinking, whether it is a common idea, and whether or not I agree with it.

Subject: Road Rage and Aggressive Driving Survey
Date: 1998/07/01

Please take a few minutes to take my "Road Rage" survey. The data collected is to be used in my thesis on curbing aggressive driving and road rage. There is 13 questions in the survey. The survey is on my AT&T web page which can reached at [ http://home.att.net/~agressor ]

If you have any questions, comments or suggestions on my survey or thesis

Comments:
Although I was unable to link to the survey, I think that John has found a wonderful way of utilizing the Internet. By putting his survey on the Net, he is now able to reach many people who he would not have even thought of including in his survey.

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Subject: Re: "Traffic calming" thwarts speeders (was Re: Aggressive Driving)
Date: 1998/07/28

My city (Sacramento, CA) is currently doing major construction downtown to control speeders. Residents are sick and tired of people driving 50+ mph on downtown streets, endangering their children and causing excessive noise and commotion. Many of the speeders are yuppies who will swear that they are safe, intelligent drivers. Where have I heard that excuse before?

Yup, and who are the people complaining about people speeding through "their" neighborhood? They are the SAME people who go speeding through the neighborhood next to where they live! It's the attitude that our children are more precious than that other neighborhoods. These speeders are not punks in sports cars, they are MOMS and DADS coming home from soccer practice in the Ford Gargantuan. These are the same people who don't even bother to signal when they are going to and from the children's SHCOOL! Boggles the mind doesn't it?

Comments:
I think that comments like these help people to see that they indeed do participate in the very acts of driving which they condemn. Although not everybody drives aggressively, it is important for all of us to take a step back and make an effort in analyzing (as objectively as possible) our own behaviors and how we effect others.

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Subject: Re: Arrest Slow Drivers--One County's Answer to Aggressive Driving
Date: 1998/06/28
Ê
ÊIn our various discussions of aggressive driving, a number of possible policy options have been overlooked. One solution would be to simply arrest anyone who drives more than 10 mph under the speed limit÷better yet, anyone who drives less than 5mph over the limit. That would leave much more room for people who want to go fast, and thus, they would be less likely to be aggressive because they would be having a better day with no slowpokes on the road. Moreover, it is probably easier to enforce than other solutions because these slow drivers are so easy to
catch.

This policy is being tested in Frederick County, Maryland. Unfortunately, the only description I have is a biased editorial from the Washington Post, which opposes this policy--which one would expect from a liberal DC paper. Still, this conveys the general gist of this innovative solution to aggressive driving.

ESTER MARIA Pena's going to think twice before venturing into Frederick County,> Md., again. Perhaps so should most motorists if they, like Ms. Pena, happen to drive under the speed limit and might be likely to mistake a sheriff deputy's siren for an ambulance. Her harrowing June 12 experience with three county officers is one that ought to have county leaders and other citizens up in arms.

For driving 38 mph in a 55 mph zone and not pulling over when she heard a siren -- which she thought was coming from an ambulance she couldn't see -- Frederick County sheriff's deputies, one with gun drawn, descended upon Ms.Pena, a D.C. schoolteacher, manhandling her as if she were public enemy No. 1. It was a stark case of an excessive use of force and police overreaction. It was also a dumb thing to have done, made only dumber by the explanations from the sheriff's department.

Ê"Older ladies that are confused and scared unfortunately cause accidents," said Maj. Francis Tully in the sheriff's office. He was referring to the 58-year-old Ms. Pena.Ê Consider the possibility, however, that Maj. Tully has it backward. That maybe Ms. Pena -- who was driving slowly along the highway looking for an exit so she could get to her ladies' church group on time for lunch -- ended up scared out of her wits by the behavior of his deputies. Maybe driving slowly looking for a left exit does impede traffic flow. But does it warrant being pulled over, ordered to put your hands behind your head by officers -- one with gun drawn

Comments:
The writer here uses a very wonderful example of looking at things from all angle. When I first began reading this posting I thought to myself "huh, make sense, it would be easier to catch the slow ones instead of the faster ones." I could also imagine a lot of happy drivers who go a little faster than "normal. However, the newspaper article does provide an excellent example of what could (and does) happen. I am sure that there are many people who agree with getting the slow drivers (along with speeders) off the road, but we must remember, everything is relative, there's probably someone out there complaining about how slow you drive!

