MESSAGE FROM DR. JAMES

Message no. 9
Thursday, January 2, 2003 11:14am
Subject Instructions for discussion topics

Instructions:

(i) You are to search for things on both sides of each

issue.

(ii) You are to search for a variety of sources or

levels of content, not just one type--e.g., articles and

reports, books, journals, magazines, online discussions,

product descriptions, pamphlets, movie scripts,

archives, song lyrics, etc. etc.)

(iii) For this Bibliography report you are to answer a

minimum of 6 research questions to be selected from the

list below.

1. Television characters and sexism

It has been claimed that the proportion of male

characters on television makes children's programs

sexist. What evidence or opinions can you find for and

against this claim?

2. Commercials and cartoons

Is there any connection between the images of

appropriate male and female behavior in cartoons and the

types of products advertised in the commercials which

accompany them? What relationships can be found between

different programs and the products which sponsor them?

3. Conflicts of adolescent girls

What are some of the possible conflicts between cultural

scripts and authentic selves of adolescent girls? What

evidence or opinions can you find on this issue?

4. Sexist jokes and men

Why do many men find sexist jokes about women amusing?

Do men benefit form this type of humor? What evidence or

opinions can you find for this topic.

5. Coca-Cola with aspirin

Combining Coca-Cola and aspirin will get you high. Find

evidence and opinion for and against this claim.

6. Talents of successful people

Many successful people are no more talented than

unsuccessful people. Find evidence and opinion for and

against this claim.

7. Instant gratification without patience

Someone stated that today we live in a culture of

instant gratification, where the attributes of patience

and determination are hard to find. Find evidence and

opinion for and against this claim.

8. Helping yourself by helping others

„The best way to help yourself is to help others.š What

type of people believe this principle of life? Where is

this statement being used, by whom, and for what

purpose? What has been written about this belief?

9. Success is hanging on

„Success is largely hanging on after others have let

go.š Is there evidence for this claim? In what context

do people say this?

10. Judged by what we finish

„Keep your promises. We are judged by what we finish,

not by what we start.š Find evidence and opinions for or

against this advice.

11. Kicked while down

„People always remember two things: who kicked you when

you were down, and who helped you up.š Find evidence and

opinions for or against this claim. Who tends to say

this?

12. Woman and man's role

It has been said about relationships that a woman‚s role

is to help her man to improve himself, and wise is the

man who cooperates. Find evidence and opinions for or

against this claim. Who tends to be for, who against?

Why?

13. Driving without compassion

Aggressive driving has been attributed by some people to

traffic congestion and time pressure, while others

believe that it is the result of lack of compassion and

caring for one another on the road. Explore what is

being said on both sides of the issue.

14. Optimism and self-efficacy

One view is that it‚s good to believe in yourself and in

positive outcomes (e.g., self-efficacy and optimism),

but there are those who disagree (e.g., pessimism,

cynicism). Which belief is expressed where, by whom, and

how?

15. Other approved topics

Make up your own research question, email it to Dr.

James at leon@hawaii.edu and ask if it‚s OK. If

approved, you can then use it as one of the Research

Questions.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The above is taken from

the Instructions for your bibliography Report located

at:

www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/leonj/leonpsy18/g18bibliography.html

Message no. 11
Monday, January 20, 2003 9:40am
Subject Television Characters and Sexism

Personally I think that the claim of male characters on

television making children's programs sexist could be

true for the current generation but not necessarily

through the years of television. I can remember when I

was young watching girl shows such as 'My Little

Ponies,' 'Strawberry Shortcake,' and 'Rainbow Bright.'

These shows did have male characters in them but they

were directed towards girls. On the other hand, males of

my generation recall watching such cartoons as

'Transformers,' 'G.I. Joe,' and 'HeMan,' and of course

both sexes occasionally watched eachothers chartoons.

Today there is still a division of what girls and boys

watch, but through controversy sexism is always brought

up in every cartoon which in my conclusion is inevitable

because humans are a sex and will forever be involved in

sexism.

Two interesting articles I found on the internet were

"Kids TV: A guide for the perplexed"

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0896kidtv.htm,

by Steve Sailer, and "Smurfy Sexism: Created with a

biased hand"

http://www.english.wayne.edu/~calice/Ferguson/smurf.html, by

Mariruth Graham. Take a breif look at the articles. The

first article gives examples of different shows and the

sexims involved, and the second points out the

stereotypes of women in the well known cartoon 'The

Smurfs.' In the first article Steve Sailer brings up the

point that most Disney movies are focused towards the

female audience, which is a strong contradictory point

to for the claim of male characters making programs

sexist. However Mariruth Graham takes a look at the

classic cartoon which only contains one female and she

reports that "Smurfette's physical characteristics draw

her as a stereotype which promotes sexism because of the

prejudice messages the writers illustrate." Both

articles take a look at sexism on cartoons and have good

supporting evidence. Alltogether, I remain with the

conculsion that there will always be controversy on

sexism because we are sex.

Message no. 13
Monday, January 20, 2003 5:03pm
Subject Coca_Cola and aspirin

The question, "Will Coca-Cola and aspirin get you high?"

just sounds false. These are one of the many urban

legends that circulate among people, mainly teenagers,

such as "If you make a silly face and get slapped hard

on the back, you'll stay like that forever" or "if you

step on a crack, you'll break your mother's back."

However, taking aspirin alone is a risk for some people,

depending on thier sensitivity to certain medicines.

Sometimes it's hard to judge if the statement is true or

not because some urban legends seem so real. There's

one urban legend that appeared on MTV about eating too

much poppy seeds will show positive for, I believe, a

heroin test. MTV actually had a girl test it and it did

show positive.

For the statement, "Coca-Cola and aspirin will get you

high" is false according to an article on

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp by Barbara

and David P. Mikkelson. It states that there are other,

supposedly affects, of ingesting Coca-Cola and aspirin:

it's an aphrodisiac, it's a great way to get high, it

causes instant death, and it cures headaches. These

beliefs have been around for awhile. Barbara and David

says that the belief might of originated in the 1930's

when a doctor from Illinois wrote to the Journal of the

American Medical Association to warn that teenagers were

dissolving aspirin in Coca-Cola to create an

intoxicating beverage. The article then briefly

explains the other supposed affects of taking aspirin

with Coca-Cola. Towards the end of the article, it has

a "sightings" of the belief and says that the belief of

combination of Coke and aspirin forms an intoxicant

comes up in the 1978 film "Grease".

Message no. 35[Branch from no. 13]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:13pm
Subject Re: Coca_Cola and aspirin

I actually watched that episode on MTV about Urban

legends. When the girl went to get checked up for any

drug substances in her body. Her results came back

positive. Now that is really scary. I'm going to stay

far away from poppy seeds. I also heard that if you

drink soda with pop rocks then youre going to explode.

theres a lot of weird stuff going around and they only

way to know if it is true is to try it for yourself.

Message no. 105[Branch from no. 35]
Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:40pm
Subject Re: Coca_Cola and aspirin

no...the other way to find out if they're true...is to

trick someone else into trying it...

"here, have some pop rocks, they're good" "oh, and by

the way, try drinking this...NO...its not soda...would i

do that to you?"

BOOM!!!

Message no. 33
Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:11pm
Subject Coke & Aspirin

This just made me laugh when I read this. I have never

heard this before. I knew this had to be an urban

legend. There is no way that taking an aspirin and

washing it down with a Coke-Cola could get someone high.

Think of all the millions of people around the world

that drink Coke. Now think of all the millions of

people who take aspirin. That means there are millions

of people putting this combination into their stomachs.

Everyone around you in daily life is not high. I can

not count the number of times I have combined these two.

But I did some research. Just as I had suspected this

is not true. It was interesting how many other stories

were out there about Coke. This reminds me of the urban

legend when I was a kid. We were told that if you ate a

package of "Pop-Rocks" and drank a "Pepsi" your stomach

would blow up inside of you. We never combined these

two when I was a kid. This just sounds like another

updated for the new generation urban legend. But I did

find a lot of proof of this on the internet.

www.naplesnews.com/02/09/marco/d81179a.htm

www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

www.geocities.com/muslimtruth.Coca_Cola_Proof.html

Message no. 415[Branch from no. 33]
Wednesday, February 26, 2003 1:35pm
Subject Re: Coke & Aspirin

This made me wonder if this is actually true. I tried

taking coke and aspirin together to see if it really

does make you high. In this experimentation I was ready

for anything. Nothing happened whatsoever? I even tried

aspirin with pepsi, nothing happened there too. I was a

little disappointed, but I just let it go. I went to

look at Heather's three sites and found out they were

not true. This is why I tried it first before looking

anything up. I had to laugh to when this bogus

information turned out to be untrue. The only thing that

I can think of that this combination might produce is a

jolt of caffiene or a development of an ulcer.

Message no. 57
Friday, January 24, 2003 3:47pm
Subject TV characters and sexism

I was specifically searching for information on the

claim that the porportion of male characters on TV make

children's shows sexist. I started off by using Lycos as

my search engine. After having little to no luck I

decided to broaden my range of searching to sexism and

cartoons (I figure cartoons are the main programs

children watch). I was having a little more luck using

terms such as: cartoons sexism; tv programs sexism;

sexist tv. I decided to try the search engine MSN. MSN

was a lot easier to use. Using the same key words I was

able to acess more information pertaining to this topic.

Here are a few web sites I used in my search:

http://www.sesameworkshop.org/sesamestreet/?scrollerId=zoe

http://www.bluedojo.com/papers/sexism/

http://www.english.wayne.edu/~calice/Ferguson/smurf.html

Much to my suprise I found valid information that can be

evidence to the claim that cartoons are sexist. I found

that many cartoons have no or a very limited number of

female characters on them. Ex.(A couple of my favorite

cartoons growing up) Seseame Street-Zoe Smurfs -

smurfette I found that not only are many of these

childrens programs sexist, but they are also very

stereotypical. The evidence I found against this topic

is was very limited, but there is good news for todays

children.We are now in the days of Power Puff Girls!

This cartoon demenstrates girl power (well, it's a good

place to start).There are also a number of new cartoons

that have come out in recent years that have more female

characters, but I'm not sure when or if females

characters can catch up to the male cartoon population.

Message no. 146[Branch from no. 57]
Monday, February 3, 2003 7:45pm
Subject Re: TV characters and sexism

although i agree that the power puff girls is a good

place to start with repairing the sexist-laden

children's shows, are we aware of how stinkin' bratty

this show is? i don't remember what study i read, but

it monitored the behavior of girls before and after a

not-completely-unrealistic amount of watching power puff

girls and documented their lowered respect for authority

and i can't remember what else, but general increased

overall abnoxiousness. although i think 'girl power'

shows are great, i wouldn't let my girls watch power

puffs cause frankly, i don't want abnoxious kids.

Message no. 65
Friday, January 24, 2003 5:00pm
Subject Viewers demand for sexism on television

I was looking for television characters and sexism and

searched in msn.com under the phrase "television and

sexism". I then got several results and looked under

the link that said "Sexism and Culture". The link took

me to www.bludedojo.com/papers/sexism.

This article was called "Sexism and Culture in

Television" which stated that our culture demands for

sexism. Sexism makes the show more believable. For an

example, male characters believably exemplify strength

and endurance much more than female characters could.

Men are more qualified to play some parts than women are

for this reason.

An example the writer used was the show, Walker: Texas

Ranger. The character of the Texas Ranger had to be

played by a male character to make the "kick-butt"

scenes more believeable. Having a woman do Tae Kwan Do

and wiping out all the bad guys would not believeable.

The writer also said that to include a female character

as a hero is to change society's way of thinking. Many

times, shows flop because they try too hard to push

women to play characters of heroes. We need to slowly

do this and slowly have society adapt.

Message no. 143[Branch from no. 65]
Monday, February 3, 2003 7:17pm
Subject Re: Viewers demand for sexism on television

it makes sense why networks would support sexism. i'm

not saying i support this, but as far as the general

viewer, i understand the point being made. people

generally watch tv as a form of entertainment and

escapism. after a long day of work do you think Joe

Factory wants to question his ideology by watching a

superheroine save the world, or do you think he wants to

live vicariously through the hero and save HER? my

guess is the latter. cable channels like USA have made

shows like La Femme Nikita for a long time now, and

there are those incredible cheesy Xena-type shows, but

those are more sexploitation than superhero, i think. i

do think it's a good sign however, that ABC's Alias is

doing so well, with a strong female CIA lead character,

that it's likely we'll see more atypical characters in

the future.

Message no. 416[Branch from no. 65]
Wednesday, February 26, 2003 1:45pm
Subject Re: Viewers demand for sexism on television

In the matter of sexism on television, I believe that

the topics or characters on the shows put these types of

people on to attract the public to watch them. An

example of this would be the t.v. show Baywatch. Have

you ever seen any life gaurds that look as good as these

characters, no. Sexism is the number one thing that

television exploits. Sexism on television is a must as

well as a story line. Men as well as women are succumbed

to these types of exposure. Women are portrayed to be

the beautiful and erotic helpless person, and the man is

portrayed to be the tough, strong, and heroic character.

This degrades both male and female. I checked out the

site that Ly checked out which was, www.bludejojo.com,

and sure enough it shows that our culture demands this

type of out look.

Message no. 206
Friday, February 7, 2003 10:30am
Subject Coca cola and aspirin

I wanted to find out if there was any truth to this

rumor that I had heard previously in high school. To

search, I used Google.com. with the words: Coca Cola and

aspirin. Many, many website matches appeared. One of

them was very informative:

www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp Basically, this

website derailed this claim as false. It listed the

four most common rumors about Coke and aspirin: 1) it is

an aphrodisiac 2) it is a good way to get high 3) it

causes instant death 4) it cures headaches This website

even documents places in which girls are taught to be

aware of their cokes and not to let some boy slip an

aspirin in their drinks or they will fall for him

instantly. This website even sites the start of these

rumors. A doctor from Illinois published an article in

the "Journal of the American Medical Association" in

1930 stating that the mixture of Coca cola and aspirin

resulting in an intoxicating high. Personally, I find

it hard to believe this rumor. However, I can see how

teenage kids would fall for any one of these rumors

based on their desire to be adult and get high.

Message no. 683
Friday, April 4, 2003 12:04am
Subject woman in war

i looked in google using women in war. i thought this

relevant due to our war with Iraq.

http://womenshistory.about.com/cs/militarywar/

this is a site that has many links to it about the

history of women and the roles they play in war. The

roles of the women in the military has changed. They

used to disguise themselves so that they were able to

fight. But for most they found themselves in the role as

servicers. For example they would sew or do other

traditional women things. The times have changed but

not all that much. Women are still not allowed on the

frontlines. They are only able to fly and bring

supplies to the front lines but not fight. Should they

be able to have that option or should the role of women

in war be as they have been and support the men where

they can?

 

1. TELEVISION CHARACTERS AND SEXISM

Message no. 12
Monday, January 20, 2003 9:44am
Subject Cartoon Characters

Personally I think that the claim of male

characters on television making children's programs

sexist could be true for the current generation but not

necessarily through the years of television. I can

remember when I was young watching girl shows such as

'My Little Ponies,' 'Strawberry Shortcake,' and 'Rainbow

Bright.' These shows did have male characters in them

but they were directed towards girls. On the other hand,

males of my generation recall watching such cartoons as

'Transformers,' 'G.I. Joe,' and 'HeMan,' and of course

both sexes occasionally watched eachothers chartoons.

Today there is still a division of what girls and boys

watch, but through controversy sexism is always brought

up in every cartoon which in my conclusion is inevitable

because humans are a sex and will forever be involved in

sexism.

Two interesting articles I found on the internet were

"Kids TV: A guide for the perplexed"

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0896kidtv.htm,

by Steve Sailer, and "Smurfy Sexism: Created with a

biased hand"

http://www.english.wayne.edu/~calice/Ferguson/smurf.html, by

Mariruth Graham. Take a breif look at the articles. The

first article gives examples of different shows and the

sexims involved, and the second points out the

stereotypes of women in the well known cartoon 'The

Smurfs.' In the first article Steve Sailer brings up the

point that most Disney movies are focused towards the

female audience, which is a strong contradictory point

to for the claim of male characters making programs

sexist. However Mariruth Graham takes a look at the

classic cartoon which only contains one female and she

reports that "Smurfette's physical characteristics draw

her as a stereotype which promotes sexism because of the

prejudice messages the writers illustrate." Both

articles take a look at sexism on cartoons and have good

supporting evidence. Alltogether, I remain with the

conculsion that there will always be controversy on

sexism because we are sex.

Message no. 14[Branch from no. 12]
Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:24am
Subject Re: Cartoon Characters

I agree that cartoon shows have always been divided for

the sexes and will probably continue to be in the

future. While some cartoons for girls do have the girls

being heroes such as "Sailor Moon" or "Powerpuff Girls"

the shows still have the female heroes in skirts and

pastel colors, a trademark for little girls and

clothing. Other cartoons do have strong female

characters but for the most part the females tend to be

the ones who need saving or are the observers. I think

one way things may change is if there are more female

cartoonists that create strong and independent female

characters for young girls to watch. Maybe with a slow

transition of strong female characters such as the

leading female role on "Alias", we will see a move

towards female characters as leaders not followers.

Message no. 15[Branch from no. 12]
Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:22pm
Subject Re: Cartoon Characters

I also read the Smurfette article and I agree that

sexism will never be completely eliminated in our

culture because the media, mainly television is so much

a part of our lives. T.V. reflects our culture and

culture affects T.V.

It seems that in a way sexism on television exists

because of the viewers demand for male dominated

characters who belittle and poke fun of female

characters. Viewers laugh and don't think twice about

it. Just this morning, while listening to the radio,

the dj made female sexist jokes while eveone in the back

just laughed.

Atleast now, there ae more and more shows that have

female lead characters that are intelligent and capable

of holding their own instead of waiting for a guy to

rescue them. In this way, I do think we are headed in

the right direction.

Message no. 44[Branch from no. 12]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:13pm
Subject Re: Cartoon Characters

I agree on the idea that television will be involved

sexism forever. When I was a little kid, I tended to

watch cartoons that were made for boys. It's just

because I simply wanted to be a boy and those boy

characters gave me the idea of what a hero is.

In the current situation, those TV programes in which

male characters overbumber females' and actually that

has effects on children in terms of gender stereotypes.

I wonder if that's caused by the number of people who

prefer those programs, or the number of male workers

behind the scene.

Message no. 179[Branch from no. 12]
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 8:51pm
Subject Re: Cartoon Characters

Interesting research, although I strongly disagree with

the article by Steve Sailer suggesting that Disney

movies are geared primarily towards a female audience. I

personally was an avid fan of Disney movies when I was

younger, and I have many male friends that can relate.

The reason being that Disney tends to draw its female

characters as the typical supermodel, with perfect

bodily proportions and highly attractive facial

features. The animators of Disney are obviously aware of

the effect of attractive females on the male populus; to

believe otherwise would be preposterous. Insofar as the

sexism in cartoons, I do believe that there are more

male-oriented cartoons, but I suppose this occurs only

because there is a greater tendency for males to watch

cartoons than females, although I have seen no empirical

data to support this opinion.

Message no. 204[Branch from no. 12]
Friday, February 7, 2003 9:59am
Subject Re: Cartoon Characters

After reading this response to the topic of sexism in

television characters, I tend to agree with the author:

sexism is inherent in human nature because of social

norms associated with a very early part of our lives.

The example about the cartoon "The Smurfs" shows this

through the use of its only female character, Smurfette.

Because she is the only female, it is easy to se the

traits the creator gives her that may be considered

sexist. In my own experience, I watched many male-based

cartoons as a child. I enjoyed "GI Joe," "HeMan," and

""Transformers" all of which are directed at young male

audiences and perpetuate the male bias that we are

talking about. I looked down on 'girlie' shows such as

"My Little Pony" and others because of the girl

targetted attitudes of the shows. This shows my bias,

and demonstrates that the creators of these cartoons

specifically made their cartoons for a certain audience,

be it male or female.

Message no. 460[Branch from no. 12]
Saturday, March 1, 2003 1:56pm
Subject Re: Cartoon Characters

I also looked up a few things about cartoons being

sexist. The Smurfs are probably the most sexist

cartoon. I love the smurfs, but I hate sexism. When I

was a kid I did not see this cartoon as sexist. Only

now that I am an adult and look back can I see this. I

think we need to remember that it is also somewhat

appropiate. Now let me explain. Men are visually

stimulated. So how did they illustrate this in the

smurfs - smurfette. She always wore a dress, high

heels, and long following blonde hair. This is what men

like to see. Now look at how the male characters were

illustrated. Women generally do not choose a male

partner on appearance. They look a little more into the

man, his character and employment. They all had jobs

and were pretty much identified by their jobs (handy

smurf) or their personality (brainy smurf). This is

what women look for in a male partner. So even though

the smurfs were a sexist cartoon, I believe it just

mirrored our society.

Message no. 16
Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:13pm
Subject Research message: T.V Characters and Sexism

I wasn't really looking for a specific aspect of this

topic. I just wanted to look at the general sites that

were offered concerning this topic.

I used AOL as my search engine and I used the search

terms: television characters, sexism. I had no problem

finding articles related to this topic.

I found an article called "The Portrayal of Women on

Television" by Paul Harper at this address:

http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Students/pth9601

He mentions the fact that although women and men are

about equal in the population, men outnumber women on

televison He mentions that television is sexist because

it reinforces prejudice sex-role stereotypes. These

would include the idea that women are supposed to look

very pretty, be domestic, have children and then look

after them while the man goes out to work.

Men basically have all the lead roles and are given

action-adventure roles while the majority of women are

in soap operas and situation comedies.

Message no. 19[Branch from no. 16]
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:21am
Subject Re: Research message: T.V Characters and Sexism

Hello...Just to let you know that I clicked on the link

of that article, but the the page wasn't found.

I agree that most men are the ones who portrayed in

those stereotypically masculine roles and the women are

the ones who are stereotypically portrayed in feminine

roles such as cooking, babysitting, crying over a

man...etc.

Although these sexist roles still exist, there has been

some major improvement over the years. Remember "Leave

it Beaver", "Brady Bunch", and those other corny TV

shows in which the women were just typical housewives

who subjected themselves to be the lower counterpart in

the household. Fortunately things are changing on

television and in our culture. Women on TV now can also

"beat up the bad guys" and be the heros. Thank God for

the movie "Charlie's Angels" and the TV cartoon

"Powerpuff Girls"!

Message no. 37[Branch from no. 19]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:22pm
Subject Re: Research message: T.V Characters and Sexism

Back in days women were seen as housewives. Women were

expected to stay home to take care of the children, cook

wonderful meals, and look good for their husbands.

However, we are in a different century and time. Women

are now playing different roles in our society. We are

not just housewives we are professional working women.

Message no. 24[Branch from no. 16]
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:00pm
Subject Re: Research message: T.V Characters and Sexism

I agree with what you said about tv shows reinforcing

gender stereotypes. The typical scenario is a man who

works to put food on the table for his family, while his

wife stays home and cares for the kids. That is sooo old

school. But I guess we are seeing more women in the work

force in tv shows such as Ally McBeal(yikes), and also

in reality which is a step in the right direction. We

are also seeing more agressive women emerge in shows

such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Xena(double yikes).

These shows portray women as being independent and more

assertive beings, rather than weak and feeble. And

although I would personally rather watch Real TV, I'm

sure other women out there appreciate these shows that

give us more power.

Message no. 47[Branch from no. 24]
Friday, January 24, 2003 1:26am
Subject Re: Research message: T.V Characters and Sexism

This message is in response to TV characters and Sexism

posted by Katherine Gimeno.

I agree with Katherine about how she mentions that

television reinforces prejudice sex-role stereotypes.

But I feel that television programs and movies are

starting a gradual trend in the oppsite direction, with

women taking on the lead roles. Deni stated in the

previous message about how women are showing up with

leading roles in shows such as Ally McBeal, Buffy the

Vampire Slayer and Xena. In the movie Ever After,

starring Drew Barrymore, which is a creative, realistic

remake of the Cinderella Story. Danielle, played by

Drew Barrymore, is a resourceful young woman who does

not display the typical passive femine characterstics.

An example of this takes place at the end of the movie

Danielle is being held captive. But instead of the

prince coming in to save the day, Danielle escapes from

her shackles, holds a sword to her captors neck and

demands to be set free. Just when she is leaving the

castle her prince comes riding up on his horse and tells

Danielle that he came to save her. This is just one of

the many movies that are now portraying women as strong,

and resourceful. As opposed to the traditional view

that women are helpless and always in need of a man to

come and rescue them.

Message no. 26[Branch from no. 16]
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:44pm
Subject Re: Research message: T.V Characters and Sexism

I agree with the writer of the original message and the

2 others that have responded so far that women are

delving into roles that would have never been open to

them before. I am optimistic that this trend will

continue, but I think it's important to put things into

perspective.

First of all, no woman could currently demand the huge

sums that Arnold Schwarzenegger, Vin Diesel, Keanu

Reeves, and the like can and do receive for the movies

they star in.

In addition, the actresses chosen to star in these "new

roles" add a troubling dimension. One of the movies

mentioned was "Charlie's Angels". Its stars (Cameron

Diaz, Drew Barrymore, and Lucy Liu) with their flawless

faces and figures, triumph over the villains with

martial arts and sexuality. This only reinforces the

constant bombardment that women and girls receive which

says that they must be stunningly beautiful in order to

succeed in life. While I see nothing wrong with them

using their sexuality to dominate their opponents, the

unnecessary overt sexuality in the movie affects girls

just as Cosmo does. I also think some of the movie's

dialogue makes them look stupid. And we musn't

forget...their boss is a man.

Another example of women breaking out of stereotypical

roles is Jennifer Garner in "Alias". I agree that it is

a groundbreaking role, but do you think she (just like

Charlie's Angels) was chosen for that role because of

her martial arts skills?

I agree wholeheartedly that the media is moving in the

right direction. But we can't be lulled into

complacence -- as far as "Alias" is from "Leave it to

Beaver" is how far things are from being equal.

Message no. 67[Branch from no. 16]
Friday, January 24, 2003 5:24pm
Subject Re: Research message: T.V Characters and Sexism

I want to start off by saying that I am not a proponent

of sexism nor am I a "sexist pig" of the traditional

sense, but I am admittedly at odds with accepting

equality between male and female gender roles. The

current trend in media programming has been a wave of

so-called empowerment. While this wave is a movement

away from the social norm, the line between gender roles

still remain quite clear.

Women should be afforded every opprotunity that their

male counterparts have. There's no doubt about that.

This message isn't about women's rights and

opprotunities. My concern is gender roles, afterall

where better to learn about gender roles than T.V.? It

seems to me that women, as a whole, are not satisfied

with society's portrayal of female gender roles on

television. What then is the ultimate female gender

role? What would appease the female masses?

I hope that complete equality is not the outcome women

are looking for in gender roles. Part of the allure of

women is their differences from men, in the media as

well as in real life. To blur those differences would in

turn rob women of their inherent beauty. I don't know

maybe I am a pig afterall.

Message no. 138[Branch from no. 16]
Monday, February 3, 2003 3:51pm
Subject Re: Research message: T.V Characters and Sexism

I think it's important, when looking for where and how

certain groups are exploited, to examine what does the

dominating group want? Here we're talking about women

and, while the ideal woman's profile has shifted some

since the good ol' days, her two most important

characteristics to be fulfilled remain good looks and

being subervient. Even though women may be more

empowered on television, the question remains is whether

they still must answer to a man. In terms of Buffy and

Xena and ass kicking women, they are sex objects and

they serve a purpose in that respect. They are not

leading any kind of movement of empowerment. The last

thing we should be doing is patting our patriarchy on

the back because we've evolved from "Leave It To

Beaver." With every role we observe a person in, we

need to ask ourselves if we could see the opposite sex

playing an almost identical part. It's so much deeper

than that. Pick a popular network and watch it from 8pm

to 10pm and tally up the number of times a woman was

portrayed sexually versus a man. Tally up how many

aggressive acts against women take place versus men.

