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Subject: Re: 65 MPH!
The Finally Did it!
Date: 1998/01/13
Why should I risk
getting a ticket because you're
unable to handle following a simple rule?
If it's in that particular situation, I would not expect you
to drive at anything other than a speed which would be,
_prima facie_ safe for that situation.
If however, you're on dry pavement five lanes wide and
everyone else is
running ten-over, I _would_ expect you to have the courtesy to
stick to a rightmost lane if you're
going to stick to the double-nickel.
Only if that's the safest lane in which to travel. If it is, I
do. Part of the problem of so many drivers breaking the
law is that it's not always safe or at least
comfortable to drive the limit in any lane.
Why should I be forced to choose between breaking
the law and being harrassed? running in _prima facie_
mode at a relative-velocity of 20 MPH, they are clearly
_way-beyond stupid_. That's "willful
destruction" as well as "impeding the reasonable flow
of traffic" - the fact of the matter is that they willfully
decided to take an action that will result in a lot more
damage than letting a bunch of people use the road to
its capability.
You're simply ignoring
the fact that the pack can go at 30, at 55, at 99
miles per hour. They can choose. They're not robot drones who
are
programmed to only go 78 mph. They willfully decided to take
an action that they know is illegal.
No, I am not ignoring the fact that the pack can go whatever
speed _is reasonable for the conditions_. If the road
and all else warrants 10-over, I can't see anything
wrong with it. If the road warrants that 10-over, and not
MPH more, anyone driving over that is pushing the limit. See,
the speed-limit is, IMHO, intended more as a
_guide_ in most
cases, rather than as
a hard-and-fast unbreakable limit.
In your opinion, but not in real life. Not in the cop's ticket
book.
It's been a long long time since any cop around here passed
out a ticket for exceeding the speed-limit by five MPH,
unless it was maybe through a school-zone, which is one
of the few places that speedlimits should always be
honored and enforced.
If
you want laws like that then write your elected
representatives. Don't you think they'd be incredibly
popular if they backed higher speed limits? If your
evidence is so unassailable they'd be heroes, and you along with
them!
Ticker-tape 70mph parades!
It's supposd to be a
guideline, It's a law! Are you pretending to be dense or what?
No, I think you're
neither giving the law any flexibility, nor the cop who has
to decide whether he's going to ticket an entire highway or
only the worst offenders.
which is after all why most cops don't ticket
someone for exceeding by five or ten MPH, unless
they're driving erratically or cut it too close to someone and cause
a dangerous situation.
The cops like these kinds of laws because it means they can
pretty much pull over anyone they like. Does that sound
like a police state? I
thought it might.
They can pretty much pull over anyone they like at any time
for any reason, like maybe just because they think that
nobody would be impeding traffic like tht if they knew
how to drive well enough to be possessed of a valid
license... Does that sound like a police state? I thought it might.
Actually, if the person's speeding, they could have been
pulled over anyways. So that particular rhetorical
approach to the argument is pretty silly.
And that's the concept
you need to get clear about - "right of way".
I already understand
that, asshole. You need to understand that I have a
right to drive 55 in a 55, and that if some asshole like
yourself rear-ends me because I won't exceed the speed
limit it is your fault, not mine.
If they rear-end you, it's certainly their fault. but if
you're going to
drive
slow, do the rest of the world a favor, silly person, and
stick in theslow-lanes.
Which are defined as what? Unfortunately there are no
"speed limit
only in
this lane" lanes. Speeders travel in any and all lanes, many weave
in and out to gain that extra 3 seconds. Too much Mario
Andretti on the brain.
Again, not arguing to
the point. But in my opinion you're probably somewhat
confusing aggressive drivers, dangerously aggressive drivers,
and people exceeding the speedlimit. Sometimes people
could be all of the above. This last case is what the
cops should be after.
Does it bother you that
some people can follow a simple law and you can't?
That some of us are blissfully free of fear of police cars and
red and blue lights and radar guns?
If I was afraid of them, do you think I'd be exceeding the
speedlimit? And believe me, I _can_ follow a law and
for the most part I do - my lack of an arrest record
would tend to indicate that.