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Subject: Re: Arrest Slow Drivers--One County's Answer to Aggressive Driving
04 Jul 1998 00:19:30 GMT

Fat chance. Fortunately there are plenty of people out in the world who stillÊ care about civil liberties. Enough to keep the highway Nazis at bay anyway.Ê Really? Would those be the same people who are keeping the Drug Warriors at bay? They appear to be remarkably ineffective if you ask me.Ê Not nearly as ineffective as the "Drug Warriors" are at doing their appointed task.Ê You can't legislate away something that people *want* to do ö whether it's drugs or driving fast. You can make the laws, but it doesn't mean that they'll be obeyed, no matter what the penalties.

Comments:
"You can make the laws, but it doesn't mean that they'll be obeyed..." What a wonderful statement. This is what man faces in everything that he does. The wonderful gift of Free Agency. It would be wonderful if we always chose the Right, but sometimes then there are times when you don't. This writer seems to get a little carried away and I can imagine that he has a little bit if pent up frustration, perhaps he should smile more:)

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True, but the fact is that the vast majority of people understand and agree with traffic safety laws, including speed limits...that's why you haven't been successful in getting speed limits eliminated. And until you do, the rest of us will do what we can to punish those who endanger others by speeding.

Comments:
And how does the author propose that we keep "punishing" these people. Sure, the police can not be every where all the time, but that doesn't mean that that gives us the right to take the law into our own hands. In due time every man will have to face his own wrong doings.

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No, I'm not a druggie, I just believe in maximizing freedom and responsibility for onesself. I think motorcycle helmet laws and seatbelt laws are as obnoxious as these other laws we've been discussing, and I use both seatbelts and a helmet religiously.

Good for you, now all you have to do is learn to respect the rights of others to be safe on the highways and refrain from endangering them by speeding.

Comments:
I don;t think that I could have responded to the first writer any better. The first writer states that they only want to "maximize freedom" by driving as he wishes? I don't think so. What about the freedom for the slow driver, or the speed racer? When it comes down to it, there are so many different types of drivers out there, that we just need to be a little more considerate and positive when driving.

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Subject: Re: Arrest Slow Drivers--One County's Answer to Aggressive Driving
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 06:07:30 GMT
Ê

I do respect the rights of others by trying to drive in a safe manner at all times. I simply do not believe that moving a vehicle at a speed 10-20mph above most posted speed limits (depending on the highway, surrroundings, and local conditions) constitutes a significant endangerment of *anybody*.

There is no such thing as a totally safe speed -- there's always risk in driving. Sometimes reasonable safety can only be achieved by going SP-15 and sometimes reasonable can be achieved at SP+15.

The idea that the "speed limit" is some kind of magic dividing line between "safe" and "unsafe" is absurd. It's ludicrous to claim that a risk rate of, say .5 is acceptible, whereas a risk rate (raised by additional speed) of .51 is not. This is especially true when there are *so many* other factors affecting driving safety -- training, sobriety, skill, equipment, awareness ... the list goes on and on. Most of these factors, in my opinion, have a far greater affect on the "safety calculation" then simply a few mph of additional speed. If we (meaning citizens) are truly interested in highway safety, then it's these other factors that should be focused on.

My analogy to the "drug war" holds here too: we spend billions of $$ being "tough guys" trying to destroy the "enemies" to our south that are manufacturing/growning our drugs for us. It's cool - we get to act all macho and use lots of high-tech equipment just like in the movies, but if we truly wanted to make the country a "safer" (i.e. more drug-free) place we'd concentrate on education and on other factors that stimulate *demand*. But it's not as cool, and you can't use as many guns doing that.

I really don't mean to start a drug war rant here -- it's just that I see a remarkable simularity in attitudes. "Enforcement" is always touted as the way to go -- getting *tough* is what we need... I just wish that people who care about these issues would realize that "kicking ass" isn't the answer to every problem, and that often problems can be solved quicker and better by subtler, more humane, more effective, and cheaper methods.