Then come back to this discussion and let's go from

there.

Message no. 18
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:11am
Subject Sexism and Culture in Television

I specifically searched for Sexism and Culture in

Television and how does culture affect sexism. I used

the search phrases 'Sexism in Television' and 'Culture

and Sexism'. I didn't encounter any problems during my

online search. I used the www.google.com as my search

engine.

In this short research, I found that not only can

culture affect television, but television can also

affect our culture. We can learn to alter our culture to

change the thinking of the people our society. The

reason why sexist shows even exist is because there

still seems to be a demand for them. Sexist shows are

dominated by male characters. There is little

improvement in the past few years with movies such as

'Charlie's Angels' and other movies that portray women

just as heroic and strong as men. There are also some

TV programs such as 'Powerpuff girls' and 'TV shows that

are incorporating females in positive lead roles that

are helping to create the equilibrium among of males and

females. Incorporating females into positive lead roles

will cause some changes in society.

We need more nonsexist TV programs and movies. We need

less of 'Howard Stern', 'Who Wants to Marry a

Millionare', and those TV shows that portray women as

being weak, battered, abused, and bored housewives.

It's the year 2003 and yet television shows and movies

still need more improvement on creating a sense of

equality among males and females.

In this research, I used the online article "Sexism and

Culture in Television" by Jim Winn. The article can be

found at http://www.bluedojo.cm/papers/sexism/

 

Message no. 23[Branch from no. 18]
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 6:57pm
Subject Re: Sexism and Culture in Television

I tried the link to the address, but it didn't work. I

agree that we need more shows the portray women in a

brighter light. I've watched "Joe Millionaire" and the

main thing that it points out is that american women are

gold diggers. Personally I think it's a funny show,

because you can tell why women are portrayed that way on

television just by watching some of the women on that

show. Another show that's out right now that does give a

woman "power" but is still sexist is "The Bachelorette".

This is american culture.

Message no. 83[Branch from no. 18]
Monday, January 27, 2003 6:52pm
Subject Re: Sexism and Culture in Television

This is in response to Marissa Kuroda on Sexism and

culture in television. I agree that there is a demand

for sexism in television shows because that is what gets

to viewer interested. I really have no first hand

experiences with other cultures and what they have on

television verses what we see here in America. I wonder

is if Japan, Australia, and Germany for example have the

same amount of sexism as the America. I would guess that

because there is so much oppression in South Africa on

women that perhaps that is a reason why there are less

women in their television productions.

Message no. 648[Branch from no. 18]
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:27pm
Subject Re: Sexism and Culture in Television

I think that the reason why sexist television exists is

actually quite simple. That is what sells. As sick and

perverted as it is...sexist television is what

entertains and sells. Even women seem to still watch

this sexist television, in spite of their constant

protests against it.

simple and sick equasion...yet totally real:

sexist TV = ratings = $$ for network officials

Message no. 25
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:24pm
Subject Kid's shows and sexism

I used the yahoo search engine for the topic of tv

characters and sexism. The terms I used in my search

were sexism, children, and tv. I had no problems with

this search.

http://ibelgique.ifrance.com/sociomedia/THE%20INFLUENCE%20OF%20TELEVISION%20ON%20CHILDREN.htm

 

On this site the author mentions that the Public

Broadcasting System(PBS), which features children's

programming, has consistently shown substantially more

males than females on their programs. She also mentioned

something kind of disturbing that I never really noticed

before. She pointed out that the Muppets were

overwhelmingly male characters with the exception of

maybe 1 or 2 including Miss Piggy, who is voiced by a

man. Also, it isn't very comforting to know that they

made the female a fat pig. I never really liked the

Muppets anyways...but I was totally into Scooby Doo and

the Flintstones :)

Message no. 27[Branch from no. 25]
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:57pm
Subject Re: Kid's shows and sexism

This is a comment message for Deni Ramiro on

"Television characters and sexism":

I have noticed that much of children's programs are

dominated by male characters and though I was

surprised at first, I am enlightened that you pointed

out the fact that The Muppets only casted 1 or 2 female

characters and that Ms. Piggy was voiced by a man.

Besides The Muppets, I also thought of Sesame Street

and the cartoon series Winne the Pooh. Look at the more

prominent characters on the shows--Big Bird, Elmo,

Oscar the Grouch, the Count, Bert and Ernie, and the

Cookie Monster on Sesame Street; Winnie the Pooh,

Piglet, Eeyore, and Tigger--they're all males!

Although we can think of many more examples that

illustrate how sexist these programs are, we cannot

deny their popularity. (Have you noticed the different

kinds of Elmo dolls they come up with each year?) Would

it really make a difference if these shows added more

female characters? I think not; probably because they

have already established themselves and have had

reliable numbers of followers throughout the years.

But then again, these shows/characters were made at

least twenty years ago and I have begun to notice that

there are more children's shows that have females in

the limelight now. Yes, the PowerPuff girls, Kim

Possible (who has a male side-kick), Penny Proud (from

the Proud Family), Sailor Moon, etc.

There will always be evidence for children's programs

being sexist and while steps are being taken to

alleviate that, all I can wonder is, "Do kids even

care?" It's not a matter of them noticing how sexist

shows are. Afterall, I would think that these shows'

creative groups put in a lot of time and thought into

them, testing out different ideas they hope would

attract children and keep their attention for a long

time. If the children "get hooked on them," then

congratulations to the masterminds. They did their

jobs, even if the shows are sexist.

Message no. 31[Branch from no. 25]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:18am
Subject Re: Kid's shows and sexism

I didn't realize that PBC consistently shown more males

than females on their programs, either. How

interesting! In any case, I belive that television has

a great influence on children regarding their attitudes

toward gender roles. Television could provide

stereotyped and biased messages to children about the

gender role. As I was grew up in Japan, I remember

there were many "hero" types of Kid's TV shows. (Kikaida

is one of them) But I didn't like them because all the

heros were boy charactors.

Message no. 34[Branch from no. 31]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:11pm
Subject Re: Kid's shows and sexism

This is a comment message to Emiko Kaylor's comment

message on "Kid's shows and sexism":

That's true! I definitely agree with you that television

has a big influence on children's attitudes toward

gender roles. Television already provides stereotyped

and biased messages to children about these roles.

Unfortunately, I don't think there will be major changes

in television soon to make children's programs less

sexist.

Society as a whole places such emphasis on the gender

roles that even if children's programs became less

sexist, family, friends, and peers would still

perpetuate gender roles.

Message no. 99[Branch from no. 34]
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:26pm
Subject Re: Kid's shows and sexism

I agree that television plays an important role in

shaping children's attitudes toward gender roles, but I

think family and school have an even greater influence

on their concept of gender roles. Say for example, if a

little boy cries, mommy will say "boys don't cry", or

his siblings might tell him "only girls cry".

Television is, most of time, reflecting what reality is,

so maybe it'll be fair to say that television is being

influenced by what real life is.

Message no. 46[Branch from no. 25]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:25pm
Subject Re: Kid's shows and sexism

After reading your message, I thought to myself, "That's

right! The muppets did have mainly male characters!"

It is something I never noticed before. I watch a lot

of cartoons with my daughter (she's almost two, so I

regulate what she watches)and notice the ones that she

watches have mostly male characters also (Rolie Polie

Olie and Stanley on the Disney Channel). Both of the

shows have male characters as their main character. The

only other females are usually younger siblings or their

mother.

It does make me wonder why male characters are dominant

even in cartoons, because they can make the character

any way or any sex that it wants to, but it chose to

have mainly male characters. For children though, I

don't think that it has too much affect on them, but as

they are older, I am sure that they learn to identify

with the characters.

Message no. 60[Branch from no. 25]
Friday, January 24, 2003 4:21pm
Subject Re: Kid's shows and sexism

I agree strongly with you that sexism exists in our

childrens TV programs. Your right, there are few female

cartoon characters (at least compared to the amount of

male characters)! And of the few female characters, most

if not all seem to fall victim to the harsh stereotypes

that are put on women today. It's sad, but what do you

expect? We live in a world where men dominate

everything!Of course sexism has slithered its way into

the childrens TV programs, with the sole purpose of

currupting the minds of the todays youth.

Message no. 93[Branch from no. 25]
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 6:32pm
Subject Re: Kid's shows and sexism

I found Deni's website link very interesting. The

author, Susan D. Witt says, "Television sends forceful

and compelling messages to children about the

societally-approved roles for boys and girls and men and

women. These messages are often sterotyped, biased, and

outdated yet continue to persist and influence the

behavior of children. As children continue to develop

and grow, they are exposed to more and more of gender

biases and sterotypes and thus children perpetuate

similiar unfair attitudes and behaviors."

I think that Witt helps explain WHY there may sexism in

television. Society accepts them. I accept them. Such

sexist ideas have been past down from generation to

generation.

I also think shows about "superwomen" heros like zena,

and charlie's angels help break the typical women

profession. However, those shows are still sexist.

Zena wears tight fitted clothes and Charlies angels

actresses are young and sexy. I guess they have to do

this in order to appeal to both sexes.

Message no. 118[Branch from no. 25]
Friday, January 31, 2003 2:46pm
Subject Re: Kid's shows and sexism

The television shows for kids have powerful messages in

them. although children are not able to understand the

messages they do tend to imitate them. For example i

never noticed the number of male to male ratio. it

never crossed my mind, but if you look back on the

programming and start picking out things then you start

to see a difference. wheather people are actually

affected by these cartoons or shows we will never know.

but what we do know is that many behaviors that a child

sees on tv are imitaded and can have life long effects.

Message no. 132[Branch from no. 25]
Sunday, February 2, 2003 10:33am
Subject Re: Kid's shows and sexism

Last year I did a report on children's media and I found

that from birth children learn a significant amount of

gender typing from the media. Programs still continue

to underrepresent females, to display males and females

in stereotyped activities, and portray female's bodies

different from males.

Message no. 59
Friday, January 24, 2003 4:01pm
Subject TV sexism

I was specifically searching for information on the

claim that the porportion of male characters on TV make

children's shows sexist. I started off by using Lycos as

my search engine. After having little to no luck I

decided to broaden my range of searching to sexism and

cartoons (I figure cartoons are the main programs

children watch). I was having a little more luck using

terms such as: cartoons sexism; tv programs sexism;

sexist tv. I decided to try the search engine MSN. MSN

was a lot easier to use. Using the same key words I was

able to acess more information pertaining to this topic.

Here are a few web sites I used in my search:

http://www.sesameworkshop.org/sesamestreet/?scrollerId=zoe

http://www.bluedojo.com/papers/sexism/

http://www.english.wayne.edu/~calice/Ferguson/smurf.html

Much to my suprise I found valid information that can be

evidence to the claim that cartoons are sexist. I found

that many cartoons have no or a very limited number of

female characters on them. Ex.(A couple of my favorite

cartoons growing up) Seseame Street-Zoe Smurfs -

smurfette I found that not only are many of these

childrens programs sexist, but they are also very

stereotypical. The evidence I found against this topic

is was very limited, but there is good news for todays

children.We are now in the days of Power Puff Girls!

This cartoon demenstrates girl power (well, it's a good

place to start).There are also a number of new cartoons

that have come out in recent years that have more female

characters, but I'm not sure when or if females

characters can catch up to the male cartoon population.

Message no. 104[Branch from no. 59]
Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:45pm
Subject Re: TV sexism

Aloha Tamara, I remember watching Seseme street all the

time when I was younger and truly enjoyed it (Grover was

my boy). I didn't realize the absence of women though,

there weren't many puppets who were girls but I do

remember a lot of the human actors being female. Big

Bird was always a mystery to me to which gender he

represented. I watched a special program the other night

which revealed some very interesting facets of Seseme

Street such as: Oscar being a grouch and everyone

treating him like he was a mean guy. He lived in a

trash can for crying out loud, anyone would be grouchy

if they lived in a trash can. It gave evidence of

underlying motives of some people concerning the

mistreatment of homeless people. He was a rather dirct

stereotype of a grumpy homeless guy.Another theory

proposed was that The Count was a pimp! Always dressed

in a suit, and continually counting(his money), that

cookie monster is a druggy, his eyes aren't cukoo just

from regular old cookies (those cookies are laced!),and

that Snuffalupagus was always stoned evidenced by his

slow and slurry speech. There were others but I can't

remember them right now. I don't know how watching that

program affected me because I'm not mean to homeless

people, not a druggy and definitly not a pimp. I think

it may have just prepared and warmed up my young mind to

the millions of sterotypical representations I will

encounter throughout the rest of my television viewing.

I will not and do not blame Snufalupagus for any habits

I may have aquired from him. He's a good guy! Bye.

Message no. 66
Friday, January 24, 2003 5:10pm
Subject Research message: Television and sexism

I was looking for television characters and sexism and

searched in msn.com under the phrase "television and

sexism". I then got several results and looked under

the link that said "Sexism and Culture". The link took

me to www.bludedojo.com/papers/sexism.

This article was called "Sexism and Culture in

Television" which stated that our culture demands for

sexism. Sexism makes the show more believable. For an

example, male characters believably exemplify strength

and endurance much more than female characters could.

Men are more qualified to play some parts than women are

for this reason.

An example the writer used was the show, Walker: Texas

Ranger. The character of the Texas Ranger had to be

played by a male character to make the "kick-butt"

scenes more believeable. Having a woman do Tae Kwan Do

and wiping out all the bad guys would not believeable.

The writer also said that to include a female character

as a hero is to change society's way of thinking. Many

times, shows flop because they try too hard to push

women to play characters of heroes. We need to slowly

do this and slowly have society adapt.

Message no. 68[Branch from no. 66]
Friday, January 24, 2003 6:52pm
Subject Re: Research message: Television and sexism

This was an interesting post inasmuch as it comes

from a different stance than most of the others in this

category. Having looked through the other posts, it

seems clear that most people would agree television is

sexist. This would seem to suggest that progress can be

made not by filling what would be a male role with a

female, or blindly adding female parts, but rather by

looking more realisticlly at the role anyone should be

playing. That is, sexism works both ways. I liked

that the walker texas ranger example was given, though

to be fair, Chuck Norris is not, himself, particularly

believable, so would any other actress/actor do more

harm? What comes out of this post for me, though it

is not really the point, is that sexism on television,

as elsewhere, is a problem with which we need to deal,

but that it is important to do so carefully.

Message no. 96[Branch from no. 66]
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:12pm
Subject Re: Research message: Television and sexism

Reply to research message:

It is true that television tends to only make men the

hero. There are a couple of shows that have done pretty

well, for instance the shows "Xena the warrior princess"

and "Alias." Both shows have women defeating the bad

guys. Of course there is also sexism in these two shows

because the women sometimes are playing more of a sexual

figure than a hero. I'm not sure if it's discrimination

towards women, but in general, any type of show that

gives women the power and title of a hero will always

glorify her as a woman that is sexually alluring. This

is what our society expects.

Message no. 74
Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:37pm
Subject Research Message: the impact of television

a). After I searched the articles about television

characters' influence on children, I started looking for

the opposite opinion or evidence against ghe claim that

male characters on television makes children's program

sexist. Unfortunately, I could not find any research

findings or evidences that proved the opposite opinion.

 

However, there was the research that showed, viewing

television has the strong influence on children in terms

of gender-role as children, but not adult role.

b). TV characters influence on children, TV impact of

sexism on children, psychological impact of TV

characters, relationship: TV characters and sexism, no

impact: viewing television,

c). The problems occured when the articles mentioned the

specific cartoons, and dramas. Although, I've been here

for three years, I've not get accustomed with TV

programs here ,yet. That means, the only articles I was

motivated to read were the conclusions or results of the

surveies and researches.

d). I used "Google" and "Ask jeeves".

e).

http://www.english.wayne.edu/~calice/Ferguson/smurf.html

http://www.thefword.org.uk/review/tv/ally.live?skin=textonly

http://www.richmond.edu/~psych/tvgenethab.html

http://www.studentcentral.co.uk/coursework/essay/2717.html

http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Student/pth9601.html

f). Basically what I found was the facts that those TV

programs creat sex/gender role streotyping and TV

characters are overnumbered by men. I found the

interesting graphs as follows.

Gender representation of sport articles in the "The

Times" .

the number of articles Percent(%) of total Men

2632 88.5 Women 291

10.9 Mixed 15 0.6

 

 

 

Message no. 82
Monday, January 27, 2003 5:17pm
Subject Research Message

I used MSN.com again to find information on television

characters and sexism. The phrase used was television

characters and sexist children programs. The website is:

http://www2.lewisu.edu/~gazianjo/influence_of_television_on_child.htm

The author Susan Witt in "The influence of television on

children's gender role socialization," states that since

the 1950's, about two thirds of the characters on

television programs are male. And also that children's

programs on PBS showed fewer females than males.

The article also states that sexism is even among the

Muppets, because most of the muppet characters have male

names or male voices.

 

Message no. 85
Monday, January 27, 2003 8:12pm
Subject Future of Kids' Stereotypes Looks Bleak

I used Yahoo to help with my search and when I typed in

'gender roles' for another topic, I was given so many

sites that some of them ended up working for this

discussion as well. Www.apa.org/releases/cartoon.html

is an interesting site because it shows stark statistics

in today's programming with a sexist agenda geared

toward children. While the percentage of female cartoon

characters may have increased slightly, their 'station'

really has not changed. They are still the nurtures and

the men are still the violent warriors. Not only is

this detrimental for young girls, teaching such traits

as co-dependance in lieu of self-reliance, but it only

furthers the the already rampant violent nature in

television and all the dangers which accompanies it. If

the nature of stereotypical programming has changed so

little over the past twenty years (of the past forty

years which have been critical in the civil right

movement), it seems like wasted energy to expect any

difference in programming for our children to come. I

was not actually looking to find proof of children's

stereotypes when I began this search, but with what I

have read, and being that childrens' minds are the most

influential, then it's easy to believe that similar

predispositions filter through adult-aimed airwaves.

Message no. 194[Branch from no. 85]
Thursday, February 6, 2003 6:46pm
Subject Re: Future of Kids' Stereotypes Looks Bleak

I agree that male cartoon characters are usually

portrayed as the more violent characters and the females

are the nurturers. Even if the females are portrayed

as superheroes, their sex appeal is maximized. I think

that children receive these messages and try to act in

the same ways. Little boys and girls definitely have

gender roles and play behavior from a young age, which

is probably highly influenced by the television they

watch. The future of these children is concerning

when females learn to be dependent on males from the

stereotypes they see on television.

Message no. 395[Branch from no. 85]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:43pm
Subject Re: Future of Kids' Stereotypes Looks Bleak

i believe that roles in television play a big role in

how children develop. The visions we see on tv give an

example of the values that our society has. We see

women as care givers and men as violent warriors. until

we change how society views women and men in general i

foresee no changes in the programming of tv shows for

children.

Message no. 150
Monday, February 3, 2003 11:09pm
Subject Research message: "Male Characters on Television"

For this research topic I was interested in finding out

what influence the dominance of male characters has on

the development of children. I used MSN with the search

terms "male characters on television". I came up with

the following sites:

www2.lewisu.edu/~gazianjo/influence_of_television_on_child.htm

and

www.ifrance.com/sociomedia/THE%20INFLUENCE%20OF%20TELEVISION%20ON%20CH.

The search itself went well and basically what I found

was what one might guess about male characters on

television. For one, they make up the majority of

television programming. And two, women's roles are

defined by their relationships with men. It was that

second finding that I found profound. One of the web

sites actually broke down the average hours spent by

children in front of the tv and how that related to the

male and female stereotypes they learn.

Message no. 151
Monday, February 3, 2003 11:26pm
Subject Research message: "Sexist Jokes and Men"

For this week's topic I focused on how sexist jokes

might affect men and women. I used MSN with the search

phrase "sexist jokes" which produced an endless list of

joke sites. I then tried "sexist jokes and men" which

produced much of the same. Third time was a charm though

with the phrase "sexist jokes towards women". I found an

article called "An Analysis of Sexist Humor" at the

following website:

newmedia.cgu.edu/comedy/projects/teitgesera/stfinal.htm

This article attempts to give reasons why either men or

women might find humor in jokes that degrade the

opposite sex. It did it in an interesting way though.

The author actually gave examples of several sexist

jokes interjected with literature on it's possible

causes and effects.

Message no. 184
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 11:19pm
Subject culture and television

The topic I was looking for was culture and television.

I used the yahoo.com search engine I had no problems

finding this site. The phrases I used was sexism in

television, culture. http://bluedojo.com/papers/sexism/

The things I learned from this article was that

television and our culture are directly linked. These

are two things that go hand in hand. Television

influences the values of our society and the values of

society are shown to us through the television. The

values of our society are evident through the media and

television shows. Our society is a male dominated

culture in which females are trying to make a name for

themselves. This is evident through the television

shows as we see more women on t.v. that are playing

stronger roles. Although they are no where they should

be time is changing and with it is our culture and

television programming.

Message no. 402[Branch from no. 184]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 5:41pm
Subject Re: culture and television

I liked the article you've chosen. It completely

explains how our society influcences teleivsion. I

agree with you that television and culture go hand in

hand. It's interesting to see that there are more shows

with stronger women, but I still think there needs to

more. Many shows that are male dominated portray women

as helpless and needy. They should put strong female

characters in these shows so it can seem more realistic.

I also agree with you that as society changes our

television shows will also change.

Message no. 185
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 11:28pm
Subject culture and television

The topic I was looking for was culture and television.

I used the yahoo.com search engine I had no problems

finding this site. The phrases I used was sexism in

television, culture. http://bluedojo.com/papers/sexism/

The things I learned from this article was that

television and our culture are directly linked. These

are two things that go hand in hand. Television

influences the values of our society and the values of

society are shown to us through the television. Our

culture as many others is male dominated and we see that

in our programming. As our society changes where women

are becoming stronger and stronger and we see this as

roles in comedy shows. The women are no where near

balanced but they are letting themselves be known and

society, culture and television programming will change

with time.

Message no. 467[Branch from no. 185]
Sunday, March 2, 2003 12:10pm
Subject Re: culture and television

I found your posting interesting as well as sadly true.

What can we really expect from T.V.? We live in a male

dominated culture that views woman as sex objects, and

our TV programming is a direct reflectoin of it. Sad but

true.

Message no. 613[Branch from no. 185]
Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:27pm
Subject Re: culture and television

I think that it is really good that women are becoming

more stronger in television programs. Women need to

have a stronger role these days because television

really influences are children and society. Children

should learn that women and men are both equal and

capable of fufilling the same role, therefore, the media

should recognize women as also having a superior and

more powerful role.

Message no. 227
Saturday, February 8, 2003 9:58pm
Subject televison and sexism

For this research I was searching for anything that had

to do with television characters and sexism. The search

terms I used was television and sexism. I did not have

any problems with this search because there were a lot

of information on this topic. The search engine that I

used to find my information was google. The web address

for the site I found is:

http://bluedojo.com/papers/sexism/

In this article I found that the media has a lot of

gender typing. Television programs still continue to

underrepresent females and to display males and females

in stereotyped activities. Current television programs

have more leading characters played by males than

females. I am appaled after reading this article. I

feel that the media reflects how women are displayed in

reality: they are often dominated by men and given

different expectations. Even though women today have

professional careers, they are still steretyped to play

the role as housewife and caregiver. The media also

reflects how women are seen to be more superficial than

intelligent. In the media and reality a woman's

appearance and beauty seems to be more important than

their intelligence, which then begins to affect their

self-image.

Message no. 272
Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:42pm
Subject Women behind the scenes

Once again I had to default my attempts to use other

search engines and again utilized ol'faithful Yahoo.com.

I wanted to find feminists points of view so the search

words I used were: television, sexism, representation,

and feminist. There were plenty of articles but the ones

I picked are listed below:

www.frontpagemag.com/articles/printable.asp?ID=119

www.aber.ac.uk/media/students/pth9601.html

I have been aware of stereotypical representation of

gender roles portrayed on television so it was no

surprise being told this by both websites. There were

intersting factoids which did enlighten my comprehension

such as: the number of women working behind the scenes

is greatly misrepresented by those who work on it, that

only 6.2% of film directors last year were women, on

primetime tv women account for 28% of the roles, they

get only 38% of screen actor guild roles and that there

is a drastic decline of women acting beyond their

forties. This is all detailed in the first website along

with some positive trends such as: the chairperson of

Universal Pictures and the CEO of Paramount Pictures are

both women and other powerful positions are held by

women at ABC, CBS, FOX and UPN. It seems as if women are

well represented behind the sceens but not well

on-screen.The second website just offered an essay on

the representation of stereotypical gender roles on

television. It gave evidence such as the representation

of women as being emotional, fearful and compassionate

while male actors were told to be strong, hard working

and aggressive. It is my contention that these

characteristics are such common attributes given to

actors throughout the years that it has gone virtually

unnoticed to the common television viewer through

habituation, so that when a role comes up which defies

these traditional gender roles people quickly notice. I

also feel that these representations are so widely

accepted because of biological as well as envirornmental

influences. Men are strong and bring home the bread

while women are supportive and loving and are the reward

which makes the man's life worth living. These values

are instilled at a young age and have been for many

generations.

Message no. 303
Sunday, February 16, 2003 9:39am
Subject Reply to LoveC's "Cartoon Characters"

I remember growing up and watching smurfs as one of my

favorite morning shows. I never really thought about

smurfette as some sex symbol, but I'll admit that when I

grew older and would chance upon the show I would think

that smurfette must really get it, being the only female

in a mushroom village of males.

I think cartoons back in the day had more of a

wholesome story line to it; in cartoons for today's

generation its all about explosions and kung-fu

fighting, minus the plot. This lack of story line does

more damage to the budding mind than a little blue chick.

Message no. 305
Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:25am
Subject The Female Character

I figure that every person has their own opinion

about this topic, if they've taken the time to think

about it. But, I decided to search for opinions in the

academic field about the role that the female has in

today's television. I typed in gender role + television

in Google.

In the American Psychology Association's website,

www.apa.org/releases/cartoon/html, the article talked

about the majority of male characters who all held some

type of powerful, prestigious position in the story

line; while the few female characters were subserviate

helpers.

I found some information worth noting in the

American Academy of Pediatrics website,

www.aap.org/advocacy/ sign298.htm. This long article

stated that the few women who get a strong role in a

show, usually are portrayed as the invincible type.

Also, that as people and especially children watch more

and more television gender role stereotype behavior will

increase.

I'm not sure of my statistics, but I remember boys

being more into television and cartoons than girls were;

even during our generation' childhood,when there were a

lot of cartoons and shows directed toward the female

audience. I think it's just that the television has to

target the largest audience. If males are watching more

t.v. than girls, which seems obvious because of the male

orientation of television, than girls are going to take

a back seat to the hero's of the story.

Message no. 420
Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:27pm
Subject Impact of TV on gender roles

I was interested to see if male characters still

dominated the television programs or if female

characters have changed in any way. I search using

Yahoo, under the media section. I tried using Google

first, but I just didn‚t like the outcomes. Using

Yahoo, I had no major problems, only for that fact that

I had to look for a good website. I used the phrase „TV

and gender roles.

The website that was good and one that I could agree

with was

maskin.bxscience.edu/tat/50s/50swomencurrent.html. The

author says how slowly over the years, the negative

representations of women have slowly been developing.

From a stereotyped women of being in a domestic setting,

the „heroineš of the home, whose only ambition was to be

a good mother and dutiful wife, made a transition to

women being intelligent, independent, and self-reliant

to solve problems. Some movies that show these new

characteristics are „Charlie‚s Angelsš, „Ally McBealš,

and „Murphy Brownš.