So you speed right past them? Don't worry about getting a
ticket? Don't look out for officers and don't have or
want a radar detector? You may not be viscerally
frightened of them but you do wish to avoid them, don't you?
"Mr./Ms. Policeman is your friend" you know.
For one, I do look out for police vehicles, but not
specifically. I'm looking out for _all_ vehicles. If
one happens to be a police cruiser I'm not exactly
going to speed up and I do check my speed. If I'm driving with the
pack, I maintain speed, no point in locking up my
brakes and looking like the sort of dangerous driver
who overreacts. I do not have nor do I want a radar-detector,
I _usually_ am not speeding at any rate sufficient to warrant
the expense of the radar detector nor the tickets you
can get for having one.
Are you happy being a
member of the zebra herd waiting for the police lion
to choose which among you in the pack is to be picked off?
Wouldn't you rather be higher up in the food chain?
This is silly, but I'll spit the bait right back at you. How
do you _know_ that I'm not the police lion?
Not sure how you would
be if you're not in a police car. Do you never go
anywhere in your own car? Have you always been a policeman?
Have you ever
considered that making such assumptions, either one way of the
other, might not be a good idea?
By the way, your
analogy is inapt, while the zebra pack runs, it is the
straggler who gets picked off, not those that keep up with the
herd. And this is true in real life situations as well.
How can my analogy be
inapt and then fit reality perfectly? In what way
are the "stragglers" = speed limit driving drivers "picked
off" and the speeders are not?
If the speeder is off
of the highway by the time the officer can get into the
traffic flow, (s)he's going to be plenty mad I bet, and will
probably snag the very next person who violates
anything.
But I know if I were an
officer, and I saw traffic running at 8-over and
someone cruising along at
exactly the speedlimit, I'd
personally consider that
vehicle and the driver to be acting suspiciously. And I'd dog
them until they did something I could pull them for,
simply because I'd want to find out why they're acting
suspiciously and there's nothing like a good close-up look
whilst calling in the license and so forth.
I'm reminded of the way
some animals avoid being chased and killed. They
don't run! Running excites the predator response.
The only animals that
use that strategy are ones that have armor or quills.
So perhaps my analogy
is not perfect. The victim is not the one who falls
behind but one who runs with the pack. I'm some other species
entirely,
which doesn't have meat the lion wants. He can't give me a
ticket for obeying the limit and driving safely.
No but he can pull you
over for driving like you had something to hide. Did
you know that driving exactly at speed limit is an item on a
drug-courier profile?
If obeying the limit is
defined by him as driving unsafely, then you'll see
one hell of a court case, as that puts every driver on every
highway in Maryland in a trick bag no one can escape
from.
Guilty if you speed,
guilty if you don't. This is essentially the situation I balk
at, and attitudes like yours, that everyone should
speed, encourage this kind of thinking.
I'm not gonna get upset
if you drive the speedlimit, as long as you don't just
set cuirse control on and blithely ignore everything else
around you! There's just no need to be so pathological
about it.
Why place blame on the
person who's doing the right thing? Mob rule on the
highway? Oh yeah, that's a great idea.
Actually, as stated
above, traffic is a pack condition. Just plain can't go
with the flow? If you're incompetent to drive, get off of the
roads. If you're using legalities to bolster your
point, go for it - just do everyone a favor
and stick to the right lane and whatever you do, _learn how to
drive so that
I already know how to
drive. Better than most since I have to stay out of
the way of idiots like you.
Actually, we may be the
better drivers since we have to not only cope with our
own brand of idiocy, but yours as well.
We all have to cope
with all the drivers on the road.
you don't block
people's "outs" and don't sit in the fast lane doing "stat" or
whatever problems there are, you'll be causing_.
The right lane is for
merging, and with short exits and small engine cars
it can mean 40 mph or less, and I don't care for that.
The center lanes are
those packs you so love and wish to be a running-zebra
member of, and I can't always go 55 there safely.
Is a running-zebra sort
of like a running-dog as in lackey of the capitalist
imperialists?
I should hope you
wouldn't go 55 in the center lane. Especially not if the
speedlimit's 65.