And so with speeding. Enforcing artificial speed limits is not going to make the roads a significantly safer place. Much could be done in other areas of the highway safety issue with the funds that are currently going to police salaries and equipment. Hell, even if the police headcount and toys were to be maintained, there are a lot of better things that they could be doing with my tax dollars...like nabbing that partially intoxicated person I was driving behind tonight.

Comments:
Has Eric taken Dr James' class before? What Eric has to say is something that everyone needs to hear. His idea of educating and knowledge aply's to all situations, not just driving. Not many people can bring themselves to agree with Eric, but when they do, perhaps Dr James will be President of the US and the world will be free of road rage.

In his opening statements, Eric mention all the different factors which constantly changing and affecting our driving. Many times these factors are often neglected. perhaps as Dr James has stated many times in lectures, the government does need to take a look at the purpose and effects of speed limits.

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Subject: Re: Arrest Slow Drivers--One County's Answer to Aggressive Driving
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 07:24:16

The problem is that SP+15 may be safe for YOU, but it's not safe for anybody else. And that "more safer at SP+15" depends upon everybody else obeying the speed limit so YOU can go 15 over. If *everybody* went 15 over, then you'd be right back where you started, and you'd have to go 15 over *that*, and so on and so on in an ever increasing race to be first.

It's my experience that speeders are merely inconsiderate sphincters who *just can't stand* to be behind anybody else...and if you raised the speed limit to 150 mph, they would be driving 170+.

This was proven when the 55 speed limit went away and the sphincters are now going 85 instead of 65. They are never satisfied as long as and so with speeding. Enforcing artificial speed limits is not going to make the roads a significantly safer place.

Perhaps, but NOT enforcing them will absolutely lead to a more *dangerous* place, and that's rather the point.

Comments:
Again we see the tremendous problem of having different classes of drivers on the road. But as stated in the previous clipping, education may be the answer. If drivers new how to drive (safely) under various conditions and speeds, there would not be as big of an aggressive driving problem.

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ÊDate: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:04:59 GMT

It's my experience that speeders are merely inconsiderate sphincters who *just can't stand* to be behind anybody else...

Funny, I'd substitute "slow drivers" for "speeders" above. One of my theories is that slow drivers (in WA anyway) won't pull over and let others pass simply because they don't want to be behind another driver. *Especially* if it's raining, because they get splashed if they're behind someone. I personally don't mind being behind someone if they're going at a good clip.

Comments:
When we hear the terms "aggressive driving" or "road rage" many of us automatically think fast drivers. What I am about to say does not condone their actions, but there are a few drivers out there that do provoke such actions, not because they really do drive slow, but intentionally. Both fast and slow drivers need to learn to be more considerate of those around them.

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The problem is that SP+15 may be safe for YOU, but it's not safe for anybody else.

How could it be safe for *me* and not safe for everybody else. If it's safe for me, then that means I'm not going to get into an accident due to speed. If I'm not going to get into an accident due to speed, then I'm clearly not going to hit anybody else. What are you suggesting, that fast drivers are just going to run other people off the road (without a collision??)? And that "more safer at SP+15" depends upon everybody else obeying the speed limit so YOU can go 15 over.

Where does this dependency come from? I think that most competent drivers (that is, the majority) could travel in reasonable safety at 15mph over current speed limits, if other factors permitted (weather etc).. Excellent drivers could probably go even faster

Comments:
It is almost frightening to think that there are millions of drivers out there who think as this writer does. Just because they don't get into a crash, doesn't mean that they haven't caused any. It's almost synonymous to the situation where the drunk driver leaves the scene of an accident the least harmed.

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Compared to my classmates...

Compared to the reports of my fellow classmates in G9, I feel that I have done a decent job. There were some who did the minimum basic requirements, and those who went the extra mile. I do think it was interesting how many different newsgroups we were all able to find, considering we were all given the same keywords to work with.
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Conclusion

In conclusion, I feel that we can all gain some new insight by participating in newsgroups, I do not feel however, that "arguing" is an appropriate method of communication. Why do you think we have aggressive driving? The most enjoyable postings are those that are informative and willing to "discuss" different topics.
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