There's alot of movies that depicted women with having

the same attributes as men, and that's how it should be.

Message no. 774[Branch from no. 420]
Thursday, April 10, 2003 12:08am
Subject Re: Impact of TV on gender roles

My thoughts about gender roles and how they have

changed.

The biggest event that changed American women's lives

was WWII. During WWII, women were invited to work

outside of home, otherwise "forbidden". Many of these

women were called to help with the developments of war

because many men were enlisted in the service

(machinery, factory labor, welding) all jobs, that men

only performed before the war.

After the war ended, women were expected to go back to

being the housewife and mother. But often this was not

the case.

Women were seeking equal rights and liberation which was

slowly entering the hearts of all americans homes.

The main question that I want to raise is that with the

new freedoms and rights of women and the rise of mothers

entering the workforce, do you think it is better that

mother's work? Don't you think that mother's should

stay home and take care of the kids rather then relying

on babysitters and so on?

Message no. 454

Friday, February 28, 2003 10:03pm
Subject TV sexism does and does not exist?

The search engine I used was MSN. First the key words I

used were: television and sexism to find an article that

supported this view. The site I found was:

http://www.bluedojo.com/papers/sexism/ This article says

that television affects culture and culture affects

television because they have both become intertwined. I

thought an interesting view on why there is sexism on TV

was "sexism exists on television only because it exists

in our culture." I think this article had many valid

points such as there is sexism because many viewers want

to see sex on TV. An interesting way to eliminate or

lessen sexism on TV suggested by the author is to

incorporate strong females in shows. I found a humorous

article in support that Bugs Bunny is not a sexist

character. I used MNS, search words Television is not

sexist. The address is:

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/Aug1999/082399/bugs082399.htm

A Canadian woman was upset over an episode where bugs

bunny escapes a witch with magic powder and walks off

into the sunset with a beautiful female rabbit and he

comments, "Ah sure, I know! But aren't they all witches

inside?'' The Canadian Broadcasting Standards Council

had rejected her complaint and request to apologize to

all female viewers. Saying that the female character

was actually portrayed in a "strong light."

Message no. 458
Saturday, March 1, 2003 1:31pm
Subject TV Characters & Sexism

After researching this extensively for my bibliography

report I have a few questions. I thought b/c our

society is in the 21st century I was not going to find a

big difference. Wow - was I wrong. I thought for sure

that the kiddie cartoons would be less sexist. Boy was

I wrong. I found that the proportion of male characters

outnumbers the female characters by 4:1 ratio. This

comes from a website that is from the APA. Check it

out: http://www.apa.org/releases/cartoon.html.

When I was a kid we watched the Smurfs. Now looking

back at this cartoon, it is probably more sexist than

any other cartoon. In smurfville, there is only 1

female, named smurfette. All the other male charcters

are label with a job in their title like: brainy smurf,

handy smurf, papa smurf and jokey smurf. And she always

is wearing a dress and high heels with blonde hair. Now

if that is not the typical man's dream image of a woman

I do not know what is. I found 2 seperate articles on

this.

http://www.mushroomvillage.com/smurfs-article014.html

http://www.engl.virginia.edu/courses/enwr1013/public_html/Mariruth/mpg5a2.html

This website stated that since the 1980's cartoonists

have been trying to draw characters as genderless as

possible,

http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_01.21.93/NEWS/nec0121.htm

 

In my search I used google as my search engine. This

search was a little more difficult. I played a lot with

the terms; sexist, cartoon characters, male cartoon

characters, and female cartoon characters. When I used

the terms female and male cartoon characters I got the

results I was looking for.

Message no. 534[Branch from no. 458]
Thursday, March 13, 2003 9:54pm
Subject Re: TV Characters & Sexism

It is true that the smurf's contain a high level of

sexism within the show but then again look at all of the

cartoons that were made in the 60's and 70's. Scooby

Doo for example is a prime candidate for this

discussion. Notice how whenever anything goes wrong

that it is always Fred who has to make the courageous

rescue or that when something else goes wrong and

someone needs to be rescued that it is always one of the

girls who is in distress. This is a reinforcement that

girls should always be the damsell in distress and that

they have no means of powering themselves through the

situation. It is also true that the number of male

characters on the show do ration at 4 to 1 and even

someimes more than that. The thing that is most

disturbing about these staticstics is that these

programs provide a sexist view through the actions and

relations of the characters, incorporated with the gross

ratios. Since we are now in an age that promotes

equality between the sexes, it is inevitable that we

find discrepencies throught everything we obsevrve. But

the shocking thing is the prevelance at which these

infraction occur. Only in shows whos direct content was

meant not for the show to offend will not, because

almost all of these shows carry with them some form of

societal meaning at the time in which they were made.

This means the only way to solve this is to get rid of

all of the shows we watch now and create new, PC,

television programing.

Message no. 674[Branch from no. 458]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 9:11pm
Subject Re: TV Characters & Sexism

i agree that when looking back on television shows that

we used to love we see things in a different light. Its

funny how we do not become aware of things until we get

much older. It teaches us a good lesson of how we thing

of things now and how will we see these things when we

look back on them in 10 years.

Message no. 616
Wednesday, March 26, 2003 10:12pm
Subject Children's programs

My focus was to see if there is sexism in children's

programs due to the domination of male characters. I

used the same search engine for both articles

http:///www.skworm.com and phrase: male character's in

children's programs; for both articles. No problems

occured, and I got results right away.

I found a paper written about how television is thought

to influence gender roles for children. It discusses

how even a show such as the Muppets displays sexism by

using all male voices for the characters. The paper

also found that Saturday morning cartoons had more males

in the shows and they played most of the lead roles.

But it states that boys are given precendence over girls

because boys make up 53% of the Saturday viewing

audience.

http://www.ibelgique.ifrance.com/sociomedia/THE%20INFLUENCE%20OF%20TELEVISION%20ON%20CHILDREN.htm

 

Another article I found was a contrast to the first. It

seems like a review for Katha Pollitt's essay on "The

Smurfette Principle," which is about a bunch of males

with only one female. Pollitt disagrees with children's

television shows because of sexism. The review goes on

to say that Pollitt doesn't have any evidence or

statistics as to why "kids pick up on the sexism in the

children's culture." Another thing the review states is

that Pollitt doesn't want to end sexism in children's

programs, but instead wants to promote female dominance.

http://www.bluedojo.com/papers/sexism

The articles both show different sides to the conflict

and pose good reasons to support either, so you be the

judge.

Message no. 675[Branch from no. 616]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 9:15pm
Subject Re: Children's programs

in our society the sexist roles are taught to us at a

you ng age. Television influences the values of our

society and the values of society are shown to us

through the television. Thevalues of our society are

evident through the media and television shows. Our

society is a male dominated culture in which females are

trying to make a name for themselves. This is evident

through the television shows as we see more women on

t.v. that are playing stronger roles. Although they are

no where they should be time is changing and with it is

our culture and television programming.

Message no. 631
Saturday, March 29, 2003 3:51pm
Subject Television characters and sexism

I looked up sexist television characters on

www.yahoo.com. I found an article at this website:

http://www.bluedojo.com/papers/sexism/ This article

talks about a connection between our culture and sexism

on television and how there is a demand for sexist

television shows. There are books that can be

referenced that give more information on the topic. It

also talks about how males are mostly portrayed as the

heroes in children‚s television and females are the ones

that need to be saved. It goes on to say that more

studies need to be done to say for sure that these

sexist television programs are affecting children. This

could be done through cross-cultural studies. This

article shows both sides of the argument. Sexist

television shows may be affecting children, but on the

other hand, men are genetically different which may be

why they are portrayed as the stronger sex, more capable

of being the ones to „saveš others or the world in the

television shows. The other good article I found is at

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/kamimura/130/thesis/litrev.html.

This mainly has to do with commercials, but also brings

up good points on the subject.

Message no. 688
Friday, April 4, 2003 12:40am
Subject tv sexism

using the terms tv sexism i found a site on google

explaining about current issues in television sexism and

its depiction of male and female roles.

http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/feb98/tv.html

The article is looking at a television station in canada

called bbc2. its trying to show how women in television

are pushed in the backgrounds and given roles that show

off traditional female roles. This causes a problem in

societies because it doesnt get the traditional

perception out of the heads of the countries youth. If

each generation keeps making the mistakes of the past

then nothing will ever change. The traditional roles

are sold to us on television then we expect these things

out of woman as the norm. Is there a way to change?

sure by redefining the role of woman to encompass more

skills and abilities and not portray them as housewives

who love nothing better than to cook and clean.

Message no. 691
Friday, April 4, 2003 7:07am
Subject Males and females on TV, sexism?

I researched what the possible effects of having a

disproportionatly large amount of male characters on TV.

I used Msn and Google, Google provided me with one more

response than Msn.

I first searched for "male television characters", but

this did not give me responsed that I desired, so I

added sexism, and "Male television characters"+sexism

produced better results.

The site:

http://otal.umd.edu/~vg/jpf96/jp08/bionic2.html was a

summary of a television show and the messages it

conveyed, including sexism. The second site

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m2294/5-6_40/55082333/print.jhtml

I found was an article discussing a study on TV

characters, male and female, and the effect of

characters on the audience.

The males and the females on the first show analyzed

both held sterotypical roles; even when the female was

supposedly a superhero character the male usually

stepped in to help or take credit. This show could lead

children to falsely conclude that women always need a

mans help in certain areas. The study from the second

site said that "...older children and young adolescents

spend almost 25% of their awake time watching

television" The fact that so much of this age groups

time is spent watching TV is a good indicator that much

of what the younger age groups beleive about the world,

and men and women is based on what the TV decided to

show them. The study reveals that "...relatively few

prime-time TV characters were overweight (12%) and

under-represented the proportion of overweight

individuals in the general population...", which

certainly leads many young girls to percieve their own

body image as unnacptable; they "need" to be like the

girls they see on TV.

Message no. 729
Sunday, April 6, 2003 2:35pm
Subject National Organization for Women

while looking for this topic, i stumbled accross this

site: http://www.now.org/nnt/summer-2000/falllineup.html

it is of the NOW (National Organization for Women). it

details the major primetime tv networks and how they

help, or don't help, the cause of equal rights and non

sexist (feminine) tv shows.

this may be my own synical view, but i just find it

funny that there are people out there who devote their

entire days to watching TV (okay, maybe just their

entire nights, since it was primetime) to make sure that

the shows are not sexist, and that they address female

views as well. i repeat, people...ITS ENTERTAINMENT!!!

have we gotten so self serving that we forget to step

back and look at what teh real purpose is? forcing tv

networks to create shows that are pleasing to

"feminists" but end up bombing on the "ratings" is

rediculous. i agree that we need to be conscious of TV

content and make sure it is non-offensive, and

representative of actual people. HOWEVER...we also need

to realize that if it isn't entertaining, or informative

in the case of the news, it shouldn't belong on

TV...plain and simple.

RELAX!!!

Message no. 748
Monday, April 7, 2003 8:42pm
Subject sexist society

I did my search today on the topic of television

charcters and sexism. I used Google and found no

problems at all. The key words that I used were

"television characters and sexism". I instantly found a

web site that helped:

http://www.bluedojo.com/papers/sexism The article was

written by Jim Winn and was entitled "Sexism and Culture

in Television". The paper was very interesting in that

it noted the symbiotic relationship between culture and

television. The reason that television characters and

programs are sexist is that our culture creates the need

for these programs and characters. However, television

also affects our views on sexism and, therefore can

alter our perceptions. Thus, both television and

culture contribute to the prolongation of sexism in our

society. Winn also gives examples of two television

programs with different lead characters. "Walker, Texas

Ranger" is the first show with a male lead character

(Chuck Norris). The author uses this show as an example

of why our culture demands sexist programs. Our public

would not believe a female lead character that beats up

all the bad guys like Chuckl Norris. The second show

features a female lead character--Katherine Janeway. It

is entitled "Star Trek: Voyager". Winn uses this show

as an example of how we can help to change our culture's

perspectives on sexism. By featuring more female lead

characters on television, we can help to change our

sexist society.

Message no. 787
Friday, April 11, 2003 3:01pm
Subject sexism and sexuality in advertising

A. Today I searched for new information about sexism in

advertising to add into my bibliography report.

B. The phases I used: sexism and advertising, sex in

ads, sexism

C. While I was searching for this topic, I found it

very difficult to find information to argue the other

side. Most of the information I've been reading only

argues one side: that sexism in ads can cause distorted

ideas about how a person should look.

D. The search engine I used was: Skworm.com I don't

care to use this search engine but I thought I may help

me find something new :)

E. The web address of one article I read:

www.personal.kent.edu/~glhanson/readings/advertising/womeninads.htm

F. One of the interesting things that I found while I

was reading this article titled, "sexism and sexuality

in advertising" By Michael F. Jacobsen and Laurie Anne

Mazur was that it gives a historical perspective of how

the ideas of an ideal women's body has changed within 80

years (1920-2003). I found this to be very useful

because it allows the readers to understand that "thin

was not in" which seems to be the ideal body type now.

However, no matter what year it is, apperance means a

lot in advertising.

Here are some of the quotes that I found in this article

to be beneficial for my bibliography report:

1. "many products are pitched with explicit sexual

imagery that borders on pornography.. such ideas of

women reinforces stereotypes of women as sex objects and

may contribute to violence against women.

2. "Everywhere we turn, advertisments tell us what it

means to be a desirable man or women"

Overall, I think this is an excellent webpage because it

allows the readers to get a sense how cultures and ideas

may change over short periods of time. Plus, I think

people often mistake life right now is and was the same

20 years ago.

 

Message no. 831
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 11:09am
Subject Television and the perpetuation of Gender-Role Stereotypes

I used the searching terms, "Gender ROle." I had no

problem finding the following site with Google searching

engine.

http://aap.org/advocacy/sign298.htm

This article written by Dr.Signorielli explains various

issues about the gender-role stereotypes on TV. For

instance, the image of women on TV are that of under

representative. The number of women and men characters

is uneven for paticular TV shows. Moreover, women are

likely to be younger than men on TV. TV can be a

positive force in a young children's life, but only if

that child is media-literate.

Message no. 859
Friday, April 18, 2003 5:54pm
Subject sexism and advertising

To add to my bibliography report I searched for new

information about sexism and advertising.

I used the search engine, http://www.searchbug.com

typing in the phrase: sexism and advertising.

I enjoy using this search engine because it's easy and

it rewords the phrases you type in. For example, when I

typed in the word sexism and advertising, it came up

with new phrases such as problems with advertising. I

would highly recommend using this search engine. Plus,

I didn't encounter any problems while I was using this

search engine.

Here are some of the websites pertaining to this issue.

 

1. http://www.umich.edu/~sapac/SIAcontacts.htm This

website provides contact information of brand names like

BEBE and DIOR. The purpose is to get people to write

and complain about their sexist advertisments.

2.

http://www.brisinst.org.au/resources/wynter_vivienne_shoes.html

This article dealt with Windson Smith shoes and his

sexist advertisments. Apparently, one of his ads was

considered distastful. And the Advertising Standard

Board (ABS) also found it to be distasteful so they had

one particular billboard taken down.

Message no. 994

Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:48am
Subject smurf sexism

Childrens cartoons are daily supplement growing up in

America and around the world. One of the most popular

cartoons of my generation was the smurf. The idea of the

cartoon was simple a bunch of small blue people with

different personalities live together and face off

against the evil gargamel. Back then no one came to take

a look at what messages we were sending our children.

All the characters in the smurfs are men, except for

Smurfette who wore high heel shoes and a dress. The drew

the character to look very sexy. Other shows like He-man

and Gi-joe draw sexist barriers on how men and women

should act and behave. That is what can be seen as the

problems with these types of shows. It portrays men as

the aggresores and women as submissive and incapable of

taking care of them selves. Men also wore tight fitting

clothes and and women skimpy outfits. As a kid this has

a strong effect on out gender roles, and has the

possibility to inhibit men and women for stepping

outside of those means.

http://www.english.wayne.edu/~calice/Ferguson/smurf.html

 

2. COMMERICIALS AND CARTOONS

Message no. 89
Monday, January 27, 2003 9:25pm
Subject "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

I searched in Yahoo using the phrase 'commercials during

cartoons' to find websites. I didn't really have a

specific topic in mind, but I figured that since

cartoons are pretty sexist (as I found in my TV-sexism

forum research), their commercial promoters would

probably be plugging pretty sexist toys. Pink and

pretty for the girls, dark and destructive for the boys.

And this proved true.

Two good, but very different, websites I found were

www.danielscablevision.com/pages/60tips.html and

www.geocities.com/carnival_isha/commercials.htm.

The first website lists a bunch of tips on how to

monitor your children's viewing by limiting their TV

time daily and interacting with them while they watch

TV. This helps proper absorption of fact rather than

fiction since oftentimes young children cannot decipher

for themselves and thus commercials that boast of

products with amazing abilities will have children

believing in no time. This also helps the parent

because do you want your child whining for a new toy

after they've been brainwashed? Probably not.

The second site is even more interesting because it has

bizarre facts such as 'American children see 20,000

commercials during their childhood.' It also mentions

the dangers of such stereotypes and expectations

children can form.

I personally, just don't think it's healthy to sacrifice

our children's minds to this mass-consumerism society.

Would kids clamor after so many brightly colored new

toys or junk food if they didn't see it on TV all the

time? Yeah, probably somewhat cause it's all around us.

But when I'm a parent, I'll want my kids to think for

themselves, not for Fisher-Price.

P.S. I had no trouble researching this topic.

Message no. 102[Branch from no. 89]
Thursday, January 30, 2003 2:33pm
Subject Re: "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

I totally agree with Christina. I searched through the

search engine of yahoo and tried different ways of

finding information on coomercials during cartoons.

Commercials during cartoons, commercial brainwashing,

children's television, as well as a few others. I found

that without commercials advertising persuasive ways of

getting people to buy things, people would probably be

healthier and more in shape. Television is a main

source of corruption in our society. Children are very

subseptible to commercials and what they advertise.

They are subdued to violence, sex, and even to diseases

such as obesity and anerexia. In my opinion, this is why

children are beginning to learn adult subjects earlier

and earlier, such as the topic of sex. I also have found

that if there were no commercials during children's

cartoons, kids would not be subdued to toy advertising

and candy advertising. Without these commercials kids

would probably be much amarter and healthier. Parents

must be strongly cautioned towards what there children

watch on television. Parents should accompany there

child when watching television and explain to them

things that they might not understand. Parents also

should limit there child to an hour a day of television.

Television is one of the most influential things in

society to our children. We must monitor what our

children can and cannot watch. Everything you see in

commercials is directed to a certain sex and age group.

Commercials for children is seen as boys like cars as

well as girls like dolls. It is a part of our society.

Society chows us something and we, especially children,

think it is right.

Message no. 131[Branch from no. 89]
Sunday, February 2, 2003 12:35am
Subject Re: "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

I agree that commercials advertising sexist toys do have

their downside, but we should be looking to other

sources to blame for the development of children's

attitudes also. I know that when I go shopping for my

five year old nephew I tend to buy toys that I would

have wanted to play with as a kid, regardless of the

advertising dollars spent on it's commercials. So

really I'm to blame for imposing my inclination towards

certain toys, sexist or not. In fact the last toy I

bought for him was a kick-ass remote controlled monster

truck which I play with more frequently than he.

Whether or not my liking for sexist toys was learned

from sexist commercials as a kid I'm not sure. I do

know that I expect my nephew to feel the same towards

the toys I buy for him and react negatively when he

doesn't.

Message no. 144[Branch from no. 131]
Monday, February 3, 2003 7:24pm
Subject Re: "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

good call. that's typical of me too. and thus the

cycle of sexism repeats itself.

Message no. 276[Branch from no. 131]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:25pm
Subject Re: "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

You know, I think thats interesting that you brought

that up. I never thought about that. My father did

that to me when I was little, and still does (just not

with toys).

I remember as a 5yr old (I'm an only child)...my dad

bought a Laser Tag set (one gun, and one vest)...and

guess who got to wear the vest...ME!! He'd chase me

around the house with the gun, and I'd have the vest

on...and I'd wonder to myself who the set was for, him

or me.

He still does it too, he'll buy things for my car that

he'd like to put in his, but realizes that "tricking

out" his truck is a lot less fun that my sporty little

car.

I agree with Miss Larson...good call!

Message no. 182[Branch from no. 89]
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 9:17pm
Subject Re: "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

you know...i do know one example of what you said.

whether children would still beg for toys if they didn't

watch TV.

a child that i work with (i work with elementary

children at an afterschool/daycare/japanese language

school thing) is not allowed to watch television at

home, with the exception of educational TV...history

channel, discovery, etc.

however...i still hear him screaming for the newest rage

toy, or game or whatever...its amazing. the children

around him are enough of an influence that he still

falls victim to the mass-media produced

"brainwashing"...damn they're good!!

Message no. 340[Branch from no. 89]
Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:26pm
Subject Re: "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

I couldn't agree more. Concerning the first point on

monitoring children's viewing habits, it is becoming

incresingly important: kids are watching TV more than

ever, and TV is an all too easy way to entertain a child

while the overworked parent gets a break. Limiting

viewing time is essential. More sex and violence is

being marketed to kids than ever before. If something

inappropriate does come on while a child is watching, it

isn't necessarily bad if there is a responsible adult

there to discuss it with them if they have any

questions, or to set them straight if it's deemed a bad

influence. It gives the child and adult an opportunity

to discuss things that might not otherwise come up.

Now to the second point. Commercials (and cartoons

themselves) absolutely support gender stereotypes.

However, I think the advertisements children are exposed

to as adolescents are far more harmful than the ones

seen during early childhood. But perhaps this is where

the seeds are planted. The amount of commercials during

all TV programming is necessary for our digustingly

over-consumptive society. Kids are taught at a young

age that more is better, that possessions bring

happiness, and that unnecessary luxuries are indeed

necessary. This is what keeps the cycle going, and

parents feed the leviathon because they were raised the

same way.

Message no. 555[Branch from no. 340]
Saturday, March 15, 2003 5:28pm
Subject Re: "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

I agree that parents should take it into their own hands

to monitor what their kids are watching. They should

also be there to discuss with them anything that doesn't

seem right on T.V. T.V. has been used as a baby-sitter

for kids and parents wonder why they may have behavior

problems. I don't think that T.V. is all to blaim for

children's gender preferences in toys. Boys are not

encouraged to play with girl toys and girls are not

encouraged to play with boy toys. They acquire these

gender differences from their parents as well as society

and T.V.

Message no. 589[Branch from no. 555]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:40pm
Subject Re: "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

It is completly up to parents to monitor the television

viewing habit of their children, but in the end if you

allow your child to watch tv, they will see

advertisments directed towards them. Advertisments

which are a result of our culture, and that cannot be

avoided. The gender difference encontered from watching

television are also unavoidable, but what can you do.

Things are what they are because they are a certain way.

And that is the reason that people like things. If you

didn't agree with the catholic church on the way that

they handled the sex scandal, you could boycott the

church. But so much depends on the media, primarily

television, that at some time you are dgoing to have to

revert back to it, and when you do it will be the same

as it was when you boycotted it. It will always be a

lose-lose situation when you deal with it. The trick is

how long can you not deal with it?

Message no. 566[Branch from no. 89]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 2:26am
Subject Re: "Commercials"... or BRAINWASHING?

I agree that it is not healthy to sacrifice our

children's minds to the mass consumerism of this

society, but these days everyone is so busy. My cousin

constantly buys his daughter anything to keep her

occupied. He found that as long as he has a Barney tape

going or some kind of cartoon going, she will usually

just sit there and keep quiet. It's funny because to me

it looks like he tries to use the TV media as a

babysitter, so that he can work on his business. He

even put a TV and DVD player in all his cars just so

that she can watch her shows while on the road.

Message no. 130
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:39pm
Subject Princess Mononoke.

I looked for the reviews of the movie, Princess

Mononoke. I was simply curious about the interpretation

of the main character in the movie through people who

saw it as some sort of idealized model of woman in

Japan.

I used the title of the movie as the search terms and I

had no difficulty in finding the specific opinions in

the reviews.

Mostly I use "askjeeves.com" when I search, actually I

don't know many search engines.

http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/mh/impressions4.html,

this is Hayao Miyasaki's homepage. I would say, he is

one of the greatest and most famous anime director in

Japan and I belive that his name has been well known in

the world.

Personally, I like his films and I've been the big fan

of his movies. Most of his films have drawn many female

viewers to the anime genre and changed traditional

stereotype of female characters. The main character

represents the genuine role model of female; strong not

only mentally but also physically, independent, and

world saviour.

Japanese women see it as ideal and alternatives in

personality and lifestyle, and they have recognized that

they are no longer men's belongings.

Message no. 271[Branch from no. 130]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:16pm
Subject Re: Princess Mononoke.

Aloha Kyoko- I have not heard of Hayao Miyasaki but the

contributions he is making to global equal gender rights

is beneficial to say the least. It is my understanding

that the traditional Japanese wife is expected to be

obedient and submissive. For these women to realize

their own self worth through the artistic talent of

another gives Miyasaki the greatest compliment. I have

always enjoyed Japanese anime but always had a special

appreciation for the classics such as Voltron and

Robotech. Then need to bring those back with positive

themes because, through your post, I can see how great

the influence of cartoons have on individual people.Bye.

Message no. 195
Thursday, February 6, 2003 9:02pm
Subject Gender roles in cartoons and commercials

I was curious to see the connection between gender

based cartoons and commercials they aired with, but I

found articles about gender commercials. I had no

problems with these searches. I chose to use two

different search engines for a variety of articles.

My first search was on http://www.searchbug.com

using these key words:commercials based on the cartoons

they air with. I found this article

http://transforums.tripod.com/id21.htm which states that

many cartoons from the 80s such as: Transformers,

He-Man, She-ra, Care Bears, and Strawberry Shortcake

were created by toy companies to help with toy sales.

Basically the toy companies made cartoons out of their

own products making it like a half hour commercial.

These products were gender based and so the cartoons

"commercials" were aimed specifically at a certain

gender. My second search engine I used was

http://www.skworm.com with the key words:gender cartoons

with commercials. I found this site

http://www.resurrender.com/toypaper.html The article was

about how big the gender gap was for tv commercials for

children's toys, and how children recognize different

toys by their brand names. Both these articles

show that commericals for kids are gender aimed and many

cartoons are created to boost toy sales.

Message no. 201[Branch from no. 195]
Friday, February 7, 2003 9:44am
Subject Re: Gender roles in cartoons and commercials

I agree with you that the gender gap in childrens

commercials is huge. But as we have learned the

children recognize the differences at an early age.

They show outward signs of how they deal with problems

and its much different between girls and boys. Even if

they havent watch much tv they still model after their

parents. By the time they do start watching cartoons

and enjoying them they have already been gender

socialized so boys dont want to play with girl toys and

vice versa

Message no. 214[Branch from no. 195]
Friday, February 7, 2003 3:06pm
Subject Re: Gender roles in cartoons and commercials

The information you researched was quite interesting,

especially the idea that many cartoons(including ones I

enjoyed as a child) are produced purely for advertising

purposes; for a particular product produced by the

cartoon developer. This is a highly effective process,

for both genders, as myself and my younger sister are

both proud owners of multiple toys from our favorite

cartoons.

Message no. 250
Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:15pm
Subject children learn unhealthy methods of taking care of themselves

I used google to find information on commercials and

cartoons. It was really difficult for me to find

information on commercials and cartoons. When I finally

typed in exactly what I wanted to know: "what is

advertised during cartoons" I finally got something at

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/family/348-008.htm#L1 This

website is called "Food, Kids and Television" and it is

design for caretakers and parents to gain awareness of

the harms of television programs and commercials.