I was speaking of roads
that are limited to 55. Obviously I should have
said 65 for 65 mph roads.
So sometimes you will
see me in the left lane -- when there's not a lot of
traffic, speeders avoid it because they think that police
point their radar guns at the left lane. In fact, I
have to do the left lane, if I'm using a left exit.
Same with big trucks.
Your point being?
Maybe they oughtn't to
have so many left-exits.
At a left exit I have
to use fairly often, I used to try to get out of
everyone's way, and that meant either speeding or missing my
exit. I am to the point where I don't care if you like
it or not and I just go 55 in that left lane when it
becomes the left exit, 80mph european blinking light
fuckwits notwithstanding. If you're any kind of driver you can
handle it.
If you're not, I'm aware that people who can't drive 55 and
have no defensive driving skills are out there and I'm
always ready to avoid you.
As I am occasionally forced to.
Not me you aren't, not
bloody likely. As for handling perosns such as yourself
in traffic, I'm used to it. However, in this era of aggressive
driving, wherever possible it's an excellent idea to go
with the flow if it's at all readsonable. However, I
don't think that you're being all too reasonable. In
fact, you seem to be showing all of the symptoms of road rage - read
back in this article and you'll see that without any
provocation you've had to resort to assorted curses,
etc, all of which I could do as well.
I'm just a foul mouthed
kind of gal. But really, you are presuming that I
should be happy being harassed on the road. I'm not. Do you
never get angry at anything, anywhere? Are you Spock? I
kind of doubt it.
I get plenty mad all of
the time. Get me started on illegal immigrants
sometime. Get me started on illegal immigrants in beat-up cars
driving ten MPH less than the speed limit, and you'll
be amazed. Get me started on an entirely overloaded car
packed full of an entire extended family of illegal immigrants
driving on the freeway in the left lane at ten MPH less than
the speedlimit and you'll be more than amazed.
But when you're in
control of something as deadly as a car it ain't time to
get mad.
But I'm not - I'm
going with the flow. And I'm not getting mad, and starting to
drive erratically, and jumping all over the place in
complete disregard of the flow.
I don't drive
erratically. I am very observant in changing lanes, I change
decisively once I decide it's clear, I accelerate rapidly to
the speed limit, I signal, I don't stop and go and
weave and duck through traffic.
I'm going a steady
legal speed when the 80 mph fuckwits come up on my
bumper. Nothing erratic about that.
I do hope you don't
drive like you argue, you'd definitely have to be
classifed as a road hazard.
Why, because you can't
handle either one?
I seem to be handling both rather well
Don't get me wrong, I'm
actually happy if they raise a speed limit to a
reasonable one. But I don't want to exceed the limit. As we
know
insurance rates go up when you get speeding tickets and I
can't afford any points on my license at all.
And how did that come
to be?
I live in the city. I
have zero (0) points, no chargeable accidents ever.
The one accident I was ever in was six years ago caused by a
driver entering the road without looking at all (he was
in a hurry to get to the bar), and it was 100% his
fault.
So you can afford (but
don't want; entirely reasonable) tickets!
City residents pay quite a lot in car insurance. Check it out
some time,
it was the topic of another thread. We as
Americans are not only entitled to, but have a duty to, resist laws
that we feel to be unreasonably intrusive, senseless,
or even merely annoying.
Resist annoying laws? I
think I suggested changing them. Ignoring them is
just allowing the police a good way to arrest and harrass
anyone they want to. It's called selective enforcement,
and it's wrong. The same laws should be enforced the
same way for everyone.
14th Amendment Section I, I guess you've got an okay memory.
As to changing the
speed-limits, believe me everyone voted for the increase
but it still didn't happen, something about Federal highway
dollars.
I remember that at one
point in time, in Kansas there was a _prima facie_ rule
and people did 90MPH all of the time and they hardly had any
wrecks. They dropped the speed limit down to the
double-nickle and they started falling asleep at the
wheel and dying like flies.
How about some
statistics for this? What's the technical term for dying
like flies?
It's anecdotal. Anyone
from kansas want to back this one up?
Maybe Toto will bark
something up for you...
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