Authors of the website state that at a very young age

children learn consumerism from commercials. The ones

during cartoons especially are harmful because they

advertise so much candy and other foods that are bad for

anybody's health, but especially young people who are

still developing. Authors call attention to the need for

parents to talk to their kids about the hidden messages

(in this case having to do with health). Not only that,

but this website also addresses the role that sexism

plays--the toys that are advertised during children's

programming like cartoons are very gender specific.

Message no. 265[Branch from no. 250]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:19pm
Subject Re: children learn unhealthy methods of taking care of themselves

you know, it's so true. kids are driven by

mass-consumerism as much as the rest of our culture.

interesting what you point out about kids' health

because recently i went getting drive-thru when i

noticed McD's now has 'supersize kids meals.' typical.

and so gross. this is why america is overweight.

absolutely no child needs a double-decker cheeseburger.

Message no. 299[Branch from no. 250]
Friday, February 14, 2003 4:57pm
Subject Re: children learn unhealthy methods of taking care of themselves

I agree that unhealthy foods are advertised all the time

but it sells the product---exactly what it's suppose to

do. Marketers are very smart and they do their job

well. In fact, business and psychology are very

similiar from this perspective. Psychologist and

economist are both looking to see what sells, the

choices people make and why, and what are the

reinforcements.

Nevertheless, even though a commercial does what it's

suppose to do it also invites problems. Because many

commercials are marketed a certain way (makes food look

good and people are having fun eating it) it makes me

feel like I'm missing out even though I know it's

unhealthy. But I don't care, I want it. Now, here is

where differences may arise between me, an adult, and

children. I am older and I have my OWN money to buy my

greasy cheeseburger and large fries and I am also more

educated about foods. So with this in mind, I'm

thinking that it's not the markerters fault that

children buy and want what the see on TV. Rather WHO is

buying these unhealthy foods and can it be a learned

thing- to eat unhealthy? I believe parents are partly

to blame for their kids "unhealthy" eating habits. If

parents like to eat Mcdonalds maybe their kids will too.

And if they see their parents eating/buying it all the

time I think their children will want to, too (social

learning). I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if

a lot of unhealthy children have unhealthy parents.

First of all, kids can't buy their own food and I don't

think they go out and buy their own groceries to cook

"good" food. So like the article, I think it's a really

good idea for parents to educated their kids about

eating healthy.

Just some other information to think about. In a

magazine recently published, Hawaii was rated the fitest

or had the lowest rate of overweight people. And, I

heard on the news that six out of ten people in Hawaii

are overwight.

Message no. 321[Branch from no. 250]
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:14pm
Subject Re: children learn unhealthy methods of taking care of themselves

Commercials during children‚s programs not only

advertise candy but also make it appealing by

transforming the world around them or by transforming

them physically into fruit or cartoons. And of course

the boys are supposed to play with Tonka trucks and the

girls with dolls. There are even commercials that will

target women and cleaning. What I do like about the

Disney channel is that they make an attempt to educate

about letters and numbers during commercial breaks.

This may be a reflection of junk food commercials during

cartoons but in the supermarket you almost have to trick

kids to eat healthy with colorful packaging or fun

shapes and even the candy sometimes is fruit shaped,

tricking the parent to believe it is healthy and the

child that healthy food tastes like sugar!

Message no. 590[Branch from no. 250]
Friday, March 21, 2003 7:13am
Subject Re: children learn unhealthy methods of taking care of themselves

I guess I never really thought about it, but it is

true...there is an unbelievable amount of commercials,

for candy and other junk food, that air during cartoons.

It's kind of funny if you think about it because we are

always nagging our children not eat too much candy, or

to finish their vegetables if they want some dessert.

But these advertisements, which clearly target children,

give mixed signals. The t.v. says it's okay to eat, but

mommy says no causing her to look like the bad guy just

because she cares about her child's health. Just that

little element alone probably adds to the pains of

parenting.

Message no. 257
Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:49am
Subject More gender stereotype in commercials than cartoons

I found this article in msn.com after typing in "effects

of commercials and cartoons on childre". I was led to

the site

http://vax.wcsu.edu/~mccarney/acad/bradway.html. It was

easy to find and I had no trouble with it.

This article was actually a research that was done by

Jacquely S. Bradway on commercials and television

programs that children watch. What was surprising to me

was that the article showed that there is more gender

stereotyping in commercials than in the television

programs that they watch. It said that the commercials

reflect the culture. Boys are to play with toys that

have to do with construction or building things while

girls play with dolls and housekeeping equipment.

Commercials with boys are also more fast paced than girl

commercials. They are louder, brighter, and more

active.

Gender stereotyping in commercials bring out gender

stereotyping in real life. Children are very affected

by these commercials. If a boy sees in a commercial

that a girl is playing something, he would never want to

go out and buy that toy. Same with real situations.

Building and construction becomes a "man's occupation",

while housekeeping is a woman's.

Message no. 335[Branch from no. 257]
Monday, February 17, 2003 9:54pm
Subject Re: More gender stereotype in commercials than cartoons

I do agree with you that some people still see that a

man's job is outside the home, while the woman's job is

inside the home. But I think ultimately it is the

parent's responsibility to explain and educate the

children properly. As I grew up I was told I could do

anything I wanted to do. I truely believe this.

Anyone, male or female, can do whatever makes them

happy. It is very important to talk with kids and

listen to the things they say. It is the parent's

responsibility to educate the child about gender

sterotyping. I can say that I see a big difference in

the cartoons and commercials that I saw as a kid and

them today. Much more sexual and violent content now.

Technology is at their fingertips. They see way more

than what I saw as a kid. I wonder how much childhood

will change in the next 20 years.

Message no. 336[Branch from no. 335]
Monday, February 17, 2003 9:58pm
Subject Re: More gender stereotype in commercials than cartoons

I have to agree with Heather because I took a childhood

course and we discussed the effect of television on

children today and the main point that was emphasized

during our discussion was that parents today are too

busy working that they tend to neglect talking to their

children about what they are watching and what children

think about what they are watching. In addition, we

also talked about how it is important to sit with your

children (especially if you are watching television

geared more toward adults) and explain to your children

what the program was about and why they portrayed it

that way.

Message no. 322
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:17pm
Subject gender roles in cartoons

I went to this

website:http://www.apa.org/releases/cartoon.html. This

is a article about two psychologist that studied

cartoons to see if they have changed at all...the answer

is no. They say that males are more dominant characters

in cartoons. They play the main characters and are more

well-rounded and show more masculine traits. While

there are some women main characters and some women are

portrayed in cartoons, they are not well-rounded, they

nag, they whine, they are bland characters. I thought

this was really interesting because I love to read the

funnies every sunday and now that I think about it the

findings of these two psychologists are true.

Message no. 324
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:25pm
Subject gender roles in cartoons

I went to this website:

http://www.oakland.edu/~kitchens/160a/fall98.html. It's

funny because it basically says that children are not

complaining about gender roles in cartoons...only adults

are. And while the suggestion is wisely taken I can not

express to this person the extent of instruction that

children learn gender roles from commercials and

cartoons.

Message no. 325
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:35pm
Subject response to lu message #257

I never thought about how fast paced boys commercials

are until I read that article. Now that you think about

it girls commercials do have softer music and they are

more slow paced. Then you look at some action figure

for a boy and the music is fast and the boys are running

around.

Message no. 362
Thursday, February 20, 2003 5:53pm
Subject Cartoon influence?

When thinking of cartoons I don't think of Digimon or

Powerpuff girls, I think of Transformers, GIJoe and

He-man and the cartoon with the animals with different

t-shirts detailing their qualities (Shirt-tails?) anyway

-I think the cartoons in these modern times suck. I

don't see how the cartoons from my day are still not on

the air. I'm sure kids nowadays would fully appreciate

them if they were still being broadcasted. I finally

used a different search engine with Google. This google

thing works pretty well. I typed Cartoons, influence and

Transformers and the list was pretty long. I chose the

following articles:

www.moondancersdream.com/PAR.thirtyminutecommercial.htm

www.yojoe.com/faq/gifaq.shtml

The first article was a counter attack against those who

propose that cartoons of the eighties were mere thirty

minute commercials trying to influence young,nieve minds

into begging their parents for the toys they saw on TV.

The author states that these toys were flying off the

shelves before the cartoons were even conceptualized and

that the success of the toys caused the cartoons to be

produced. This guy was a real cartoon junky, citing

everything positive about cartoons and their

accomplishments (ex.Transformers Beast Wars getting an

Emmy)and did nothing to show him as unbiased due to not

detailing any ill effects of cartoons. The second

article was just filled with information on GIJoe. I

don't knoe how GIJoe got into this Transformer party but

this second favorite cartoon caught my attention just

like it did 15 years ago. Anything you wanted to know

about GIJoes can be found in this website along with

frequently asked questions. It also detailed how these

cartoons and others such as Jem were all made and

produced in Japan. Cartoons do have an overwhelming

influence on a young childs mind. I know for a fact that

I saw my first Transformer cartoon way before I got my

first Transformer toy and that it was due soley to the

cartoon that I needed Grimlock, Soundwave, Sabotage,

Sludge, Thundercracker and Megatron. If I saw these

toys in the store and I had no idea who they were or

where they were from I probably would not have asked my

mom continously,repeatively and irritatingly for them

without mercy. So yeah, I disagree with the first

article and do think that cartoons do serve a double

purpose for their creators, one is ratings and the other

is commercialization of their product.

Message no. 421
Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:58pm
Subject The Media and Child Development

I watched a Saturday morning cartoon called

Pokëmon. This particular episode was called "Brock's

Heartbreak," and it was about the character "Brock,"

getting hit on by girl to the point where this girl

wants to marry him upon first sight. The usually

womanizing Brock is caught in a reverse situation where

he is the one who is hit on (instead of vice-versa).

During the course of the show, she also attempts to

marry two other people at first sight: namely one of the

lead villians of the show, James, and a doctor that

treats her at the end of the show. This girl's father

is a wealthy scientist that raises and studies Pokëmon,

and the villians push the idea of marriage in order to

steal her father's Pokëmon. The heros of this series,

Ash, Misty, and Brock reveal their true intentions and

rescue (or try to) this reluctant girl, Tamaku, from

marriage to "bad" people with the "wrong" intentions.

After the battle, Tamaku "falls-in-love" with the doctor

treating her. Misty reminds Brock that no-one can

compete with a Doctor (probably preaching some kind of

social-status value no-doubt). In the end, Tamaku's

scientist father tells the heros that she had previously

saw a wedding and was very enthusiastic about having her

own.

The Moral? Early marriage is dangerous for there

are many bad people in the world. Extra lessons could

be that love does not come over night (for everyone),

Social status does pay an important role in marriage

(so study hard kiddies and become an MD), and boys:

watch out for those finicky girls. These lessons are

important lessons for all ages, but I don't think half

of the world is listening to them anyway (proof? The

divorse rate is bad enough, and that doesn't even

include or compare to the amount of broken

relationships and unmarried mothers, etc.).

I would show this to any child, it has soft-core

violence, but weilds terrific values and entertaining

dialogues throughout it's plot. The ending was sort of

sad, but it had true-to-life reality (heartbreak) that

fits in quite well with preparing our children for the

twists and turns of life (warning them of impending

danger; or something like that).

Message no. 435[Branch from no. 421]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:09pm
Subject Re: The Media and Child Development

So Mark-- I read your review of the Pokemon cartoon. I

have not seen that one or any of them for that matter.

You made some interesting inferences but I must say,

based on what you reported as events in this episode, I

disagree with you. Here's my interpretation of the

cartoon: *This woman/girl wants to marry Brock and then

2 other people sends the message that a woman's love is

not genuine, but rather she wants somebody who's secure

(a doctor perhaps???). *Ash, Misty, and Brock rescue her

from a bad marriage--SHE HAS TO BE RESCUED??? Don't you

think this makes her look a little powerless? If she's

tricked into marriage and then has to be rescued out of

it, she's looks stupid and helpless. *This woman/girl's

father explains that she just saw a wedding so she's

enthusiastic about her own. Doesn't this perpetuate the

stereotype that all females--girls until they're

women--sit around planning their wedding day and waiting

passively for an assertive man to "rescue her?"

*Please help me understand how "boys: watch out for

those finicky girls" is an important lesson for all

ages? It's grossly one-sided to say the least. *P.S.

"Softcore violence" is not a "terrific value."

Message no. 440[Branch from no. 435]
Friday, February 28, 2003 12:19am
Subject Re: The Media and Child Development

Vanessa,

I did not post this to generalize, so I expected

you not to see it as such. A woman's love is genuine,

but not everyone's is, regardless of gender. Just as a

person must be careful regardless of whom she/he is

dating, etc. "Rather she wants somebody who's secure?"

A doctor perhaps, yeah social status does exist, most do

prefer to marry a doctor. Especially in Japan (where the

show was made, and no doubt it was made by a Japanese

National). *Ash, Misty, and Brock rescue her, period.

Don't YOU think this makes her look a little powerless?

"If she's tricked into marriage and then has to be

rescued out of it, she's looks stupid and helpless."

That's the whole point! Hopefully the CHILDREN can

understand that, being that they are regular watchers of

the show and know who the villans are by heart. It's

the children who get to point and the screen and say

"DANGER! DANGER! Don't do it!" They should feel good

knowing that they know what's right and what's wrong.

*Doesn't this perpetuate the stereotype that all

females--girls until they're women--sit around planning

their wedding day and waiting passively for an assertive

man to "rescue her?" --There's a stereotype? Nah,

that's not what my MOM taught me. Oh, you must be

confused with the movie Pretty Woman. I did NOT like

the way she was portrayed in it. But I'm not bold

enough to say that it doesn't happen. *Please help me

understand how "boys: watch out for those finicky girls"

is an important lesson for all ages. -- Ok, but soon

I'm going to start charging. lol. As a child grows up

(boys or girls alike, mind you), they have this

innocence about them. Sometimes they remain this way

until they get burned by some mean person. A warning

doesn't seem that bad around now, does it? Or are you

still hung up on the feminist issue? Ok, back to the

divorce rate: it's quite high. People are deciding that

they are right for each other, not right for each other,

right for each other, not right for each other... A lot

of people keep up the repetition but I don't have the

time to keep going. "Boys, watch out for only CERTAIN

girls," was what I was referring to. This means YOUR

PERCEPTION of things is grossly one-sided to say the

least. SHEESH! Look closely at my reply again, the only

feminist issues you see exist in your head. Remember

that you did not see the show, but still jumped to

conclusions. Hmmmm, yet you did reply to my reply. For

what it's worth, thanks. --Velocity *P.S. "Softcore

violence" is a "terrific value" for two reasons: 1.)

When you're fighting for the right cause, especially for

what you believe in (like justice). and 2.) Soft core is

not hard core, and presumably it has the right amount of

action without getting too aggressive (shooting water

versus shooting bullets from an AK-47).

Message no. 438
Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:40pm
Subject cartoons and gender roles

I was using the google search engine searching for

gender roles as they are portrayed in cartoon

characters. i had no problems finding an article on

gender roles and those roles in cartoons.

http://www.apa.org/releases/cartoon.html

This article was mainly about how cartoons portray the

traditonal gender and sex roles we have in society.

Things havent changed much from the 70s. Our youth is

still being exposed to the same images as generations

before. With the new age of broadcasting and tv

becoming more edgy and controvocial the images being

sent out are that much more powerful. Besides the

advances in the equal rights of people the traditional

images still stand strong in our society.

Message no. 459
Saturday, March 1, 2003 1:45pm
Subject Marketing to our Children

This was extremely interesting to research. It is

amazing how much advertising is marketed directly to our

children. I found a fantastic site that has ove 10

articles written about ads that target children. This

is huge business. Children see over 40,000 commercials

a year. Children influence about $500 BILLION in

spening a year. Marketers target children instead of

the parents who have the money b/c it is easier for your

kids to convince parents to buy something rather than

the tv commercials. The commercials that are being

played are for toys and junk food. If the advertisers

can convince the kids that every other kid has it,

children will pressure the parents.

In addition to marketing directly to children, the

commercials are gender biased. During girl cartoons you

will see more commercials for dolls, barbie's, make-up,

and stuffed animals. During the boys cartoons you will

see the commercials target the boys; cars, action

figures, and other male oriented toys.

Again I started using google as my search engine. This

search was a little more tricky. I used the terms:

advertising that targets children, commercials during

cartoons, advertising during cartoons, commercials. My

search was not going so well. So I started using the

advance search. I just mixed the words around until I

got waht I was looking for.

this is the best site I found:

http://www.commercialexploitation.com

Message no. 475[Branch from no. 459]
Monday, March 3, 2003 10:42pm
Subject Re: Marketing to our Children

Reply to Marketing to our children

I can't believe that children see over 40,000

commercials a year. No wonder it's such a big

industry!--I mean $500 billion dollars a year is a lot

of money for kids to be generating.

I also agree that advertisers can convince children to

pressure their parents to buy them toys or food. I can

remember asking my mom to buy me a cabbage patch doll.

I thought every girl had one except me and begged her

for it. Of course I got it. But, now I know. So if I

ever have kids I won't fall for their tricks. hehe.

Message no. 499
Friday, March 7, 2003 11:38am
Subject Child Psy./ TV violence

I found a place where they talk of the subject, perhaps

you all already seen this one but:

http://radio.atlantisrising.com/HillyRose/175_Gerald_Jones/175_Gerald_Jones.shtml

"Why Children Need Fantasy, Super Heroes, and

Make-Believe Violence"

It was interesting to hear someone other than myself say

that letting children watch shows where they can define

or understand what is right or wrong in the content

actually helps them in their development.

Acknowledgement of what is right and wrong is another

key ingredient in the learning process. If you want to

teach children right that is. I'd imagine it probably

would be better if you watch the show with them and

speak some of those out loud for confirmation though.

Message no. 567[Branch from no. 499]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 2:44am
Subject Re: Child Psy./ TV violence

I agree that allowing children to watch shows with

violence in it does not harm the child. If the child

wants to watch it, the parent should just let them watch

it, but must be sure to explain to the child the

difference between TV and real life. All throughout my

life my parents never restricted what I could and could

not watch. But when I was young they made sure to

explain to me about the difference between reality and

TV. By doing that it helped me to understand why I

shouldn't imitate the characters that I see on TV. For

instance why I shouldn't copy the Ninja Turtle's and

beat up people that made trouble to me.

Message no. 570[Branch from no. 567]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:22am
Subject Re: Child Psy./ TV violence

Yes, yes! Many of us watched violent things when we

were young! You see, thats my whole point. If you sit

down with the child and explain what is good and what is

bad then no matter what terrible things (like rated R

movies that children tend to end up seeing) the child

"accidentally" sees, he/she can seperate what is good

and what is bad. Of course if you gradually yet

constantly remind the child of both what is good

behavior and what is bad behavior, they will listen. I

am a constant reminder of that [I knew right from wrong,

and I'm fine today] and (most of) us are too.

Accentuate the positive too, that is always a good

start.

P.S.: Thanks for agreeing with me Shawn, sometimes I

feel like I'm alone in this.

Message no. 588
Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:33pm
Subject The problem with modern society

Do we not look down upon those who threaten the well

being and saftey of our children and children in

general? Then why do we tolerate commercials aimed at

children which promote nothing good or wholesome, but

rather junk food and toys? the way thing are going now

that is all advertisments during childrens programing is

about. 96% of all advertisments during childrens

programing is for candy, pre-sweetened cereals, new toys

and soda. Only 4% of commercials are for breads and

grain, juice, or meat. you could say that it is

because that is what children like. But, do children

really like this stuff that much, or do we make them

like it? Just like when people say that if children

watch violent programing they will tend to be morre

violent than usual. Then what about watching shows for

candy and fast food? Does this not have the same

effect? you have to be stupid to say no. Then why do

we allow our children to be subjected to these types of

things when we know that this is a silent epidemic?

People want to wait until the problem is visable, and by

that time it is too late. When will you intervene?

When your child is 80 pounds over weight, or will you

wait until that child has his or her own child that is

now 80 pounds over weight? the cycle has begun and mass

media is the culprit. I used the google search engine to

find results on this topic. I typed in commercials and

childrens programing, but that didn't get too many

relavant hits, so i typed in advertisments during

childrens programing. here i got many better results.

www.isiswomen.org/pub/medvaw/repre.html

www.cycf.umn.edu/schoolage/programs/cc1024.html

Message no. 773[Branch from no. 588]
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 11:42pm
Subject Re: The problem with modern society

Reply message to Raul Sabat:

I think the main reason adults and society tolerate

commercials that are not "wholesome" has a lot to do

with the lack of information about how commercials can

effect a child.

I honeslty don't think many people are aware of how much

impact commercials can have. Another thing to note is

that adults don't give much credit to how smart children

are.

Message no. 591
Friday, March 21, 2003 7:35am
Subject commercials for kids

Using Yahoo, I did a search on the words " ." It took

me a little while to shuffle through some of the sites

that did not even pertain to this subject. But other

than that, I had no other problems. I found an article

entitled "COMMERCIALS ON KIDS SHOWS - WHAT'S THE

MESSAGE?" at:

http://lynnsgallery.com/toontalk/commercials.html

According to this article, commercials that come on

during children's shows are discriminant in terms of sex

and race. It states that a majority of the characters

in commercials are white males. It also says that some

commercials do feature black children, but they rarely

have any speaking lines. One thing that the author

pointed out was a commercial that she had seen while

watching Saturday morning cartoons. It was a lego

commercial with a little boy playing Legos with his

grandmother. His grandma kicks his butt and everyone is

left wondering how she pulled that off...then at the end

of the commercial she reveals that she is really a HE.

Those are just a couple of examples of sexism and racism

pointed out by the author of this article.

Message no. 824[Branch from no. 591]
Monday, April 14, 2003 7:41pm
Subject Re: commercials for kids

In response to Deni........

What you found is really interesting, when I try to

think of how many children's commercials feature black

female kids, I can't think of any right off the bat

compared to white male kids. Latley, however, I've seen

much more Asians not only in commercials, but on t.v. in

generaL, which suggest an increasing awarenes to have a

better representation of the American population.

If you also listen to the voiceovers on the commericals

there are far more men than there are women. Women

voiceovers usually do house cleaning supplies or

feminine hygiene products, while men voiceovers are more

broad.

Message no. 601
Saturday, March 22, 2003 12:37pm
Subject roles children learn

The search engine I used was MSN. The key words I used

to search were gender roles in cartoon commercials. At

first I had a lot of difficulty because only cartoon

sites were presented. I came across an article about

how cartoons stereotype gender roles. The address is

http://www.apa.org/releases/cartoon.html It mainly

discussed that in cartoons the men have more important

roles such as scientists and doctors while women are

nurses or beauties. Male characters also outnumber the

female characters. "Male characters are also still

portrayed as dominate, powerful and aggressive. Female

characters don't have any 'character' at all." Another

article I found on MSN is "Gender-Differentiated

Production Features in Toy Commercials". The address is

http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/short/toyads.html

This article discusses research that shows differences

in how toys are marketed to children including male

voices for boys commercials and female voices for girl's

commercials. And the commercial styles for boys were

more "masculine" while girls commercials were

"feminine."

Message no. 768[Branch from no. 601]
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 9:06pm
Subject Re: roles children learn

Can people say that if we didn't incorporate gender

roles into modern society that we would be better off?

i think it is horrible what people are doing to the

children by over projecting gender roles into hildren

programing, but then again there must be some basis to

hold these ideas together. I am not saying that

children need to learn about these things in these ways

or that they need to be brainwashed into thinkiing a

certain way about their genders, but it would be

impossible to have a completly fair and impartial

society in which people could avoid conflict as such.

Are we to say that the media society has to change

before real society can change or does real society have

to change before the media will change? I feel that it

is impossible for equality to occur because once one

aspect has been liberated, another will fall into the

hole, and then people will say that this new thing is

unfair, and that is just the way it is.

Message no. 686
Friday, April 4, 2003 12:25am
Subject commercials, how we are affected?

using google i looked under sex roles in commercials. i

found articles quite fast.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m2294/1999_Sept/58469479/p2/article.jhtml?term=gender%2Brole%2Badvertising

the article is a journal article sent out to show the

roles of men in television. It focuses on the commercial

aspect of tv. it has statistical analysis showing how

many commercials the avg. american watches in one day.

Its rediculous. We are affected by everything we see on

tv. The article shows how commercials try to reflect

the values of our society. Like television program it

uses the values and laws of society to socialize in to

all thinking the same way. Sex roles are a by product

of this. The more we see some one acting a certain way

we begin to make generalizaions that, thats how things

are and thats how they are done.

Message no. 721
Sunday, April 6, 2003 1:43am
Subject advertising during cartoons

I was attempting to find information on between

advertising during cartoons, I can remember as a child

watching hours of cartoons and gazing longingly at the

newest Transformer or GI Joe and insisting to my dear

mum that I HAD to have it.

I used Google to search for advertising+during+cartoons

and found a few interesting articles, one of them pretty

much summed up all the others.

http://www.childrennow.org/newsroom/news-02/cam-ra-4-16-02.htm

This article discusses advertising in cartoons and its

effects on children.

The article claims that 13 Billion dollars are spent

each year marketing food and drinks to children and

their parents. And this doesnt even mention money spent

on advertising toys and other things, i'm guessing that

just as much if not more is spent on toys during

cartoons. I still watch occasionally and it seems like

they are just a big toy ad with some cartoons thrown in

between. The advertising is not for healthy food by any

means, "...only 2 percent of all advertising by food

manufacturers is for fruits, vegetables, grains or beans

-- foods that the government and health professionals

encourage." So basically advertisers just want a bunch

of fat kids watching cartoons all day, and they are

doing a good job of it, "These days, about 14 percent of

U.S. children and youth are too heavy..."

Unfortunately much of the blame lies with the parents,

its up to them to stop buying every fancy fattening food

product their spoiled child desires.

Message no. 731
Sunday, April 6, 2003 2:56pm
Subject i remember that!

i was researching this topic on the internet and found

this neat site:

http://www.memorabletv.com/childrenstv.htm

it has a listing of all the different children's tv

shows throughout history. it was funny when i would

look at some of them and remember them. but, one of the

things that i would also remember was the different

commercials that came with them.

its amazing the gates that were opened up by just the

discription of the show. i remember old army recruiting

commercials, toys, movies, commercials for other tv

shows...clothes. it then dawned on me that these

advertisers are good. they have the ability to affect

children far into their adult lives, the way they have

mine...and i hope that these advertisers are aware of

this, and are responsible with this power.

Message no. 942[Branch from no. 731]
Thursday, May 1, 2003 9:26pm
Subject Re: i remember that!

Yes, it does bring back memories to think of all the

cartoons that I watched when I was growing up. I do

agree with you that tv does influcence kids, and

advertisers need to be more careful on how they

advertise. Of course they are going to try to make the

most appealing commercials to sell the most products.

They are clearly taking advantage of children at this

age.

Message no. 778
Thursday, April 10, 2003 4:05pm
Subject Children' s programming

I wasn't really lokking for anything specific, I just

entered the basic search terms, "children's programming"

and looked for ideas to search for something more

specific on Vivisimo.com. The final search terms I

used was "cartoon character's children's programming,

modeling." www.cqcm.org/juror/juryman4.htm This site

called Coalition for Quality Children's Media lists

criteria for accepting/rejecting titles of children's

programming like:

NO gratuitous violence or sexual behavior NO physical or

verbal abuse NO racial, gender, cultural or religious

bias NO condescension toward children NO unsafe

behaviorRemember to adhere closely to KIDS FIRST!®

baseline criteria when evaluating a product. No

gratuitous violence or sexual behavior

Message no. 871
Monday, April 21, 2003 10:52pm
Subject using sterotypes in advertising

I searched for a connection between boys and girls

cartoons and the commercials they aired with. I used

the search engine: http://www.skworm.com; using the

phrase:commercials for girls and boys cartoons. There

were no problems in the search.

I found the article "Media effect on girls: body and

gender identity."

http://www.khlim.be/saw/onaantrekkelijk/achtergronden/mediaeffects.html

In the article it says that children's cartoon

characters displayed sterotypical characteristics. Boys

were violent, and girls were concerned with their

appearance, domestic, and interested in boys. As for

the girls commercials 50% were about physical

attractiveness, but the boys commercials didn't display

any of this. Also 50% of the boys in commercials aimed

towards them showed them acting aggressively, while the

girls commercials had none of this.

There is a connection between commercials and cartoons.

Advertisers will try to aim for a specific gender and

use sterotypes to try to sell their products to them.

Message no. 978
Monday, May 5, 2003 10:26am
Subject Racism and sexism

http://webct.hawaii.edu:8900/SCRIPT/uhmleon1/scripts/serve_home

This article i found while looking for commercials and

sexism. The article is about the racist and sexist

views we see on television everyday. This is a huge

problem in our country although we do allow it and do

nothing about it. I think americans like thier sex

roles and race roles out there in the open. Because the

changes are so small and insignificant it looks like

nothing has been getting done at all to regulate

commercials and the sexist and bias views they portray.

Message no. 1045
Thursday, May 8, 2003 11:54am
Subject cartoons=reflection of reality?

I used Google for this search and typed in

"cartoons"+"sexism". I had no problem finding an article

on that topic.

One of the articles hit was titled "Sexism and Culture

in Television" (http://www.bluedojo.com/papers/sexism/).

In this article, the author Jim Winn first states that

television shows are sexist because of the viewers'

demand for them. It also seems that most viewers would

like to have sexist shows that are dominated by male

characters. Therefore, some shows are sexist not because

of the producer but because of the viewer themselves.

Another point that Winn brought up in his paper is that

to a certain extent, television also affects our culture

while being affected by it. The author states that every

attempt to incorporate females into television shows

will positively cause some changes in our society,

regardless of whether the change is big or small.

I agree that television and culture are intertwined with

each other and they both have influences over each

other. Becaus of this relationship, sexism exists on

television only because it exists in our culture.

 

3. CONFLICTS OF ADOLESCENT GIRLS

Message no. 17
Tuesday, January 21, 2003 7:02pm
Subject Residential Adolescent Girls Program

In my search I was looking for anything that related to

conflicts that adolescent girls would have. The search

terms I used were, conflicts in adolescent girls. There

were no specific problems with this search. There were

other interesting sites that dealt with intellect and

problem solving. The web address of the article I

looked at is: www.wellspring.org The web address

discussing the difference in how girls and boys resolve

conflicts is:

http://averroes.cec.junta-andalucia.es/vertie/motivadores/adolesce.htm

It is commonly know that many adolescent girls suffer

from anorexia and bulimia, but what interested me about

this site was that they explained how they treat these

disorders along with substance abuse and attachment

issues. The media has focused largely on what these

disorders are and spend less time discussing the

treatment process that follows. I think this is a very

important area to focus on and should receive more

attention.

Message no. 42[Branch from no. 17]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:56pm
Subject Re: Residential Adolescent Girls Program

I like the fact that you addressed the fact that we hear

a lot about WHAT these disorders are, but not a lot

about how to TREAT them. When you look back at the 70s,

when this disorder was becoming a big part in hollywood,

and first starting to get some attention, we have come a

long way in being able to talk about it. At first

society almost had a "shhh...if you ignore it, its not

happening" attitude towards it, but its nice to see that

since the mid 90s we have finally been able to discuss

it with young women and bring the fact that it IS a

disorder to some light. Next step...talking about

treatment.

I do also think that its sad that with as much as we DO

put into education about this and similar disorders,

that we still have it happening. Refering back to my

discussion topic, this partly has to do with the "thin"

look that is going around modelling and hollywood as

"beautiful." I would like to say, as attractive as some

of these women are...THIN IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!!! If we

could get the media to help inform our impressionable

young teen girls about this, and help instill some self

confidence back into society...we may be able to start

PREVENTING these disorders, as opposed to mourning those

who've been victimized by it...

Message no. 341[Branch from no. 17]
Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:49pm
Subject Re: Residential Adolescent Girls Program

The study cited what I think is an obvious but often

overlooked fact of the difference between male and

female relationships. Referencing my own relationships

with my friends, the most insight I can give is that

guys just don't talk about thos kinds of things. By

"those kinds of things" I mean hurt feelings, problems

with girlfriends, etc. Males and females support each

other in completely different but equally effective ways

-- but I think only psychology students would realize

this. Girls offer each other their attentive listening,

shoulders to cry on, advice, and a good time (e.g. a

girls' night out) to free their minds of unpleasant

thoughts.

Guys offer each other ego protection. Without

confidence, men have a hard time. Whether this is the

result of a stereotype or not, it's true. Guys offer

each other excuses and rationalizations to each other

about their problems, and then go out and get wasted

with each other to make themselves feel better. No

pillow talk, no sappy music, just ego rebuilding. While

it may not be as healthy as expressing their feelings,

it's a reality.

How this related to depression, eating disorders, and

the like is very complicated. There is doubtless a

strong connection with the media, but it is possible

that the way women and men cope with social distress

affects their rates of mental disorders. However, it is

hard for me to swallow that a healthier way of dealing

with conflict (as women do) actually causes more mental

disorder.

Message no. 21
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 5:06pm
Subject Conflicts of adolescent girls

Adolescent girls constantly experience their bodies

changing. Many allow the culture to define who they

should be and what they should look like. In this site,

a clinical psychologist points out several conflicts

that adolescent girls may encounter. For instance, the

early adolescent emotional system is unstable; most

early adolescents cannot think abstractly; schools treat

girls and boys differently; the social pressure from

family and peers and so on.

http://www.astc.org/resource/youth/ybook6.htm

Message no. 39[Branch from no. 21]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:55pm
Subject Re: Conflicts of adolescent girls

I think this was a good article because it gave an in

depth look on what kinds of issues teenage girls are

experiencing. I especially think that at this stage in

life girls are very emotional, and they do take the

smallest thing and totally blow it out of proportion.

The way adolescent girls view themeselves definitely has

a lot to do with today's media. Countries like America

value attractiveness. This is why teenage girls without

a strong self-identity will try to be the "image" our

cultrue admires. When we change the way women are

portrayed in the media, we should see more girls feeling

positive about their own selves.

Message no. 53[Branch from no. 21]
Friday, January 24, 2003 2:51pm
Subject Re: Conflicts of adolescent girls

I think that this is a very interesting article. I

actually recieved this book, Reviving Ophelia, as a gift

when I was in high school. This book helped me to

understand some of the difficulties that I had to face

as a teenager. Mary Phipher is an amazing woman. She

is helping many adolescent girls understand themselves

in a more positive way. I think adolescent girls today

have a very difficult time, especially with body imaage.

The media portrays such a negative image on how a woman

is suppose to look. So many young girls today are

starving to be thin just so they can fulfil the

superficial acceptance of society.

Message no. 84[Branch from no. 21]
Monday, January 27, 2003 7:10pm
Subject Re: Conflicts of adolescent girls

This was a good article. It brought up that 'peers are

everything' in adolecent girls. As we have read, females

need peer groups, and peer groups during adolecence are

the same groups that offer drugs, alcohol and sexual

advances. It is not surprising that peer goups are

everything in adolecence and from this it is obvious

that there will be conflics between culture scrips and

authentic selves. Also during adolecence girls are

constantly experiencing body changes and it seems that

because women are birthgivers their body changes are

more extreem than males, therefore there can not be a

comparison between female and male puberty changes.

Lastly, this great change is also reason for girls to

find social groups that understand their changes.

Message no. 413[Branch from no. 84]
Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:13pm
Subject Re: Conflicts of adolescent girls

After re-reding my post, I realized that I did not state

the article that I got my information from. But after

giving my presentation in class, I realized that the

article I used by Charles Darwin was relative as well.

Therefore, coorelated material on my research can be

found in "Gender Differences in Vulnerability to social

stress: A Darwinian Perspective," revised by Alfonso

Troisi. It can be found on reserves at the Sinclair

Library, or in pdf format at

http://reserves.sinclair.hawaii.edu/E_reserves/Wall_PSY324_3.pdf.

Message no. 94[Branch from no. 21]
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:01am
Subject Re: Conflicts of adolescent girls

I agree that one's culture can be a big influence on the

way adolescents grow up in society. American society

tends to focus on looks. Good looking people are

treated better in this society. This puts a tremendous

amount of pressure especially on adolescent girls. The

media also plays a big role on influencing these

adolescent girls to be gorgeous and flawless.

Adolescent girls are trying harder and harder to be like

sexy women.

Many young girls experience conflicts with their body

images. American society values thin women. In other

words, thin is in. The value of being thin in America

leads to further problems such as eating disorders and

body image disorders.

Message no. 207[Branch from no. 21]
Friday, February 7, 2003 11:12am
Subject Re: Conflicts of adolescent girls

The article was very good. I think the book is

something I will pick up and read for myself and

hopefully I can recommend it to some teenage girls that

I know. I agree that adolescent is a tough age to go

through. There are so many questions and so many things

going on. I think that during those years, it is

important that they have people that are stable in their

life to guide them and to accept them for who they are.

Teenage girls often turn to the media to define who they

are suppose to be and often times, it has horrible

consequences.

Message no. 40
Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:47pm
Subject Culture or biology? What

I wanted to focus on what may influence teenage girls

Message no. 41
Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:04pm
Subject Biology or culture? What is the bigger influence?

I wanted to focus on how biology and culture influence a

teenage girl's sense of self-worth.

The search terms I used were: culture and conflict with

teenage girls; how culture affects adolescent girls.

There weren't any problems with these searches. I used

the search engine Skworm (http://www.skworm.com)

This article "How Seventeen undermines young women" by

Kimberly Phillips describes how culture affects girls.

The popular teen magazine "Seventeen" was used as an

example of how today's popular culture makes an impact

on teenage girl's lives. It stated that "Seventeen"

mainly focused on one's appearance, and how to attract

guys. It didn't have many articles on serious issues

girls may be experiencing. This article's focus is on

how culture does influence people's lives.

www.beautyworlds.com/seventeenundermines.htm

The other article "Author:Biology more than culture

affects teen girls" by Sarah Myrick, emphasizes that

biology is the main cause of a teen girl's awkward stage

in life. It mentions that culture plays a small role in

influencing a teen.

www.s-t.com/daily/02-02/02-17-02/e01li129.htm

Both these articles make a good point, but the two

apsects go hand in hand. Therefore one shouldn't focus

on one aspect more than the other.

Message no. 45[Branch from no. 41]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:16pm
Subject Re: Biology or culture? What is the bigger influence?

I agree with you that biology and culture have a huge

impact on girls' feelings of self-worth and that neither

of the two should be given more importance than the

other. It's the whole nature vs. nurture debate.

Although the issue still has two sides, I think that

more people are slowly learning that the two are

inseparable. Like you said, the two go hand in hand.

I like how you presented two articles that have

differing views. It just goes to show that there is not

one definite answer.

Message no. 76[Branch from no. 41]
Sunday, January 26, 2003 7:43pm
Subject Re: Biology or culture? What is the bigger influence?

This is regarding "Biology or culture? What is the

bigger influence?

I agree with the articles in taking culture as the big

influence in affecting teenager girls sense of

self-worth. If you look in the media and in girls

magazines, there's always a picture of a pretty, skinny

girl. You'll never see a chubby, pretty girl, or a

skinny, ugly girl. It's always a pretty, skinny girl

with perfect hair and skin complexion. Looking at these

magazines is always the same. Just the other day I was

standing in line at a store and a young girl, with her

mother, picked up a magazine and said, "Hey mom, I want

my hair to look like this". It's sad to think that

young girls want to look like people in the magazine,

but you can't help it. I'll admit it, when I was

younger (and still now occasionally) I wished the same

think. I think it's a phase that every girl will go

through, and maybe some guys, in life whether they'll

admit it or not.

Message no. 191[Branch from no. 41]
Thursday, February 6, 2003 5:21pm
Subject Re: Biology or culture? What is the bigger influence?

I too, would have to agree that biology and culture

interact with each other. But personally, I think that

culture has a bigger influence on the way we think.

One reason is because culture has a HUGE impact on the

way we see ourselves. For instance, in most magazines

like glamour or seventeen, the girls are seen as pretty

and beautiful. We see that their hair and makeup is

flawless and wonder why can't I look like that.

Well wouldn't you agree that anyone can look good

now-a-days with technology/medicine? Girls can get

boob-jobs, liposuction, botox anything that can make

them look better or similair to the people in the

magazines. And why? Maybe because media tells/shows us

what THEY THINK beautiful is. And I capatalized (they

think) because we all think differently. And that is

just my point. We are influenced on what they think is

pretty and it affects us as individuals in society.

Message no. 55
Friday, January 24, 2003 3:29pm
Subject suicidal behavior in adolescent girls

For this week's research message, I was searching for

anything that was related to conflicts that adolescent

girls would have today. The search phrase that I used

was conflicts in adolescent girls. The information I

needed came up at my first attempt. Therefore, I had no

problems with this search. The search engine I used to

find the information ws google. The web address of the

article is:

http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2002/june/briefCommunicationPinhas.asp

In this article I found that the suicide rate in

adolescents has rose since the 1960 and 1980. I was

shocked to find that the suicide rate for young females

were much higher compared with young men. Young women

are at greater risks for attempting suicide because they

are exposed to different expectations than young men,

which causes gender-role conflict. Adolescent girls also

have more pressure about body image and appearance than

adolescent boys. This may cause the young woman to feel

insecure or depressed.

Message no. 58[Branch from no. 55]
Friday, January 24, 2003 3:53pm
Subject Re: suicidal behavior in adolescent girls

This is a comment message for Gail Baracao on "Suicidal

behavior in adolescent girls":

I read the article you recommended and I found it to be

an interesting study.

As for your comment "Adolescent girls also have more

pressure about body image and appearance than adolescent

boys. This may cause the young woman to feel insecure

or depressed," I agree with you saying that women are

led to feel insecure or depressed because of society's

perceived ideal body image. I'm not a guy, but I would

think that they probably have just as much pressue

about pursuing the ideal male body image. Just as how

female models are "thin," male models have that certain

"build." However, I can understand where you are coming

from. Maybe we just know more females than males who

are affected by this pressure. Maybe just being females

make us tend to "highlight' our side of the story more

than the males. Maybe if more males admitted that they

too get affected from peer/society's pressure to look

like the advertised models, then we would get a

different perspective.

Guys, what are your comments?

Message no. 71[Branch from no. 55]
Sunday, January 26, 2003 12:37am
Subject Re: suicidal behavior in adolescent girls

I was just wondering if the suicide rate you looked up

pertains to the United States as a whole or just to

Hawaii. I'm from the Northern Marianas and the suicide

rates down there are higher for males than for females,

but it has to do more with the culture. Back home males

are often taught not to show any emotion or just to keep

it inside because that is what they are taught so males

end up killing themselves as a form of expression that

they cannot handle the pressure of their problems.

Message no. 90[Branch from no. 55]
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:00am
Subject Re: suicidal behavior in adolescent girls

The media definately has a large part to play in the

misconceptions young women place upon themselves in

todays society. The pressure to fit a certain mold is

perpetuated daily in magazines, television commercials,

etc. My question is, can we point the finger to just one

culprit when it comes to suicidal behavior? I don't want

to down play the pressure the media puts on adolescent

girls, but I think it's important to realize that there

may be underlying factors to consider. I grew up being

the "fatboy" in elementary and intermediate school, so I

know how it feels to be ridiculed for your appearance

but not once did I ever think about killing myself for

that. As strong as the influence of the media is I feel

one's upbringing far outpasses it.

Message no. 388[Branch from no. 90]
Saturday, February 22, 2003 2:22pm
Subject Re: suicidal behavior in adolescent girls

This is in regards to Sean Arakaki's reply to Suicidal

Behavior in Adolescent Girls. I totally agree with what

you said about the media not being the only influence in

today's society. There are a lot of issues that need to

be examined as well. For instance one's culture is an

important factor. There are some cultures that think

big is beautiful and healthy, and view slenderness as a

sign of poverty. Unfortunately, practically every

American girl does not agree with this view. It's tough

living in a world where there is so much emphasis on

body image and beauty. People may say that inner beauty

is all that counts, but I don't see any evidence

supporting that statement.

Message no. 129[Branch from no. 55]
Saturday, February 1, 2003 11:12pm
Subject Re: suicidal behavior in adolescent girls

reply to Gail Baracao's message:suicidal behavior.

After I read the message, I checked the suicidal rate in

the US and Japan, just to see the difference. I'm so

surprised that the US has higher rate than Japan.

In our traddition, there is the tendency or already

legend?, we value on th virtue of suicide; however, the

time when suicide was idealized, there were only two

choices people had: suicide to maintain pride or live

with disgrace.

I personally don't have that chouice and I won't.

Message no. 200[Branch from no. 55]
Friday, February 7, 2003 7:44am
Subject Re: suicidal behavior in adolescent girls

I think one of the reasons that suicide rates have gone

up is that there is a whole other world that adolescent

have to deal with today rather than in 1960. I have

seen studies that were done in the 1960's compared to

more recent studies. The studies asked teenagers what

they had to be concerned with - what were their worries?

In the 1960's it was like; being late for class, am I

going to be asked out on a date, or who is going to

drive to the drive in. The more recent studies show

that teenagers worry about; nuclear war, physical

appearance, and paying rent. These types of issues seem

to be much more "real life" than in the 1960's. Kids

now days have a lot more difficult issues to deal with.

This could be some of the reason the suicide rate has

gone up.

Message no. 535[Branch from no. 55]
Thursday, March 13, 2003 10:17pm
Subject Re: suicidal behavior in adolescent girls

One reason, other than culture and biology that may have

influenced the suicide rate of adolesent girls is the

idea that girls handle problems and conflicts

differently than do boys. So it may be hard for many to

realte to the conditions under which girls precieve

things. I read on one site about an experiment in which

researchers watched a group of girls and a group of boys

and observed their discussion habits about some problem.

It turned out that girls would rather resolve a

conflict, while boys would rather forget about them.

When girls encounter a problem they tend to worry about

it, and in return they feel that it is best to reslove

the issue. This was beacuse the girls were more

supportive of each other and also that they possesed

better communication skills and were less likely to

withdrawl and or avoid their friends whom they had

problems with. Boys on the other hand tend to try to

avoid the problem for as long as possible, and hope that

all will be forgotten. This means that when a girl has

no one to turn to that she may selfdestruct due to the

fact that she was once so reliant on social support.

Another thing may be that since there is a whole new

spectrum of things for girls to worry abut today that

they have no one to turn to about all of the problems

that they have since their parents didn't experienca any

of the problems which they are experiencing today.

Message no. 87
Monday, January 27, 2003 9:00pm
Subject G is for Girl

I found a great website through Yahoo by typing

'conflicts with adolescent girls' in the subject

heading. Www.apa.org/pilcyf/adolesgirls.html#tee is an

all-encompassing site by an organization called

Children, Youth and Families (which I had never heard of

before).

Every risk facing young women today was covered there in

depth. Actual questions on topics such as emotions,

society, sex, health and many other issues were raised

by anonymous girls and then explored and answered by

experts.

I guess it really has been a while since I was an

adolescent girl (despite the fact that sometimes we

20-somethings still feel like it!) and the questions

these youth had about issues such as rape, abuse and

other red-letter topics shocked me. I wasn't thinking

about rape when I was 14 and it hurts to think that

early-awareness really is that prevalent for a

self-defense necessity.

The initial reason I wanted to be a Psychology major was

to become a high school counselor. I've since explored

other options, but this website I found really has

elicited my compassion and I'm wondering if maybe

high-school counseling really is the right area for me.

Message no. 100[Branch from no. 87]
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 8:44pm
Subject Re: G is for Girl

This is a response message to Christina Larson's "G is

for Girl".

I tried the link that you suggested but the APA homepage

popped up instead...do you mind double-checking the

link? It sounds like an awesome website.

I'm not sure how the situation is here in Hawaii, but in

Hong Kong (where I'm from), two or three high-schools

share one counselor. It seems to me that students in

Hong Kong are very reluctant to go see a counselor, coz

both the kids and their parents think that seeing a

counselor means you're "problematic". I guess it's

normal for an adolescent girl to have conflicts, as long

as she can talk to someone she trusts. By just talking

is therapeutic, I think.

Message no. 114[Branch from no. 87]
Friday, January 31, 2003 2:09pm
Subject Re: G is for Girl

This is a reply to Christina:

I know what you mean about having to think back to

adolescents and wondering what conflicts they are facing

today. I grew up all over, but mainly in Hawaii and

when I was doing this search I was wondering what WERE

the problems that teenage girls have today (besides the

eating disorders, suicide attempts, and the social

conflicts). I haven't been around any teenagers lately

so when I did my search I was not sure what I was

looking for until I stumbled on depression. I don't

remember any of my classmates being depressed at that

age and I thought it was interesting to see the evidence

behind this. I do remember our middle school counselors

having a rough time, but when I was that age, I thought

they were seeing the counselor because they were being

delinquent (the idea of depression never occurred to

me).

Message no. 270[Branch from no. 87]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 8:47pm
Subject Re: G is for Girl

Aloha Christina- It is both shocking and sad that these

young girls have to think about such cruel behaviors

which could be inflicted upon them. In a perfect world

they would be thinking about their first kisses not

about rape prevention. I don't have first hand knowledge

on this subject but if female adolescence is just as

riddled with uncertainty and transition as male

adolescence than I can whole-heartedly relate. These

girls have other issues they should be contending to and

it is depressing that abuse and rape take away from

that.Bye.

Message no. 401[Branch from no. 87]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 5:41pm
Subject Re: G is for Girl

I read your posting and I agree that adolescence is

hard, but I wonder why it seems to be harder for females

than males. Is it really harder or is that males are

less likely to talk about their uncomforable stage. It

seems that males would have the same pressures if not

more in school, sports, sex and ect. Are females just

more delicate? Or more open about their feelings of

discomfort. Does it have anything to do with how we were

raised, female vs. male?

Message no. 425[Branch from no. 87]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 2:06pm
Subject Re: G is for Girl

This is in reply to Christina's G is for Girl. I didn't

grow up a girl so I know I had a whole different set of

problems. It's good to know that there is support set

up to help adolescent girls in such a time of turmoil.

I wonder if there's anything like that for guys.

Although we probably wouldn't listen anyway. It's sad

to think that 14 year olds think about rape but it's

better than just having it happen--then the whole world

collapses around them.

Message no. 95
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:27am
Subject Conflicts of Teenage girls

I was searching for the conflicts of teenage adolescent

girls. I used the terms "Conflicts of Adolescent girls"

& "Teenage girls' conflicts". I didn't encounter any

problems. I used www.searchbug.com as my search engine.

It was a pretty good search engine, almost quite similar

to www.google.com.

The web address of the article I found was:

http://www.springfieldlibrary.org/nowread/apr01/

In this article, it talks about "Ophelia" who is a

Shakespearean character from the play "Hamlet". As an

adolescent, Ophelia loses her sense of self. Mary Pipher

who is the author of the book "Reviving Ophelia" quotes

that "During adolescence, girls lose themselves." There

is a conflict between the true self and the false self.

Culture plays a big part of the conflicts that young

women face today. Many teenage girls are or had

experienced depression, eating disorders, body image

disorders, and attitude changes such as rebelling

against parents/authority figures. I think that teenage

girls experience conflicts in order to really find out

who they are and will become. When these conflicts go

away or are resolved, it enables these teenage girls to

be stronger.

Message no. 224[Branch from no. 95]
Friday, February 7, 2003 10:13pm
Subject Re: Conflicts of Teenage girls

I'd agree that attitude rebelling etc are common and

even, perhaps beneficial for teenage girls (and indeed,

for a lot of teenage boys as well.) But some of these

things - depression, eating disorders, and the like have

no apparent benefit, but rather are fairly serious

problems that seem to be ever more common in the

states. At any rate, this was an interesting

post/article.

Message no. 115
Friday, January 31, 2003 2:11pm
Subject Young Girls and Depression

When I started searching, I was trying to get familiar with what types of key words were

present in a different search engine, so I did a general search at first on Conflicts of adolescent

girls. I used three different search engines: EBSCO HOST, CNN online, and Google. I used different

search engines because the first two were giving me problems. The articles listed included

adolescents as a whole or problems of adolescents as a whole. So I figured I should use CNN since

they tend to be specific, but they were more focused with eating disorders and suicide issues.

So then I tried Google and it worked on my first try because I decided to narrow my search

so that I might have a better chance of getting a particular article. Here are the search

terms I used:

EBSCO HOST: http://libweb.hawaii.edu/uhmlib/databases/multisubject.html#EBSCO (CLICK ON THE LINK FOR EBSCO)

adolescent girls + conflicts

conflicts of adolescent girls

"adolescent girls" and conflicts

"adolescent girls" and problems

"adolescent girls" and depression not related need to change search

SU "adolescent girls" and SU depression only 3 results

CNN: WWW.CNN.COM

problems of adolescent girls 57 hits

girls and depression 136 hits

(more about drugs and eating disorders)

Google: www.google.com

young girls + depression (337,000)

-some topics on women-

adolescent girls + depression (71,000)

1. Women's Mental Health Program

DEPRESSION IN ADOLESCENT GIRLS

http://www.med.umich.edu/psych/amb/pated/wadol.htm

This website gives a short summary about the prevalence and

factors associated with adolescent girls and depression.

2.National Institute of Justice

Adolescent Girls: The Role of Depressionin the Development of Delinquency

http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/fs000244.pdf

This article talks about researching depression as a predisposition

for antisocial behavior that could lead to delinquency early in life. It gives

possible reasons why they think depression acts as a preliminary sign to antisocial

behavior and focuses on young white girls in the middle to upper classes.

Message no. 228[Branch from no. 115]
Saturday, February 8, 2003 10:09pm
Subject Re: Young Girls and Depression

I think it is very sad to see how much young girls today

are suffering from depression. I think girls today go

through more problems and conflicts than boys because

when they go through the puberty stage, many teenage

girls go through a self-image problem. I remember when

I was in high school, there were many girls who were

insecure about themselves, which caused them to have low

self-esteem. Pressure about school and college can also

put a great deal of stress on teenagers. I know

personally that I felt very stressed out and depressed

when I was getting ready to leave high school for

college.

Message no. 318[Branch from no. 115]
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:05pm
Subject Re: Young Girls and Depression

I thought the article was very interesting. The only

concern I have is that the solution to adolescent

depression is psychotherapy. While therapy is very

helpful what are we doing about the many outside

influences that crate depression in young girls such as

problems at home, society, school, and the media's view

of women? All these factors have a large impact on

adolescents and while teaching self esteem and

confidence will help a young girl, when they are

bombarded with images that make them question their self

worth and appearance or reside in a home that is torn

and unsupportive what can we expect from these girls but

depression or worse. Therapy is not just a quick fix

solution, we need to take a look at the whole picture

and try to make changes where necessary. Lets have more

models that actually represent the "average" female

body, less vides with women in bikinis and as trophies,

more programs that teach consequences and empowerment

not one night stands and popularity, and finally

magazines for teens that focus on individuality and self

love not how to get that guy in 10 days or how to loose

those thighs in 5 days!

Message no. 133
Sunday, February 2, 2003 11:03am
Subject Anorexia Nervosa

For this research, I was looking for anything to do with

conflicts of adolescent girls. The search terms I used

was adolescent girls and conflicts. I had no problems

in my search. The web address for my article is:

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~excs597k/claudio/#Anorexia%20Nervosa

In this article, I found that Anorexia Nervosa almost

exclusively affects adolescent white girls (95%). The

anorexic girl becomes obsessed about her weight and body

image. Even when she is noticibly thin and underweight,

she cannot stop from starving. Reseachers agree that

the number of patients with anorexia nervosa is

increasing. They also describe anorexia nervosa

patients' families to be warm and loving on the surface,

but are unable to deal with the conflicts within the

family.

Message no. 259[Branch from no. 133]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:20am
Subject Re: Anorexia Nervosa

This is in response to Gail Baracao on Anorexia.

I took a Psychology of Women class last semester and we

intensively dealt with this issue. It's amazing how

much the media influences the desire for young women to

be extremely thin. Television and magazines most

especially are the main catalyst for sending out the

message that to be overweight is unaccepatable.

One fact I remember hearing from class was that within

minutes of opening a magazine a girl immediately feels

inadequate with herself based on the thin, airbrushed

models.

I hear there's a new reality tv on Anorexics. Geez, what

is this world coming to, it's like they're glamorizing

their lives and only giving them attention, even though

it is negative attention.

Message no. 287[Branch from no. 133]
Friday, February 14, 2003 12:23pm
Subject Re: Anorexia Nervosa

I took a couple of minutes to browse the site that you

had posted. Most of the information was not new to me,

but what I found shocking was the age range in which

they say anorexia will develop in American girls. It is

sad to think that girls as young as 10 years old have

such a distorted perception of their bodies that it

drives them to starve themselves. It is sad to think

that anyone, of any age or ethnicity would do such a

thing. But then again I can understand how they feel.

With the media feeding our nation horseshit about what

is "beautiful" and "sexy" it is no wonder that girls

would want to live up to those sometimes unachievable

expectations.

Message no. 141
Monday, February 3, 2003 5:09pm
Subject Adolescent female bullies

The issue of bullying in schools is becoming

progressively more prominent. With female adolescents

in particular, we have seen for the first time

consistantly, lawsuites against children for assaulting

other children. I decided to explore this more with

yahoo.com search engine. I used the words "adolescent

girls" and "bullies" and found an awesome site:

http://www.youthwork.com/issuesbully.html The site is

designed for adults to obtain information, but is

creatively designed for younger people to answer their

own questions. In addition to bullying, this website

addresses date rape, vioence in general, gangs, violence

prevention, and sexual abuse/assault. The section

specifically on bullying starts with a true story

written by a victim. It also includes tipsfor survving

being bullied, how to take action against bullies, and

even a little psychoanalysis as to where bully's

aggressive tendencies may come from. Even though middle

school was ten years ago and that's when I bore the

brunt of teasing, I definitly wish I had known then what

I know now. It's cliche and I guess you can say that

about pretty much anything, but it's true nonetheless.

Message no. 208
Friday, February 7, 2003 11:25am
Subject The Lost of Gifted Girls

I found an article called "Gifted Girls - Many Gifted

Girls, Few Eminent Women: Why?" in msn.com in the site

http://www.aboutourkids.org/articles/giftedgirls.html#right.

This article talked about how there are many gifted

girls, but when they reach the age of adolescence, they

lose their giftedness. It is not because they are not

gifted anymore but because giftedness is not viewed as

being acceptable or "cool" in adolescent girls. At that

age, they lose their self-confidence and self-esteem.

Also other feelings of discouragement and hopelessness

arises at that age in which discourages them from

pursuing their gift.

Also, girls who are smart tend to downplay their

academic skills in order to fit in. They don't want to

be known as the geek of the school. In leadership

positions, girls don't want to pursue it because they

don't want to be known as bossy.

Message no. 218
Friday, February 7, 2003 4:59pm
Subject conflicts of adolenscent girls

A. I searching for information about conflicts that adolenscent girls may be encountering in today's society.

B. The search terms that I used:

1. adolenscent girls; conflits

2. conflicts of adolenscents girls in society

C. There were no problems while searching for this topic.

D. The ssearch engine I used was: Google.com

E. The web adresses:

1. www.cyc.net.org/ft-teengirlIs3.html

2. www.mainelygirls.org/reports/zones.html

F. On both websites I found a lot of information about problems that girls encounter. They both talked about

societies influences. They talked about poverty, family of color, school teachers, mothers, and friends and

how they may influences lives.

1. The cyc.net website was an article about working with adolenscent girls in treatment centres. The author

gives three case examples.

2. The mainlygirls website talks about cultivating hardiness zones. I personally liked what the author

had to say in her report. She talked about how girls need to learn to cultivate "hardiness" zones so

they can challenge the world when challenges arises. I also liked this article because of her perspective.

She looks at adolescent conflicts from many perspectives. For example, stress, that many girls experience

during their adolescent years. She says one way to look at the stress is loss of control in many areas in

their lives. When I read that, it makes a lot of sense. As a adolencent girl once, I felt like I had no control

of my life. I was controlled by my parents and in a sense, their control, at a time when I was trying

to create MY own identity was hard to do. At times, I felt I couldn't be who I was because my parents,

society, no driving license controlled what I could and couldn't do.

Message no. 235
Sunday, February 9, 2003 11:03pm
Subject Research message: "The Conflicts of Adolescent Girls"

For this week's session I wanted to find any literature

on the conflicts adolescent girls go through as a result

of media influence. I used Google.com with the search

phrase "pressure adolescent girls". This phrase produced

a book review of "Reviving Ophelia: Saving the Selves of

Adolescent Girls". Written by Mary Pipher a Ph.d in

psychology, this book chronicles the lives of several

case studies experiencing the pressures placed upon

Twenty-first century girls. This review can be found at

www.topwritecorner.com/reviews/review26.htm. My second

search phrase was "media adolescent girls" which

produced "Reflection of Girls in the Media" a study on

how media affects gender. This study actually mentioned

positive female role modles as well as gender-biased

stereotypes. This site can be found at

www.childrennow.org/media/mc97/ReflectSummary.html. The

only problems I ran into during this session was

figuring out what search phrase to use.

Message no. 241
Monday, February 10, 2003 9:00pm
Subject conflicts

A. I was searching for new information about conflicts

with adolescent girls.

B. I used this phrase: "conflicts of adolescent girls"

C. There seems to be no problem when looking for this

topic.

D. I used the search engine Google.

E. The sites I found were:

1.www.averroes.cec.juntaandalucia.es/vertie/motivadores/adolesce.html

2.www.cpa-apa.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2002/june/briefComunicationPinhas.asp

F. The first website is about adolescent girls and boys

and how they resolve conflicts. A study was done on 30

adolscent females and 10 adolescent males. The

researchers observed best friends arguing about an issue

and watched how they deal with it. The results were

different styles between males and females and how they

handle conflicts. The females tried to resolve the

conflicts with their best friends by talking things out

while the males avoided talking things out.

The second website was published in the Canadian journal

of psychiatry. The title was gender-role conflicts and

suicidal behaviour in adolescent girls. The big

question that arises from this study is why girls are at

greater risk for attempted suicide. To sum up the

results, adolenscent females are learning about

themselves yet they are restricted and influenced by

societies, cultural, family, and peer expectaions of

what they should be like. In other words, there is so

much pressure on them.

One of the interesting things that the website mentioned

was that "girls are encouraged by society to identify

themsleves through relationships." I guess this might be

one explanation in why girls are more in tune to resolve

conflicts between others like the first website talks

about.

Message no. 258
Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:09am
Subject Teenage pregnancy

I used the search engine Infogrid to search for this

topic, however I found that the return results were too

broad and vague for me, so I decided to narrow down my

search to teenage pregnancy. I found this site:

http://www.15-25.com/education/sexeducation/teenagepreg.asp.

using the search term teenage pregnancy.

The article lists commmonly asked questions that a young

girl might have concerning pregnancy like "Can I get

pregnant if I have my period?" or "He came outside my

vagina, will I get pregnant?"

It also assures the reader that she has options when she

does find out that she is pregnant. Options include

adoption, abortion, putting the baby in foster care

until she is ready to take care of it or just keeping

the baby. It also has the pros and cons to each major

decision.

I recommend this site not just to teenage girls, but to

anyone caught in an unplanned pregnancy.

Message no. 300[Branch from no. 258]
Saturday, February 15, 2003 2:04pm
Subject Re: Teenage pregnancy

I'm glad you pointed out teenage pregnancy because it

is an important issue for adolescent girls. They need to

know the consequences of such actions. At a time when

they are still trying to find out who they are, peer

pressure can have a big influence on them. They are so

vulnerable to making decisions based on what others are

doing or saying to them.

I work at a high school and I was helping out in a

freshmen class just last semester. In that class, there

were two girls pregnant. They both seemed smart; they

always did their work and participated in class. I

couldn't help but think how young they were and just

how much more they could have had going for them if

they didn't have a baby to worry about. But if I thought

they were young, I still remember when I was going to

middle school, a girl giving birth when she was in the

7th grade. Her boyfriend left her and this poses another

problem: there are many young fathers leaving their

girlfriends. If the girls have to face their situation

everyday, then the least the guys could do is face their

reality and cope with undertaking the responsibility of

helping take care of their child.

Even UH had a Condom Fair on Valentine's Day to make

people aware of safe sex and other such issues. I mean,

if college students still need to be reminded of safe

sex and related issues, what more for adolescents?

Message no. 288
Friday, February 14, 2003 12:53pm
Subject female adolescence

Before doing a search on this topic I already had known

that female teens are more susceptible to depression

than are male teens, and I just wanted to find out more

about why that is the case. I did not encounter any

problems with this search. I used yahoo and did a search

on the terms "female, adolescent, and conflict" and

found this site:

http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content2/girls.html

First of all this article says that adolescence is a

time of significant decline in self-esteem especially in

girls. It explains that conflicts with self-concept,

academic achievement, self-image, and body-image are

some of the issues that are causing problems. This

article states that adults such as parents or teachers

are extremely influential during these years, and it

also provides a list of suggested strategies that they

can take in order to support adolescent girls during

these times through encouragement and reduction of

typical conflicts.

Message no. 315
Monday, February 17, 2003 11:50am
Subject how adolescent girls deal with it.

I read this article from:

http://averroes.cec.junta-andalucia.es/vertie/motivadores/adolesce.htm.

This website talks about a study of adolescents. It

says that adolescent girls would rather talk to their

best friends than their parents and that adolescent

girls have better intimate relationships with their

friends. So their supportive network are their friends.

Message no. 317
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:03pm
Subject girls group

I went to this website:

http://www.eqtoday.com/archive/jpcgirls2.html. On this

website they talk about this "girl group" that was

established for adolescent girls, so that they could

talk aobut their problems. In this group the girls

found different perspectives on problems and different

solutions for problems. They also talked about other

important day-to-day activities and things that were

important to them. I'm not sure what state this is done

in but, I think this group is a great idea.

Message no. 319
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:07pm
Subject response to emiko message #21

Yes. I agree with you and the website that girls are

treated very differently in schools then boys.

Sometimes the different treatment is good but, most of

the time it's bad. Administrators always insist that

girls behave a certain way and girls are monitored more.

When a girl does something wrong it's immediately

picked up on and when a boy does something bad...it's

just a boy thing.

Message no. 320
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:11pm
Subject response to marie message #41

I think the article is right to a certain extent but,

the author must also think about what seventeen stands

for. It's giving the typically adolescent girl what she

wants. It doesn't claim to be a serious magazine of

anysort. Also, just because the author picked up one

seventeen magazine and it did not hold a serious

article, that does not mean that the magazine does not

include them in.

Message no. 360
Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:55pm
Subject Korean and Romani girls

I have yet again utilized Yahoo.com and found that they

had a wide array of articles pertaining to this subject.

I wanted to know more about girls from other societies

so I chose an article detailing the conflicts of Korean

girls concerning commercialism and on Romani girls

concerning early marriage. The adresses are below:

www.makerere.ac.ug/womenstudies/full%20papers/kongo.html

and the one about Romani girls:

www.romove.cz/romove/teens.html

The first article related how Korean girls express

themselves by their clothes and appearence. This

expression is so important that it illicits a specific

pleasure which is driven by consumption. When they

become familiar with this pleasureable experiences they

realize the importance of money and the article contends

that they will do just about anything for the aquisition

of money. The author claims that there is not a real

negative viewpoint amoung Korean and Japanese females

concerning prostitution and that the money gained from

it justifies the means. I have never been to Korea but

my mom is full Korean and I know that her and her six

sisters are definately against prostituting oneself so I

don't know how accurate the authors' assumptions are.

Personally I think he's wrong in his comments concerning

the social outlook of Korean girls toward prostitution.

The article on the Romani girls was interesting. The

author comments that the end of a Romani girls childhood

and adolescence is when she starts her own family (no

matter what age). It is also claimed that these girls

are more ready for marriage socially compared to

biologically (avg. age of marriage=14-16). This is

because at the critical stage of adolescence, marked in

America by rebellion and defiance, these girls are

helping their mothers with her many children. This is

done to prepare the girl for her future husband. I came

away from this article feeling that a part of these

girls lives are stolen from them and that they are

forever detained in some sort of social prison. It could

be my biased Western world thinking but the fact remains

that these girls are never able to be fully

self-realized because of the constraints placed upon

them, first by their families then by their

adult(sometimes old men)husbands.

 

Message no. 404[Branch from no. 360]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 9:56pm
Subject Re: Korean and Romani girls

I thought that this was a very interesting article

because my mother is also full Korean. Although she is

into clothing and appearance, she would never agree to

prostitution. She always told me and my sister that we

should always respect our bodies and prostitution,

pornography, etc., is a way of disrespect. I also know

a lot of people from Korea, including my family, and

they all think that prostitution is disgusting. I do,

on the other hand, believe that many Korean people do

have a problem with being superficial. The Korean

people that I know love money and love to buy nice and

expensive things.

Message no. 406[Branch from no. 360]
Monday, February 24, 2003 3:31am
Subject Re: Korean and Romani girls

I found this topic interesting because I do not think

that it is just Korean girls that are overwhelmed by the

things that money can buy. I've seen a lot of really

good girls that I went to highschool with end up being

prostitutes. But it is not like these girls woke up one

day and thought to themselves, "Hey I really need money.

Maybe I should just sell my body so that I don't ever

have to worry about money." These girls had a lot of

family problems and eventually ran away from home. Then

met all the wrong guys, that introduced them into a very

appealing "party" lifestyle where they don't ever have

to worry about money. Many start off as waitresses,

work at hostess bars, then go on to be strippers, and if

they don't get all drugged out and die, they end up at

the massage parlors selling their bodies.

Message no. 400
Sunday, February 23, 2003 5:35pm
Subject Gender role conflict of adolescent girls

I'm researching for conflicts of adolescent girls. I

Used Yahoo and typed in the search terms: female

adolescent conflicts. I had no problem picking the match

I was most interested in, it read gender role conflict.

Here is the link I drew my following information from:

http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2002/june/briefCommunicationPinhas.asp

The Canadian Journal of Psychiatry did a study that

examined how the gender-role conflict, influences the

suicidal behavior of adolescent girls. The study found

that the gender-role conflict plays an important part in

the suicidal behavior of adolescents. The study says the

suicide rate of young girls is 10.1% where as young men

is only 3.8%. Some of the reasons the female rate is so

much higher is, that adolescent girls suffer from more

depression and pychologial strssors, like difficulty

with family, peers, school or the law. I remember how

hard it is to go through adolescence and I agree that it

is a difficult time. Our bodies where changing, there

were lot's of pressure by peers, family and society. I

hated adolescence, thoes were the akward years where no

one seemed to understand.

Message no. 405
Sunday, February 23, 2003 10:11pm
Subject self mutilation

The specific aspect of the research topic I was

searching for was self mutilation. The search terms

that I used was teenage girls and self mutilation. I

did not have any problems while searching because the

first site that came up was what I wanted. The search

engine that I used was google. The web address of the

sete is:

http://www.observer.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,718183,00.html.

This article was interesting and sad because a lot of

young girls are cutting and hurting themselves. Girls

self mutilate themselves as a way of acting out or a cry

for help. It can also relieve pain they are feeling

emotionally. By cutting themselves, it makes them feel

like they are letting the paing they are feeling out.

This is dangerous because self-mutilation can sometimes

lead to death. I volunteered at Kahi Mohala when I was

sixteen years old and I read about a girl that died

because she bled to death after slicing and cutting her

arm numerous times.

Message no. 433[Branch from no. 405]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:29pm
Subject Re: self mutilation

I agree that this is a very important topic. Sometimes

adults forget how extreme every problem can seem to an

adolescent. Parents may ignore what they consider

trivial, but to an emotional girl it might seem like the

end of the world. I had a friend in high school who cut

herself for a long time because she said it made her

"feel something" instead of nothing. I think it happens

more than we realize and adults need to take kids

problems more seriously before they get to the extreme

of self mutilation or worse.

Message no. 412
Tuesday, February 25, 2003 5:03am
Subject Adolescent suiciide

In my search I was looking for anything that related to

reasons for suicide attempts in adolescent girls . The

search terms I used were, adolescent girls suicide.

There were no specific problems with this search. I

found this article using the search engine

www.google.com The web address of the article I looked

at is: http://www.focusas.com/Suicide.html

This web article looks at the major risk factors of

suicide among young people today. One part of the

article that I found interesting explains how most

people think of potential suicides as sensitive, shy

people who are overwhelmed by life. When in fact the

cocky, obnoxious adolescent has exactly the potential

for suicide. This article closes off by saying that

parents must pay atteention to how their child acts and

notice any signs of long term depression.

Message no. 495[Branch from no. 412]
Friday, March 7, 2003 1:09am
Subject Re: Adolescent suiciide

This is such a sad subject to discuss. Teen suicide is

problem in Japan as well. I believe one main cause is

"Ijime" or nasty bully by school mates. The victims

often leave suicide notes in which they confess their

feelings of agony and anger against the ill-treatment

from bullies. In most cases, their family or teachers

are usually not aware of the situation. The solution

to this situation will be to have a good communication

between caregivers and teen children at all times.

Message no. 432
Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:18pm
Subject The EVIL of Sex

Adolescent girls experience sooo many conflicts that I

could post a three page message simply listing them, but

instead I am concentrating on the conflict between the

cultural script of sex and what adolescent girls

romanticize it to be. The onset of adolescence used to

be hailed at 13, when a child becomes a teenager and it

used to also be about when they entered puberty. Today

girls enter adolescence at a much earlier age because

they have the knowledge and are acting like an

adolescent at an earlier age. This is in part because

girls are reaching puberty at a younger age and because

they are engaging in adult behaviors such as sex (among

other things!) at very early ages. Sex is very

important to young girls, it affects how they dress,

act, talk, and think. The problem is that schools often

send no message or destructive messages to young girls

about sex and don't address the pre-formed ideas that

girls already have about it. This creates a conflict

for girls between what their peers say and what

authority says about sex, and during adolescence they

are much more likely to listen to their peers.

I used the a new search engine this time, skworm.com,

because it seemed that many of my classmates were having

success with it. I found a lot of information with my

search "conflict between adolescent girls and the

cultural mold," and my favorite site was

www.ed.uiuc.edu/EPS/PES-yearbook/1999/gosselin_body.asp

It's a well written essay examining, among many other

topics, the content of sex education classes and how

they conflict with the ideal that adolescents have about

sex. Though the literature she refers to is from the

70's and 80's, it is still valuable and some of this

curriculum is probably still taught today. The purpose

of many sex-ed classes was to show the destructive

outcomes of premarital heterosexual sex and to encourage

abstinance through fear. The three main themes that

were entertained were violence, victimization, and

morality. Classes that focused on violence concentrated

on the occurrances of rape and coersion when an

adolescent engages in sex. They portray sex as violent,

painful, and leading to STDs. Classes with the theme of

victimization focused on a girl's vulnerability. They

portray men as manipulators who only are with a girl to

use her for sex and then drop her. It also involves the

probability of becoming diseased because the man does

not care enough to protect the girl from it. The third

theme is morality which views chaste self control as

important. They stress that a girl should deny her own

desires to grow up healthy and chaste. The problem with

these three views of sexual education is that none of

them allow for healthy exploration and understanding of

a girl's own body and desires, which is a popular view

now. Sex is natural and girls will be curious about it.

For all of history sex has been romanticized by females

and it will continue to be. For sex-ed to be effective

and solve adolescent conflict it needs to address the

views that girls have toward sex instead of focusing on

destructive extremes.

Message no. 596[Branch from no. 432]
Friday, March 21, 2003 3:12pm
Subject Re: The EVIL of Sex

Once again I am going to say that parents have to be

responsible for their children. Why do we expect the

government to once again step into our lives and educate

kids on subjects that their parents should be? I do not

want the government in my life. These are issues that

people need to think about before having sex and

creating a child. This is the responsibility of being a

parent. We need to start educating our kids on using

their brains and thinking on their own. Kids are not

stupid. The school should have no part in this besides

giving the biological facts. Yes - puberty is coming a

lot earlier. So guess what - you need to talk to your

kids at a younger age. In high school we all know that

sex can lead to having babies. So why do so many

teenagers get pregnant? It starts with talking and

reasoning with your kids. Get off your asses and start

parenting. You choose to do an act that gave you a

baby. If you are not ready for being a parent, why are

you having kids? We have why too many options in todays

world. There is birth control, abortion, adoption, and

the morning after pill, to name a few. Use it!!! That

is what it is there for. I am getting so sick of paying

for others mistakes. If you are going to do an adult

act, then you are going to have to act as an adult. NO

EXCUSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Message no. 503
Friday, March 7, 2003 2:01pm
Subject Pacific Islanders and Eating Disorders

I did a general search on what I could find on Pacific

Island adolescent girls. I used a search engine

mentioned by another person previously, www.skworm.com,

and it gave me good results, but i had to go back to the

search page to save the address because it displays your

results in frames.

Here were my search terms:

Pacific Islanders +adolescents (5,600 hits)

Pacific Islanders +adolescents + culture (2,140)

Pacific Islanders +adolescents + culture + girls (742

HITS)

Pacific Islanders +adolescents + culture + girls + self

(637 hits)

I found an eating disorder information sheet which

basically talks about different Pacific Island girls

that have eating disorders as well as giving tips to

parents about what they should do about it.

Here's the link if anyone wants to check it out, it's

pretty short.

www.4woman.gov/BodyImage/Bodywise/uf/Asian%20American%20Girls2.pdf

Message no. 520[Branch from no. 503]
Sunday, March 9, 2003 9:04pm
Subject Re: Pacific Islanders and Eating Disorders

I thought this was a good article because I have done a

lot of research on eating disorders and I, too, thought

eating disorders were most common amongst white girls.

I don't know about other asian american girls, but I

know that korean girls are highly self-conscious about

their body image. A lot korean girls are raised to

believe that thinness and beauty is very important. I

noticed that this culture do not even realize that they

have issues and a preoccupation with weight; they think

it is normal to semi-starve.

Message no. 595[Branch from no. 520]
Friday, March 21, 2003 2:57pm
Subject Re: Pacific Islanders and Eating Disorders

Is it just Korean girls? I would think not. I believe

this is a worldwide problem. Doesn't this idea of women

being thin = beauty exist everywhere? All over the

world (with the exception of a few cultures) being a

beautiful women does mean being thin. This is a world

wide problem. How sad to think that us women seem to be

programmed as young children to be thin. There are now

5 year olds that are on diets. How disgusting is this?

The last thing a 5 year old needs to be worried about is

their weight. At that point in their life, they need

more food and calories than as an adult. It is time for

women across the world to overlook this value (beauty =

thin) and be concerned about the type of person you are.

Do you have integrity? Are you trying to solve

problems rather than create them? Are you happy with

yourself? If the women across the world would come to

together and battle against these values being ingrained

in the mind of our kids, we would have a much better

place to live in. We could have more power over our

"man" world and make this place a better place to live

in.

Message no. 580
Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:58am
Subject Girls forced into Polygamy

I used the search terms 'strict parents, teeange girls'

to search for how teenage girls dealt with strict

parents, but I didn't really find anything specific. I

did run across an article about how teenage girls were

fleeing fundamenatlist sects to avoid being a wife to a

polygamist man. I found this article on MSN at

http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/082301/usn_toavoid.shtml

The article talks about a girl named Caroline Cooke who

escaped from her polygamist community called

Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day

Saints. The first thing she did was cut her knee-length

hair to an above-the-shoulder bob. She also traded her

full-length dresses for sleeveless shirts and shorts.

These were radical and symbolic moves for the

15-year-old who walked away from her family and her

religion, which encourages pioneer-style long hair and

long dresses for women. Cooke left because she feared

she soon would be married to a man three times her age

who already had more than a dozen wives.

It's sad that among the many other things a teenage girl

worries about, the girls from this community have to

worry about being forced to marry a man with a dozen or

more other wives. This goes back to the idea that a

woman is just a posession, subject to the wants and

needs of a man. These girls who've run away from their

communities must face being on their own because they

are no longer welcome in their families.

Message no. 583[Branch from no. 580]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 5:03pm
Subject Re: Girls forced into Polygamy

This story reminds me of how my parents were REALLY

STRICT with my older sister...she was really wild and

they tried everything to discipline her, but in the end

she went her way and my parents went another way...so

when I got older my parents realized that they were way

too harsh on my sister and they were worried about my

future because they didn't want me to end up like my

sister so they relaxed a bit.

I guess parents feel a need to be strict because they

feel that that's the only way they'll protect their

children, but I feel that it won't help parents nurture

their relationships with their children will be too

scared to speak up and let them know how they feel.

Message no. 592
Friday, March 21, 2003 11:12am
Subject alcohol use

A. Today's searching was on alcohol use amoung teenage

girls.

B. The search terms I used were: "Alcohol abuse in

girls" and "drinking underage"

C. I didn't encounter any searching problems. However,

there are so many articles about this topic that it's

very time consuming.

D. The search engine used was WebCrawler. I really

like this search engine because it also automatically

rewords the phrases you are looking for.

E. The website: www.health.org/govpubs/rpo993/

F. I found two interesting things on this website. The

first was "puberty tends to bring higher incidence of

depression amoung teenage girls, which can trigger

alcohol use. One study found symptoms of depression in

one in four girls, a rate that is 50% higher than in

boys". The second was that teenage girls are more

likley to drink to fit in with their friends than boys.

Message no. 612[Branch from no. 592]
Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:23pm
Subject Re: alcohol use

I thought this article was kind of depressing because so

many girls go through depression and use alcohol. I

remember when I was in high school and almost all my

girlfriends were into drinking and smoking. I think

that most of them did it to "fit in" and also because of

peer pressure. It's funny now because now all my

friends are of legal age to drink and a lot of them keep

their drinking to a minimal amount. I think that in

high school a lot of girls drink to get drunk because

they think that they look cool, but when you are finally

of age to drink, it is not as exciting.

Message no. 593
Friday, March 21, 2003 11:35am
Subject weight problems

A. My search for today was on new information about how

the media's skinny females may produce negative thoughts

about how you see yourself when comparing them to you.

B. The search terms I used were: "media's influences

on girls weight" and "weight problems amoung girls"

C. While searching for today's topic, I found no

problems.

D. The search engine I used was www.findarticles.com I

would recommend this search engine because it has more

scholarly information.

E. The web address:

www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m2294/2000_May/65306527/

F. This article was published in Sex Roles: A Journal

of Research. The title was Television situation

Comedies: Female weight, Male negative comments, and

audience reactions.

One of the interesting things about this article was

that it studied 18 prime television situation comedies

(two eposides each) and it examined the body weights of

37 central female actors. The results were that the

females that were underweight were overpresented while

the heavier ones recieved negative comments about her.

Also in this article, I found that only 5% of female

characters were rated as "heavy" whereas 69% if female

characters were rated "thin".

The end of this article concludes that the message sent

to female viewers is that attractiviness means being

"thin".

Message no. 634[Branch from no. 593]
Sunday, March 30, 2003 12:56pm
Subject Re: weight problems

It was quite disturbing to read that 69% of females

rated on those shows were considered thin, while only 5

% were seen as heavy. The population of American's

growing overweight has increased therefore why do they

depict America as a nation full of skinny people? I

think the media should be more in tune with reality so

teenage girls won't have to think that they have to

comform to the false society that America's media

portrays. I liked your search topic, and I think that

America does communicate that attractiveness = thin.

Message no. 636
Sunday, March 30, 2003 9:42pm
Subject Are there any more positive role models on t.v.?

My search was based on the conflicts of teenage girls

influenced by the media. I used the search engine:

http://www.skworm.com I had no problems with the search

using the phrase: teenage girls and their problems.

I found the site

http://www.childrennow.org/media/mc97/ReflectSummary.html

This was a study about gender and the media. At first

it says the media provides positive female role models

for girls. Many of the women on t.v. shows are shown as

independent and solve their own problems. The study

also found that the media reinforces the female

sterotype, and emphasizes the importance of a woman's

appearance.

This study shows that the media does provide somewhat of

a role model for girls, but it also makes girls see that

the media reinforces beauty and female stereotypes.

Message no. 669[Branch from no. 636]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 6:57pm
Subject Re: Are there any more positive role models on t.v.?

I looked at the site about gender and the media. I

thought this site contains many interesting information.

I got the feelings that girls are more sensitive than

boys in terms of the media.

Message no. 647
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 6:34pm
Subject problems with our society

I used google as the search engine and typed "feminists

and adolescent girls" and found an article called

"Beyond Choice: Culture, Adolescence, and Feminism"

http://www.digitas.harvard.edu/~perspy/old/issues/1996/mar/alice.html

"Because adolescence is viewed as a period of rapid

maturation, girls are aware that they are expected to

undergo a transformation from girls to women, a

transformation which radically alters their conception

of self. Psychologist Mary Pipher writes that,

"adolescent girls experience a conflict between their

autonomous selves and their need to be feminine, between

their status as human beings and their vocation as

females." Femininity is defined for girls by the

surrounding culture. Images of feminine beauty bombard

girls in ads, films, television, and music. Models and

actresses define the desired body size and shape.

Passive women are sexy women. These prescribed and

warped notions of womanhood wreak havoc on adolescent

girls."

Basically, this article is about how the culture a

adolescent girl is a part of, pretty much defines her or

at least tries to mold her into a person to fit into

that society/culture and it doesn't matter what her own

concept of "self" means to her.

Message no. 668
Thursday, April 3, 2003 6:29pm
Subject 'It sucks being a teenage girl'

My searching terms were "teenage, girl, conflict." I had

no problem in finding the following article. This site

is from the Health Report Newsmagazine home page.

http://report.ca/archive/report/20020812/p45i020812f.html

According to the author, Candis McLean, about three

times as many teenage girls as boys attempt suicide.

While 3.8% of young men try to kill themselves, the

corresponding figure for young women is 10.1%, one in

10. Toronto researchers focused on gender-role conflict

as a possible reason. Psychiatrist Leora Pinhas

explains, "Young girls are expected to do three

conflicting full-time jobs: they are supposed to be

caregiving and emotional as well as superwoman, and also

thin and beautiful, exercising all the time. On the flip

side, they are often restricted more than boys."

On the other hand, Retired psychiatrist Ben Wong

believes that although girls have increased freedom

today, it is more difficult to find a role with a sense

of meaning--some reason to survive.

Message no. 826[Branch from no. 668]
Monday, April 14, 2003 8:06pm
Subject Re: 'It sucks being a teenage girl'

It does suck, it seems that being born female

automatically puts us at the disadvantage. We have

multiple roles as mother, wife, employees, etc., that

we're all supposed to balance and be good at. Just

thinking about this reminds me of my boyfriend whose mom

seperated from her husband because she had all these

roles that she was expected to excel at, the pressure

was just too much and she had to get away. I feel like

this and I'm not even married. I hate having to come

home from school, then work and have to cook for my

boyfriend and having to do homework after........it's

just so draining.

Message no. 694
Friday, April 4, 2003 8:52am
Subject Re: Teen girls and society

I did a search on teen girls and the influence of

society. I search under yahoo (under society & culture,

issues and causes)and used the phrases, "teen girls

influenced by society" and "teen girls and society". No

troubles at all.

I found a good article at

www.womensenew.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/868/context/archieve

It talks about the 'Teen Voices' magazine that was

created by Alison Amoroso. Its a magazine that's

written by and for teens. The content of the magazine

is to try to change the society's view of teenage girls.

The interesting about this magazine is that 95% of the

editors are african american, asian or latino, and

nearly 60% of them have learning disabilities. Not the

typical magazine you will see. Also, every cover

features a racial mix, rather than caucasian.

Some of the recent articles that were published were,

"Being adopted by my family" and Because you're more

than just a pretty face". Not the typical article's

you'll see.

I thought this a good way to start changing the views of

society. By seeing a variety of people in magazines

will not limit teens to stick to the pretty, teen image.

Message no. 703[Branch from no. 694]
Friday, April 4, 2003 8:35pm
Subject Re: Teen girls and society

I'm glad that you pointed out that in one way - having a

magazine that caters to diversity, not the

stereotypical

made-beautiful-through-computer-retouching images and

superficial stories - can start changing society's

views. These magazines that are more "real" can

definitely boost up the confidence in women who do not

possess the looks that are commonly portrayed in the

media. They will also relate more to "serious" stories

that pertain to "real" life.

I remember being a teenager. I was never part of the

"popular" crowd in school, but I always heard girls

talking about magazines, magazines, magazines - whether

it be about a cute guy on TV, quizzes on how to win

over a guy, blah blah blah. Personally, I was never

into it, but I can see how the influence of magazines

persist through the years. It's ridiculous and quite

pitiful that some girls are made to feel they have to

have the body the models in the magazines have. Even

just looking at some of the types of clothing in

magazines makes me wonder what the magazine editors

want girls to think - buy this outfit and you'll look

cool, but of course, you would have to lose weight

first to fit into it or waste your money to buy all

these "in" things? It's ironic that some magazine

editors and the like make a living trying to make us

"lose" something, whether it be weight, money,

un-cool-ness?

Message no. 730
Sunday, April 6, 2003 2:45pm
Subject to sex, or not to sex...

when thinking about one of the things that really

weighed on my mind, as an adolescent male (around 13 or

14)...i find that a common topic of talk at that age was

girls...and more specifically...sex, with girls.

i know it sounds young, but its true. and when looking

at the web site:

http://www.focusas.com/SexualBehavior.html it dawns on

me that it must be very difficult for girls at that age

to grow up, and function, with horny little boys like me

running around. i'll be the first to admit, one of the

only things that occupies a little boy's mind around 14

or 15 is "sex." this pressure constantly coming from

boys must be a terrible load for a young girl to endure.

and we don't realize it at the time, until you're in

your early-mid 20s, doing a psychology class and

researching the topic on the internet.

i just hope that i, when i do become a father, can

communicate effectively enough with my son or daughter

about the topic so that they are not pressuring, or

feeling pressured about sex, and being sexually active.

Message no. 751[Branch from no. 730]
Tuesday, April 8, 2003 12:33am
Subject Re: to sex, or not to sex...

This was a very interesting topic. But in response to

your openness and honesty, not all girls have the

pressure of sex. Despite the fact that I knew that most

of the boys that I dated just wanted to have sex, I

never gave in let alone even kissed a guy. I think it

has a lot to do with how your parents raise you. I was

taught to respect myself in all ways especially

sexually. Even without the guidance of my parents, I

would never have let a guy have the best of me unless I

was in love, which would be after high school.

Message no. 775[Branch from no. 730]
Thursday, April 10, 2003 12:21am
Subject Re: to sex, or not to sex...

I never knew that sex was on boys minds at such a young

age, but I'm not surprised. I mean they probably saw

adults having sex on television already.

As for your comment on the pressures of sex, I don't

think, or can't remember facing such a pressure as a

teenager. I personally, think that boys face more

pressures about sex then girls. First of all, men like

to brag and stuff about their sexual encounters to their

friends. So maybe it's like a competion for boys at the

age? --Who can get "laid" first. As for girls, it's

suppose to have meaning so waiting is easy. But I don't

know, everyone is different!

Message no. 779[Branch from no. 730]
Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:54pm
Subject Re: to sex, or not to sex...

I agree with the Gail and Alicia, who have already

posted their comments to your discussion message. I was

never faced with such sexual pressure. I also think

that boys, more often than girls, seem to face more of

that pressure. I remember hearing guys talking about

"scoring" with girls and my Social Studies teacher

asking us why teenagers use the analogy of baseball

(reaching bases, etc.). And I used to hear guys

bragging about having sex, too. For instance, there was

a football player who told his fellow buddies that he

"did it" with so-and-so; he even showed them her

underwear.

Anyway, I think you brought up a good point about

communicating effectively to your children (in the

future, when you are a father) about the pressures of

sex. For a time, wasn't it a controversial issue -

about sex education being taught in schools? Well, I

think that parents should make sure that their kids

know about it and that they shouldn't give in even

though they are being pressured. I mean, I would hate

my children to learn about sex from watching tv; we all

know that tv isn't always credible. Also, their own

peers might mislead them. I know that it might be

difficult to discuss the topic, especially when they

are teenagers, but it's better to have parents express

their concern about the pressures of sex rather than

find out one day that their teenage daughter is

pregnant or that their son impregnated someone.

Message no. 750
Tuesday, April 8, 2003 12:26am
Subject bulimia nervosa

For this research I was searching for anything to do

with teenage girls and self image problems. The search

terms that I used was "conflicts in teenage girls." I

did not encounter any problems with this search because

there was more than enough information. The search

engine that I used was Google. The web address is:

http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Eating_Disorders/beat_bulimia

In this article I found that many young women are

strugling with bulimia nervosa. The symptoms are not

always visible because unlike anorexia, bulimic patients

tend to be of normal weight. The disorder, however, is

deadly. There are many internal symptoms such as:

kidney and liver failure, ruptured esophogus, and loss

of electrolytes.

Message no. 776
Thursday, April 10, 2003 3:06pm
Subject Girls and Sports

I used the search terms "teenage girls, conflicts" at

google.com, I wanted to find examples of problems that

adolescent females experience. I didn't have a hard

time finding this site.

http://www.sportengland.org/active_communities/acf/girlsport.htm

The article talks about Girlsport a new program that

enhances communication and understanding of the issues

that affect teenage girls enjoyment, involvement and

progress in sport and physical activity. One goal is to

increase participation of girls in sports to encourage

teenagers, and the adults that influence them, to share

ideas and problems associated with the conflicts that

often occur as girls approach and experience puberty. By

raising awareness and tackling these issues it is hoped

that less young women will drop out from sport and

physical activity at this crucial time.

The workshop aims to challenge some of the

misconceptions and misunderstandings that often exist

and encourages everyone to find solutions to many of the

challenges that teenage girls face.

I think this is an excellent program for teenagers. I

read somewhere that girls who participate in sports have

higher self-esteem than girls who don't. I can see how

this works because sports teaches individuals about

teamwork, getting along with each other, and also

produces healthy competition. Girls can also feel

competent in their ability to play a sport and keep

their bodies fit.

Message no. 792
Friday, April 11, 2003 4:30pm
Subject Acculturation/Assimilation of immigrant teenagers

I wanted to find out more about acculturation issues for

immigrant teenagers, not necessarily just the

experiences of females per se because it affects both

females and males. I have been working with the ESL

(English as a Second Language) department at a public

high school for four years now and I have seen students

grow and change in many ways throughout the years.

Their clothing style changes; many opt to wear what

they see on TV. They change the way they talk, trying

to use terms they hear other students say, including

swear words. The bottom line is that they face

pressures to "fit in," but sometimes I think some of

them try too hard or change for the worse.

Using the search phrase "acculturation + immigrant" in

Google, I had no problems retrieving relevant articles.

 

1) http://members.aol.com/lacillo/immigrant.html

There are five stages of adaptation: silent stage,

uprooting stage, culture shock,

acculturation/assimilation and mainstream stage.

2)

http://www.ndol.org/blueprint/2002_jan-feb/33_immigra

nt.html

In regards to first generation immigrants (the ones who

immigrated to America), the authors state, "It is their

offspring, the second generation, whose successes and

failures will set the mold for their ethnic groups,

determining patterns that will last for generations to

come." They also say that "...rapid acquisition of

English is 'language loss,' what others see as fitting

in is 'premature Americanization,' and the most

effective methods of teaching English and American

values are so much 'forced-march acculturation.'"

Message no. 832
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 11:20am
Subject Is a Happy Teenager a Healthy Teenager?

I used the searching terms, "rebellious stage." I had no

problem in finding the following article with Google

searching engine.

http://www.books-reborn.org/white/articles/1997_happy.html

The article written by White presents a four-level

ecplanation of teenage aggressive feelings and behavior.

Level 1: antisocial anger Level 2: Social anger Level

3: passive resistance Level 4: goodness

Adonescent anger can be shown in an antisocial way, in a

passive way, ina healthy way, or not at all. In

addition teenagers, like adults, have a choice in how to

respond to and take care of angry feelings. One of the

advantagees of anger is to provide a way of breaking the

bond with mother and father, thereby allowing a new

sense of independence.

Message no. 864
Saturday, April 19, 2003 6:07pm
Subject In a different culture

I looked up this subject under www.aol.com. I entered

the keywords adolescent girl conflicts. I found an

article at http://www.ifuw.org/pgwnet/tongan.pdf. I

found this article very interesting because it gave the

perspective of a different culture. The Tongan's have

not had a lot of American culture until the past few

years. This bombardment of sexual and violent images is

having an impact on their own culture. This poses a

problem for their society as it is influencing and

changing the way they live. Tongan adolescents have

usually ben the quiet ones in society and are now

behaving in more outrageous ways. This is particularly

interesting to the topic because it provides a study

environment where an experimenter can assess the

difference before an after the influence of television.

Message no. 998[Branch from no. 864]
Posted by Marie Shimomura (Marie_S) on Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:56pm
Subject Re: In a different culture

I liked how you took this topic into the perspective of

another culture. I think this really does proove how

television and the media can greatly affect people.

It's sad how these images are changing the youth in

Tonga. If there were stricter policies on what is shown

in television, movies, etc. then things could be

different. Obviously the invasion of the mass media in

Tonga did influence people. The people who create these

violent programs should realize how influential they can

be.

Message no. 900
Friday, April 25, 2003 2:11pm
Subject Sexual abuse

One of the commonly know conflicts of children and

adolescents is sexual abuse. I wanted to find some

statistics about sexual abuse in adolescents and

children. I found an informative site:

http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats.htm the site

lists many stats. on sexual abuse such as: "67% of

victims of sexual assault were juveniles ( under

age 18); 34% of sexual assault victims were under age

12; 1 of every 7 victims of sexual assault were under

age 6; 40% of offenders who victimized children under

age 6 were juveniles (under age 18).

An average of 5.5 children per 10,000 enrolled in day

care are sexually abused, an average of 8.9 children out

of every 10,000 are abused in the home."

I also wanted to know of any centers that help people

who have been abused locally in Hawaii. Oahu does have a

sex abuse treatment center located in Kapiolani Womens

and childrens hospital. Their site is:

http://www.kapiolani.org/facilities/programs-sex.html

some of the servies offered are: 24-hour crisis hotline:

524-7273. Specialized medical examination available 24

hours a day. (Must be done within 72 hours of the

assault.) Legal evidence collection. (Must be done

within 72 hours of the assault.) Pediatric medical

evaluation for non-emergency situations. They also

provied couseling and community outreach programs.

Message no. 966
Sunday, May 4, 2003 10:48pm
Subject girls and drugs

Today I was searching for information about girls and

drugs. I used the seach engine http://www.google.com

typing in the phase girls and drugs. I found one

article that was very interesting. Here is the

article's site: http://www.msnbc.com/news/869022.asp

While I was searching google, I encountered no problems.

I found that there are many issues dealing with

teenagers and drugs.

On this website it says, "young girls and women are more

easily addicted to drugs and alcohol, they have

different reasons than boys for abusing substances and

may need single-sex treatment programs to back their

additions."

Apparently, there are many reason for women to get

"wasted" or "high". These reason moslty consisted of

escaping problems. On this website, they also link to

the national center of addition and substance abuse.

Here is that website: http://www.casacolumbia.org

 

4. SEXIST JOKES AND MEN

Message no. 113
Friday, January 31, 2003 11:55am
Subject It's just good (not so clean) fun!

When I began looking for information about why men enjoy

sexist jokes, I didn't find exactly what I thought I

would. I found sooo many sexist jokes that it was

impossible to read them all. The ones that I found

funniest, even though I'm a girl, were too offensive to

print here, so you can just imagine. I searched google

using "reasons + men + sexist" and I found this website:

www.theory.org.uk/mensmags.htm

They discussed a general theory of mens magazines and

the sexist humor that is often found within them. They

claimed that it developed from a reaction to feminism to

regain their lost power. It is an attempt to return to

a "pre-feminist masculine ideal." I think this is a

little extreme, but it is one of the reasons out there

as an explanation of why.

Here is a website made an important distinction in what

society considers sexist.

www.animal-law.org/commentaries/cyberpost10.htm

If a man makes a derrogatory comment towards women, it

is considered sexist. BUT, if a woman makes a similar

comment, it may be viewed as crude or wrong, but not

sexist. If we wonder why men enjoy sexist jokes, it may

be because we consider their jokes sexist on the basis

that they are men. It seems we find sexist jokes in male

magazines because it is considered a popular form of

entertainment. If you just look at how many websites

are dedicated to telling the same sexist jokes over, and

over, it's obvious. Personally, I think the majority of

men and a large percentage of women enjoy sexist jokes

because they are usually so outrageous that you have to

laugh. A person doesn't have to be sexist to enjoy

them, or tell them. One of my male friends often teases

his wife by asking her why she isn't barefoot and

pregnant in the kitchen. Why? Because it's fun.

Message no. 117[Branch from no. 113]
Friday, January 31, 2003 2:36pm
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

i agree that everyone enjoys sexist jokes, some more

than others. in my experiences people use these jokes

as an icebreaker. its great because people who are not

as open can laugh because it affects people in a more

personal manner, especially if it is funny. For some

though they perhaps do not appriciate a good joke or it

is too obscene for their liking. people today are so

concerned with proper attitudes in certain places i say

relax and have a laugh once in a while.

Message no. 139[Branch from no. 117]
Monday, February 3, 2003 4:12pm
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

In response to Stefen--I think your attitude about relax

and have fun is destructive. One thing we really need

to consider about humor is why we laugh at others'

expenses. What is funny to us involves hurting others.

From "Tom and Jerry" when we were kids to today when

sitcoms have husbands and wives pick on each other to

gain a laugh from a fake audience. The real message is

that when there a joke about a person or group of people

and those people say it's not funny, then it's time to

give it up and shut your mouth.

Message no. 671[Branch from no. 139]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 8:49pm
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

i think that what really needs to happen is that

everyone needs to relax. i agree with stefan in that

aspect. however, i also agree that we should be more

conscious about WHY we are saying things. if it is for

a hurtful purpose, then we shouldn't say them. but, at

the same time, if you can't laugh at yourself, or what

you are doing...no matter what that is...then you aren't

living life for what it was meant for...and that is to

enjoy it. its not about "shutting" anyone's mouth, as

it is to "opening" people's minds, and making people

realize that if you take yourself too seriously, you're

going to die of a heart attack, or an ulcer or

something. that would be just a complete shame, wouldnt

it?

Message no. 205[Branch from no. 117]
Friday, February 7, 2003 10:06am
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

After reading this response to sexist jokes and why men

love them, I agree with the author. I, too, think that

most people, male or female, enjoy sexists jokes at one

time or another. This is because they are usually so

ridiculous that both sexes can laugh at them. I know

that many mens' magazines print sexist jokes to

entertain their male readers. Maybe that website that

attempts to explain this is correct. Maybe men like

sexist jokes to keep women down in their equality

movement. Perhaps that is the underlying, unconcious

role of these sexist jokes. However, on the surface, it

seems to me that these jokes are purely for

entertainment for everyone, and we may be looking too

deep into this topic for answers.

Message no. 166[Branch from no. 113]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 10:28pm
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

I think that sexist jokes are a lot more common among

men than women because men tend to be more graphically

insensitive to these meaningless jokes. Men seem to

love crude sexist jokes. I hear guys on campus make

sexist comments all the time. Personally it doesn't

really bother me, but there is a thin line to draw.

Sometimes sexist jokes can be offensive depending on the

person who is receiving the jokes and how they take it.

 

Sexist jokes are definitely shocking at times. These

jokes are a form of entertainment and we choose to take

it seriously or not. Men tend to be more direct than

women, so they don't find these jokes shocking. Sexist

jokes are also usually about putting women down. To a

certain extent I agree that sexist jokes are for

repressing increased feminine power. 10 years from now,

men will have the same problem complaining about women

and their "sexist jokes".

Message no. 181[Branch from no. 113]
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 9:03pm
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

I think that it is possibly true that these jokes stem

from a deep down urge to keep "us" on top...look at

jokes about races. As innocent as it seems, portuguese

jokes, asian jokes, caucasian jokes...they all are very

innocent seeming, but perhaps this is just a way to keep

"us" (the race telling the joke) on top.

But...I also have a synical view in that...survival of

the fittest...and...whatever works...works ;)

Message no. 231[Branch from no. 113]
Sunday, February 9, 2003 5:38pm
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

I completely agree with you when you say that most of

the women out there do like some sexist jokes. I think

this is very healthy. We should be able to laugh at

anything. Remember IT IS A JOKE! I think in today's

world people have gone way over board on trying to be

"politically correct". We need to lighten up as a

society. Now days, people get sued over a few comments,

people get sued b/c of hand jestures, and McDonalds get

sued for "making" someone fat. Give me a break. I as a

woman do believe in equality. I think women need to get

paid the same, women need to have the same opportunities

that men are offered, and the responibilities around the

home need to be equal. Because I feel this way does not

mean I can not laugh at a joke. I have jokes about

neanderthal men also. If people would laugh more this

world would be a much healthier place.

Message no. 234[Branch from no. 113]
Sunday, February 9, 2003 9:08pm
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

I too, as a female, would agree that sexist jokes are

funny! I laugh at the jokes about females. And so

what. I laugh at male jokes too. What's the big

problem?

If males use it as a way to put females down that

doesn't mean it really does. It doesn't put me down but

if it did I wouldn't cry about it.

Some people are so uptight about J-O-K-E-S. Maybe they

should just relax.

Message no. 236[Branch from no. 113]
Sunday, February 9, 2003 11:25pm
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

I wish more women had such a healthy attitude towards

jokes regardless of how sexist they may seem because

what it all comes down to is laughter. Granted not all

jokes should be shared in certain circles, but I think

jokes in men's magazines like Maxim are purely for

laughter and never degradation. Society took a turn for

the worst the day someone got slapped with sexual

harassment lawsuit for telling a blonde joke. To me, a

blonde woman who can enjoy a blonde joke has a healthy

perception of herself and realizes that a joke isn't a

personal attack. I commend you for your open mindedness.

Message no. 342[Branch from no. 113]
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:05am
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

I agree that you don't have to be sexist to enjoy a

sexist joke, but as they say, there is a shred of truth

in all jokes. There are many parallels between sexism

and racism, and therefore parallels between sexist and

racist jokes. What sexism and racism are about is

putting yourself inherently above another group, thereby

boosting your self-worth. Men enjoy sexist jokes

because it makes them feel better about themselves and

promotes comaraderie. I'd be curious to see if there's

been a study concerning whether repeated exposure to

sexist jokes increases the amount of sexist thoughts and

actions. Citing my own experiences, I'd definitely say

there is a connection. I have very sexist friends, and

I'm definitely more sexist as a result. Even though I

full-heartedly believe women and men are absolutely

equal, it changes thought patterns and gives us less

aversion to shouting at girls on the street or checking

out a girl's ass for entirely too long. This is my

personal experience.

I'm fully aware that this is a complex interface of

thoughts, actions, and emotions, but to me there is

undeniably a link between sexist (and racist)

jokes/comments and sexist and racist behavior.

Message no. 391[Branch from no. 113]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:49am
Subject Re: It's just good (not so clean) fun!

I hear a lot of sexist jokes all the time. Although at

times they are offensive, many are just an extreme

exaggeration of how things really are. I realize that

there are a lot of guys that say really offensive jokes,

but many of these guys are just too immature to realize

that what they are saying is not just making people

laugh, but is also hurting others.

Message no. 147
Monday, February 3, 2003 8:56pm
Subject that's so sexist

well, i just had a good laugh. i typed in 'sexist jokes

and men' in yahoo and boy, did i get a lot of sexist

jokes. it wasn't until i typed in 'sexism jokes men'

that i got some actual quality material such as site

europrofem.org/06.actio/wrc_rib/ewrc_en/08wrc_en.htm.

the intent of this page was to teach men to behave in a

pro-equality, anti-sexist, anti-violence manner in a

variety of situations. some of their advice was to stop

supporting magazines depecting women as objects or to

'boo' at a comedy show with sexist jokes. there were

several other ideas as well. actually, what i found most

interesting were the amounts of sites against women's

sexism against men that came up. although it's not as

stereotypical (a big danger, causing us to overlook

actual problems), it does seem to be fairly rampant.

and isn't it just as stereotypical that there is a

discussion forum labeled 'sexist jokes and men' and not

'sexist jokes and women'? or just 'sexist jokes'? this

will hardly be taken care of any time soon. i guess my

question is why? it's generally believed that people

make fun of others to make themselves feel bigger or

better, in a sick way. males, as the socially dominant

species for so long as objectified women FOREVER. now

are women objectifying men as means of retaliation,

equal rights or to make themselves feel better? i don't

know. or, do we use humor to deflect things we don't

understand or don't want to deal with? yes, i think so.

so does that apply in this situation? what do you all

think?

Message no. 284[Branch from no. 147]
Friday, February 14, 2003 10:03am
Subject Re: that's so sexist

I think that you're right. Those sexist jokes are funny.

I had cramps from laughing so hard, then there were the

jokes that were plain out degrading toward women and

just made me sick. I think we use sexist humor when we

need to feel that power over the other sex. We have to

put them down when they hurt us. I think it's all about

having the power and feeling better about ourselves.

This website: http://www.goodapples.ca/whatcanido.html

is about sexual harassment and sexist jokes. It explains

that this form of sexual harassment isn't about sex but

about having power.

Message no. 394[Branch from no. 284]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:39pm
Subject Re: that's so sexist

i think that people do use humor to make themselves feel

better. I think humor is great no matter what kind of

joke. the problem i have is with the person or context

in which they use the joke in. a profrofessional

comedian can make just about anyone laugh at any joke

becuase the people know that it is all in fun and no one

is being the target. Not everyone are comedians though

and is where the problem lyes. People use these jokes

to put them "above" others. it may work for a little

while but in the end they usually get whats coming to

them

Message no. 632[Branch from no. 394]
Saturday, March 29, 2003 4:00pm
Subject Re: that's so sexist

I agree that people use these jokes to make them feel

better or more powerful over other people, but I also

think there is another side to it. I think that we are

able to laugh at these jokes because there is a grain of

truth to the stereotypes that we sometimes recongize in

ourselves and may be funny when it is blown out of

proportion. It is also disturbing that these can be so

funny when they put women down. I like the point

brought up that the title of the forum is sexist jokes

and men. I think this might be due to the views of the

professor.

Message no. 169
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 10:43pm
Subject Men & Sexist jokes

In this search, I specifically looked for the reasons

why men enjoy sexist jokes. I used the search term

reasons+men and sexist jokes. I didn't encounter any

problems with this search. I used www.google.com for

this search. This was the site I used:

http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/5819/menstop3.html

In this short article, I found that Men who tells sexist

jokes are trying to build themselves up at the women's

expense. Many sexist jokes are targeted to women or in

some situations gay men. Sexist jokes cause pain and

even violence among women and gay men. In this

situation, I don't agree with supporting sexist jokes.

If the sole purpose of sexist jokes was to entertain,

then it would be OK. Unfortunately sexist jokes may give

rapists or sadist men out there inspiration and

motivation to rape women or abuse them. In this

case....quoted from the article: "We don't need a laugh

at that cost."

Message no. 424[Branch from no. 169]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:58pm
Subject Re: Men & Sexist jokes

I agree that it is ok to tell jokes if the sole purpose

for it is to make people laugh. But like you said,if it

is directed toward someone or a group of people with the

intent to hurt or discriminate, then it becomes a

problem. When a man tells a sexist joke and it is

intended for entertainment, and a woman or anyone else

for that matter takes offense to it, then I think it is

time for him to think twice before telling it again. I

believe that there are people in the world who are more

sensitive on certain subjects, than are others and we

need to take their feelings into consideration. However,

I also believe that those ultra-sensitive people need to

lighten up a bit and laugh more because life is just too

short to get pissed at people who are ignorant.

Message no. 249
Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:29am
Subject Is it only men?

I enjoyed this search because i gave in to temptation

and read many of the sexist jokes that were dangling in

front of me on my computer screen. At first I used

Google with the search phrase "sexist jokes and men".

This search resulted in an enormous amount of web sites

dedicated to sexist jokes. I browsed through about five

or so of the pages, but then remembered my task and

changed my search to "sexism and jokes and men". This

was a better search phrase because it yielded many pages

that would help me find out some reasons for sexist

jokes. However, after seeing the frequent web sites

dedicated to women's sexist jokes about men, I wanted to

find a site that would address this issue. I found one:

http://www.backlash.com/book/sexist.html This web

site was written by a man and railed the females who

protest against male jokes about women that they feel

are sexist. He cites the many web pages that are

created by women for jokes about men that are

derogatory. He noted that the online book "The Dumb

Male Jokebook" was selling at an all time high. The

creator also discussed a chain letter he received about

women joking about men in a sxist manner, and a CBS

report about reverse sexism.

Message no. 262[Branch from no. 249]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:05pm
Subject Re: Is it only men?

In response to Sean........

Reverse sexism was bound to happen. Women, have been

the butt of jokes for so long, it's about time a whole

book of men jokes came out. Women are capable of

dogging men just the same as when men dog women.

All in all , I think it's done just for the laughs, the

reason why it's so funny to read them is because there's

a bit of truth behind it regradless if it's jokes

towards men or women.

Message no. 323[Branch from no. 262]
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:25pm
Subject Re: Is it only men?

I agree that if a woman does not want a man telling

sexist jokes about her she should not tell them either.

Unfortunately we all usually result to children's

mentality and think "anything he can do I can do better"

or play a form of insulting tag. And then we play the

blame game, "well he/she started it!" For some the

jokes are harmless but to others, mostly women they are

a reflection of stereotypes and insults. But aren't

most jokes a put down of someone or something. You are

laughing at someone else or in some cases yourself.

That is just how jokes are. But granted some are

tasteless and unnecessary but for the most part we all

tell or laugh at jokes aimed at others but when the

laughing arrow is pointed at us we are a lot more likely

to want it pointed somewhere else.

Message no. 290[Branch from no. 249]
Friday, February 14, 2003 2:40pm

Subject Re: Is it only men?

I have to admit that I have received some of those jokes

about me but the difference with those emails was that

both men AND women were the butt of the joke. I did

laugh when I read them and I didn't feel that they took

on a derogatory connotation. I know there are other

jokes that are extreme and I would have to oppose those

types because everyone knows that men and women are

different. Let's just leave it at that.

Message no. 361[Branch from no. 249]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 4:10pm
Subject Re: Is it only men?

Hey Sean wassup man I didn't know you were taking this

class. I haven't checked out any websites concerning

this topic but think that any controversy pertaining to

sexist jokes should be squashed. When people begin to

attack humor you know this world is getting way to

sensitive. It's good that women are coming back with

their own brand of sexist jokes and all of this (both

side of the joke issue) should be taken with a

tongue-in-cheek mentality. People have to able to laugh

and when thinking back to the jokes I've heard in the

past,it is the sexist part of the joke which makes the

joke funny! Men tease women and vice versa, this has

been going on since the hannabadda days so all of these

people with certain ill reactions toward these type of

jokes I got something that will cure your dilemma, it's

a chill pill. Later.

Message no. 742[Branch from no. 361]
Monday, April 7, 2003 12:35pm
Subject Re: Is it only men?

No it is not only men who make sexist jokes. Women to

are just as bad as men. At work, I here women talking

about men and making jokes about them. There is a

stereotype that men are scum, that they only make fun of

the opposite sex, NOOOOOO Way.

Women talk about men all the time like the size of there

you know what, as well as how syupid we are. In times of

sexist jokes, women take these things to court, men do

not. This is why people think only men do it.

Message no. 283
Friday, February 14, 2003 9:55am
Subject Seryt1) on xist jokes about women

Using Yahoo as my search engine and the phrase "sexist

jokes and men", came up was all sexist jokes about

women. I had trouble finding a resource page that didn't

have sexist jokes. Finally I used "sexist jokes against

women" and clicked on the forth option:

http://www.goodapples.ca/whatcanido.html

Although I believe some sexist jokes about women can be

funny, I'm sure not all women would agree and would take

offense. This article called "Challenging men to end

violence against women and children" by the Good Apples

Project had a different perspective on sexist jokes

about women. The article states "Learn to recognize the

signs of sexual harassment in your workplace" and that

sexual harassment can take on less obvious forms (e.g.,

like sexist jokes or sexist language) and that this type

of sexual harassment isn't about sex but about power.

I'm assuming that they are implying that sexist jokes

told by men correlates to violence against women and

that these sexist jokes are all about having feelings of

power over women. I would have to agree that some (not

all) men do sometimes use sexist jokes about women

because they feel inferior to women and that by telling

these types of jokes, they feel better about being a man

and somehow they are the more stronger or better sex.

Message no. 331[Branch from no. 283]
Monday, February 17, 2003 4:03pm
Subject Re: Sexist jokes about women

Regarding Sherry's "Sexist Jokes Against Women",

We all agree that jokes are sexist, but it's all for fun

and humor. That's what makes a joke so funny. There is

always someone that's going to be unhappy or feel

inferior, but that's life. Like Donna was saying, jokes

are jokes--just let them go and ignore it.

Message no. 304
Sunday, February 16, 2003 9:48am
Subject Reply to Lorely's "It's just good (not so clean) fun!"

I always would have thought that jokes directed

towards the female have been around since the caveman

days when our grunts were first given meaning. It does

make sense though that we, as males, can use something

as trivial as a joke to give ourselves a sense of

superiority.

You can't really put all the blame of this

chauvanism on males. It's a vicious cycle of mass media

putting this type of message into our heads and males

enjoying it enough for the media to keep on doing it.

Message no. 327
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:46pm
Subject response

I think that jokes are jokes and while some go out of

the ball park the most of it are fine. I would rather

not have them but, they are there.

Message no. 348
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:57pm
Subject Jokes and Sexism

I used google searching the terms "psychology sexist

jokes". I originally was searching for why men like

sexist jokes, but most of the evidence I found was the

mindset of ment who like sexist jokes, and the way women

react to them. I had no problems in my search.

The first site I found was

http://www.shpm.com/articles/wf/harass.html It

postulated that even mild forms of sexism in the

workplace (e.g. comments and jokes) have negative

effects on female employees, and even "can cause

significant psychological distress".

The second site was

http://www.cord.edu/faculty/tkachuk/scta201/abstractsamples.htm

which cited a troubling university study. It said that

women were far less likely to enjoy sexist jokes, and

were less likely to tell them than men. By far the most

disturbing finding was the following: "The enjoyment of

sexist humor was positively correlated with rape myth

acceptance, adversarial sexual beliefs, acceptance of

interpersonal violence, and the self-reported likelihood

of forcing sex in men." It also said that the

likelihood of male enjoyment of a sexist joke was

diminished by a disgusted female in the room.

The third site was

http://www.ilstu.edu/~mhemmas/sexual_and_sexist_humor_SHRM-PROP.htm

which gave a differing view. It stated that joking in

the workplace led to less stress and monotony. However,

the article said sexist jokes could work as a

double-edged sword, lightening the mood in some

situations while offending people in others.

Message no. 649[Branch from no. 348]
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:32pm
Subject Re: Jokes and Sexism

You know, i really wonder sometimes...if we put too much

emphasis on this whole sexist thing. is it possible

that we are blowing it up to be worse than it really is?

when i read these articles i think, man, that IS

horrible...but i think it because someone brings it to

my attention. perhaps if we all just stopped with this

"trying to make it all equal" or "politically correct"

stuff...and just had a good laugh, and continued working

that everything would be so much smoother?

ya think?...just an idea

Message no. 352
Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:36am
Subject Men and Sexism

Because I feel that it's unfair to say that men get most

of the heat of sexism jokes, I wanted to research on

sexism against men. I search under Google using the

phrase "sexism jokes and men" and found two good

websites. No problems that stood out.

The first one was www.jokesbyemail.co.uk/c-mu.shtml and

it just has funny sexist jokes. It has different joke

categories and one especially for men and women. If you

like these types of jokes, this is a pretty good site,

however, some are nasty (just to worn you).

The other site was really good

(surreally.net/fullbleed/new archives/000270.php). It

talks about how men claim that they experience

discrimination because they're a MAN and THAT'S SEXISM.

It then goes on to say that men don't experience sexism,

but recieve negative affects by sexism, and gives

examples of them. One example, a man will suffer when

he chooses a women that dosen't fit the "ideal women"

image that's define by sexist society. So men are forced

to stay in a range of what's "sexy" and "attractive". I

totally agree from that only because I have male

friends and the first thing they look for in a girl is

if she's skinny, then looks.

Message no. 392
Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:00pm
Subject Men and Women equals as far as sexism

I decided to research men and sexist jokes. I had no

problems today, I used Yahoo and was successful. I used

the search terms: men, sexist, jokes; sexist jokes. I

was hoping to find some data supporting the idea that

sexist jokes are offensive and are childish. What I

found was interesting. I found that as far as sexist

jokes, there are just as many sexist men jokes as there

ae sexist woman jokes. Here are some of the web sites I

visited:

http://www.day-tripper.net/shopwine-joke.html

http://www.maxpages.com/foxyfun/sexist_jokes

http://www.excelex.net/~jayssite/Jokes/Dating_and_Sexist_Jokes/dating_and_sexist_jokes.html

http://www.geocities.com/donskin/sexistmen.htm

My favorite of the sites, is the last one. I really find

the men jokes not only funny but true. As far as the

jokes that men find funny...well let's just say they're

tasteless and stupid, but what else can you really

expect. Although I don't agree with sexism, the jokes

are equally sexist and are just for a good laugh. The

problem is, that there is a time and a place for jokes

like these. Places like work and school they can be

concidered harassment, and although the jokes are just

for fun you never know who may take offence to it.

Message no. 434
Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:42pm
Subject Ignorance is gettin' pricy

I started with yahoo and ended with google in my search

for what others have said about how men benefit from

telling sexist jokes about women. I used the keywords:

benefit and "sexist jokes" in both searches. I found an

article at

http://members.aol.com/jamesautry/lp-exec.htm. Written

by a man (James A. Autry), this article discusses

telling sexist jokes specifically in the workplace. He

tells readers about, although men and women usually

always agree on when a sexist joke is being made, that

women should be "flattered" or be able to recognize and

laugh at the derogatory joke because it is, after all,

"just a joke." The most intelligent observation made by

Autry is how men have difficulty, when they see a woman

in a skirt or something (not that it matters what she's

wearing), separating a woman's desire to be attractive

and have a sexual identity with her desire to maintain

sexual privacy. This means no gestures, looks, jokes,

comments--NOTHING. As a woman, I know that it is so

important to be able to go through your day without

men--young and old alike--degrading me in some fashion.

I don't think I've had a day without this since I was 11

or 12 years old. That's a long time people. I think we

need to look at every single joke made and ask ourselves

who is at the expense of the punchline. Autry also

points out that for too many men, a woman's sexuality

can exist only in the context of being a commodity for

men. This article addresses some important issues

about men's power issues and predatorial cores and I

suggest having a look.

Message no. 710[Branch from no. 434]
Saturday, April 5, 2003 7:44pm
Subject Re: Ignorance is gettin' pricy

i couldn't find the page...clicked the link, but nothing

came up.

something i would like to comment on is what it sounded

like you were saying. it seems to me that this site,

and your post, are talking more about the issue of

sexual harrasment. i think that there is a difference

between sexual harrasment, and a sexist joke. sexual

harassment is a comment or "joke" that is directed or

fashioned about a specific person, normally one in the

area. (hooting and hollaring at a female, or male,

joking about someones attractiveness...etc) i agree,

these are not joking matters, especially in a

work/professional environment. they are degrading, and

are not intended to do anything other than that!

however, i still believe that the sexist joke (ie: men

are dumb, watch sports and drink beer....or....women are

moody, and emotional) can have a valuable insight to the

other sex. while they are jokes, and many of them

pretty cruel, they are also based on an exageration of

the truth. no, not all men are dumb, beer drinking,

couch slugs...and not all women are moody and

emotional...however, its funny to hear about the people

who are. and if you aren't one of these people, why

sweat it. even if you are...dont take yourself so

seriously. laugh, relax, and have fun...but

remember...if you're going to joke about others, be

prepared to be the butt of someone else's joke too!!

Message no. 443
Friday, February 28, 2003 7:03am
Subject not a laughing matter?

i found this site through google.com. I had a

relatively easy time finding the site once i got through

the garbage jokes. I used the words Sexism and jokes to

search.

http://www.west.asu.edu/paloverde/Paloverde2001/jokes.

The article i found was part of a thesis paper written

by a woman about how sexist jokes may seem funny to some

but the affects of them echo throughout that persons

life. Those jokes begin to affect working conditions,

communications and hurt the persons overall selfworth.

Jokes are for the most part are good things but people

can use and abuse them as with anything else. Jokes are

a powerful part of socialization and can be used to get

groups to believe they are higher or better than others

which can affect peoples perceptions of any one

individual.

Message no. 514[Branch from no. 443]
Sunday, March 9, 2003 2:09pm
Subject Re: not a laughing matter?

Reading your posting I just had to laugh, come on "jokes

can be used to get groups to believe they are higher or

better than others"? Please, that is ridiculous. Jokes

are just that a joke, something that is supposed to be

funny and taken lightly. Maybe those people who seem to

take offence to them should lighten up and discover that

the joke is not a way to make someone feel superior, but

a way to make someone smile. Although I agree that there

is a time and place for every thing, choose wisely!

Message no. 769[Branch from no. 514]
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 9:11pm
Subject Re: not a laughing matter?

yes, jokes are funny becuase that is what they are meant

to do, but the whole reason that they are offensive is

because people don't see how humiliating they can be.

I'm sure that if you had a really good racist joke about

Native Americans, a really dirty one, you wouldn't tell

people that joke if there were any Native Americans

around. The same thing goes for sexist jokes. If you

know a joke but it is so bad that you wouldn't tell

someone, who the joke is aimed at making fun of, that

specific joke, then you know it isn't always just for

fun. Tell all of your friends because they will think

the joke is funny, but not everyone who hears jokes,

especially those who it is about will think that it is

funny at all.

Message no. 468
Sunday, March 2, 2003 8:12pm
Subject The truth behind the laugh

For this research topic I used the search engine google.

I used google because I am always able to find good and

useful information relevant to my topic. The search

phrase that I used was "sexist jokes." I did not have

any problems with this search because I found a good

amount of links on my first attempt. The web address

for the site I used is:

http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/5819/menstop3.html

In this article I found that men who tell sexist jokes

are usually trying to build themselves up at the expense

of women. I was shoked to learn that sexists jokes may

give rapists men more inspiration and motivation to rape

and abuse women. I think that it is pathetic how some

men need to make sexist jokes just to feel better about

themselves. That just goes to show how shallow some men

can be.

Message no. 560[Branch from no. 468]
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 8:25am
Subject Re: The truth behind the laugh

Regarding Gails search:

I don't agree with the article about how men who tell

sexist jokes are trying to build themselves up at womens

expense. Men tell jokes because they are funny AND

women tell jokes for the same reason. Majority of my

male friends who tell sexist jokes are good guys. They

just tell them because they read or hear it from

somewhere and thought it was funny. Infact, my female

friend knows more male sexist jokes than my male friends

knowing female sexist jokes.

Message no. 660[Branch from no. 468]
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 10:14pm
Subject Re: The truth behind the laugh

The kind of men that need to degrade women just to get a

laugh or boost their own self esteem are sick. I think

that some men take it too far. It is shocking to hear

that sexist jokes are reasons why women are abused and

raped out there.

Message no. 692[Branch from no. 468]
Friday, April 4, 2003 7:12am
Subject Re: The truth behind the laugh

lol...did none of your searching turn of sexist jokes

about men, and thus lead to how "shallow" women can be?

This is a great topic to explore both sides of, I'm

willing to bet that sexist jokes are almost as

prevelant, if not equally prevelant, among men as women,

we just tend to be a heck of alot more vocal about them.

Message no. 502
Friday, March 7, 2003 1:22pm
Subject Email Joke

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to share a joke I received on an email.

Enjoy (OR NOT)....

> > A language instructor was explaining to her class that

> > in French, nouns, unlike their English counterparts,

> > are grammatically designated as masculine or feminine.

> >

> > "House," in French, is feminine-"la maison."

> > "Pencil," in French, is masculine-"le crayon."

> >

> > One puzzled student asked, "What gender is computer?"

> > The teacher did not know, and the word wasn't in her French

> > dictionary. So for fun she split the class into two groups,

> > appropriately enough by gender, and asked them to decide whether

> > "computer" should be a masculine or feminine noun. Both groups were

> > required to give four reasons for their recommendation.

> >

> > The men's group decided that computers should definitely be of the

> > feminine gender ("la computer"), because:

> >

> > 1. No one but their creator understands their internal logic. 2. The

> > native language they use to communicate with other computers

> > is incomprehensible to everyone else

> > 3. Even the smallest mistakes are stored in long-term memory for

> > possible later retrieval

> > 4. As soon as you make a commitment to one, you find yourself spending

> > half your pay check on accessories for it.

> >

> > The women's group, however, concluded that computers should be

> > masculine ("le computer"), because:

> >

> > 1. In order to get their attention, you have to turn them on; 2. They

> > have a lot of data but they are still clueless 3. They are supposed to

>

> > help you solve problems, but half the time

> > they ARE the problem

> > 4. As soon as you commit to one, you realize that if you'd waited

> > a little longer, you could have gotten a better model.

> >

> > The Women Won

Message no. 827[Branch from no. 502]
Monday, April 14, 2003 8:31pm
Subject Re: Email Joke

I had read this before and it made me laugh,reading it

the second time around doesn't make it less funny. I

believe that these sexit jokes do have some truth and

that's why they're funny.

Message no. 504
Friday, March 7, 2003 2:34pm
Subject Why are sexist jokes funny?

I used MSN and search words: Why are sexist jokes funny.

The only problem I had was finding the majority of

jokes sites but not enough on why we tell and find

sexist jokes funny. I finally came across a BBC artilce.

The address is

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/10/98/office_life/206514.stm

While it touched on the many types of jokes sent the

main focus was on how companies are becoming more strict

with e-mail which will lead to lesser sexist jokes being

rotated. The article also discussed the dangers for

companies and examples of companies being sued. "Oil

giant Chevron had to pay out $2.2m - at £1.3m, three

times the amount Norwich Union paid for libel - after a

female employee complained of sexual harassment when she

found sexist jokes under the heading "why beer is better

than women". There were also plenty of sites that

suppored sexist jokes not only for men but for women

also. Claiming it is harmless fun. Some sexist joke

sites are: http://www.jokeemail.com/old/sexist.htm

http://www.lifeisajoke.com/menvwomen10_html.htm

Message no. 743[Branch from no. 504]
Monday, April 7, 2003 12:38pm
Subject Re: Why are sexist jokes funny?

When I searched this topic I found alot of sites with

sexist jokes. There was know sites that explained why

they were funny. The only information found was hundreds

of sites dealing with male and female jokes.

I think they are funny because society makes them funny.

Men and women like talking about the other sex

Message no. 964[Branch from no. 504]
Sunday, May 4, 2003 10:14pm
Subject Re: Why are sexist jokes funny?

I guess sex is a "touchy" subject in American.

Therefore, I don't want to speak my mind about sex

because someone may find it be offensive and sue me

since people can and are sueing each other for

anything!!! hehe.

Message no. 507
Friday, March 7, 2003 3:49pm
Subject Sexist Humor

I started my search in the American Psychological

Associations Monitor web based publishing databank.

After that I went to Google and typed in jokes+sexual

harrassment. The results were enormous and had to be

sifted through to get rid of sites that were just

composed of jokes. In the APA Monitor,

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jul98/ harass.html, research

has found that men telling sexist jokes affects them

directly by the influence it has on the whole work

environment.

For a different point of view I found a site that

has a posting board for stories and emails.

http://www.prairielaw.com/messageboards/chnl21/mbrd18/msg136411.asp,

contained a story about a woman who encountered

workplace harrassment. It was interesting because even

though she was in the process of pursuing actions, she

sounded like she has already lost.

Message no. 607
Sunday, March 23, 2003 9:22pm
Subject funny or insulting?

My topic is on why men think sexist jokes are amusing.

I began my first search by using http://www.skworm.com I

used the phrase:why do men like sexist jokes? I found

an article that supports that men tell sexist jokes just

as a form of entertainment. There was no problem in

finding this article.

http://www.bgnews.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/02/14/3e4d0186dbc19

The title of this is "Don't take sexist jokes so

seriously." The man who wrote this is a humor columnist

and he thinks that women shouldn't be offended by sexist

jokes because it is only a joke. He address that men

don't get worked up when a male sterotype is used

because they don't take it personally. On the other

hand he goes on to state that women are a different

matter. Women do get offended and he thinks it's petty

and meaningless to take jokes about women seriously.

My second search was a contrast to the first. I used

the same search engine above, but this time using the

phrase:men against sexist jokes. No problems occured in

this search as well. I found this site

http://www.undp.org/rblac/gender/mens.htm which is about

The White Ribbon Campaign (Men working to end men's

violence against women). Subsection #5 deals with

sexist jokes and men. It encourages men to challenge

other men using sexist language and jokes which are

demaning to women. The site says that sexist jokes and

language could be one of the many catalysts that leads

to violence against women.

Both these articles give their view on this matter.

Although some women won't get offended by these jokes

there are always going to be one's that do. This should

make men become more sensitive with what they say around

women.

Message no. 736[Branch from no. 607]
Monday, April 7, 2003 8:43am
Subject Re: funny or insulting?

Regrading Marie's search:

I would have to agree with the first article. Most

jokes that do happen to be sexist are just for laughs.

Some women do need to relax because the jokes itself is

not directed to any particular women. But of course,

there are some occasions where males do take it a little

far and has nothing to do with what females do.

Message no. 656
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 1:16pm
Subject Morals and Values anyone?

When we speak about Sexist jokes, depending who you

are, you may react differently. Me? I couldn't care

less because it doesn't affect my view of women. Why?

Morals and Values. You might say I was taught well and

had a good upbringing. But it goes beyond that, I make

the conscious choice to stick to my own morals and keep

all of my values in line. For most of those jokes

that piss feminists off all of the time, I laugh. Why

laugh if you know it's wrong, you might ask? I laugh

BECAUSE I know it is wrong! And I understand.

Understanding is the key. Understanding any joke makes

the joke funny. If you have to explain it, then it's

not a joke and not as funny. Understanding what is

right and what is wrong is another thing that should be

required, but this is the issue at hand.

There are things that play against it. You know,

anything bad in our lives. These little things that

keep us in line, keep us going. These things are Morals

and Values and countless other constructs. Fantasy/

simulations, videogame violence, cartoon material, road

rage, naughty jokes-- you name it. The truth lies in

the conscious decision to follow what you were

taught,what you know, and laugh at what you are not.

For those who don't know of what I speak, I don't expect

you to understand.

Morals and values anyone? Oh you don't need to

know how it all pans out statistically. Using logic you

should know that if everyone (or at least the majority

of the population) lacked morals and values then we

would all be dead. Or suffering at the least. The few

rotten apples out there do ruin the bunch, sometimes.

Sometimes some people don't understand.

Message no. 672
Thursday, April 3, 2003 8:53pm
Subject laugh at this...

i mean it...laugh! i'm very interested in why it is

that people cant take a simple joke about themselves, or

a group they belong to, and just laugh. if there's one

thing that we have in hawaii, it is diversity. and with

that diversity comes "generalizations" and jokes about

those "generalizations." fillipinos can't match

clothes, portugese talk too much, and chinese are tight

with their money. we all laugh at these jokes, but when

it comes to the "sexes," everyone seems to get very

touchy. why?...its FUNNY!!!

look at this site:

http://jokeemailer.hypermart.net/sexist/sexist6.htm

it is just one of the many sexist jokes it has, against

both men and women. this particular one is against

men...its a training schedule for men, and how to

"domesticate" them. its true, some, if not most, men

don't understand how to do these things. thats why its

funny...but if we cant laugh at ourselves, then our

civilization is on its fast slope towards it end.

laugh...its healthy for you!

Message no. 685
Friday, April 4, 2003 12:19am
Subject understanding each other

this article was both funny and interesting. i found

while searching on google. i used the words meaning of

sexist jokes. http://www.the-hud.co.uk/sexist.htm

I got a site from a womens handbook that helps everyone

understand each other in a creative and humorous way.

This is quite an interesting site. The contents are

mostly jokes but it deciphers them in to how each sex

things about the words they are using. The language we

use is to most of us trying to hide the truth of what we

as men really want to say. this site puts in to comedic

terms which i think is a great way to decipher why men

make these jokes towards women. It also gives woman a

view that may make them understand the base of mens

jokes and help them as well as the men to understand

what each other means when they say silly jokes.

Message no. 704[Branch from no. 685]
Friday, April 4, 2003 8:52pm
Subject Re: understanding each other

Hi Stefan,

I agree with you that the article was "funny and

interesting." It was pretty long, but it was worth it to

go through most of it. I guess it made me laugh because

I could relate to some of the things listed.

I think being able to relate/identify with things makes

these situations/conversations involving males and

females funny. That's why many sexist jokes are funny -

because we can relate to them or think of someone who

does.

Message no. 722
Sunday, April 6, 2003 3:08am
Subject sexism and sexist jokes

I was searching for information on the effects and

prevalance of sexist jokes towards women in our society.

I used Google(suprise!) to search for sexism+joke+men

and was rewarded with multiple results with exactly what

I was looking for(boy im gettin good at this).

http://weblog.burningbird.net/fires/000810.htm The first

site was an article from a feminists point of view on

sexisst jokes and what steps should be taken by women to

protest these types of jokes.

http://www.kstatecollegian.com/issues/v103/fa/n052/news/cam.derry.cowdrey.html

The second discusses the power trip that some men tend

to get around women; rape and sexist jokes are

supposedly part of this.

Personally I think sexist jokes are hilarious,even those

made about men. Its a good way to discover all the

stereo types of both genders, plus a good way for guys

and girls to share a laugh among themselves. The first

article tells that "Sexist jokes are the number one way

to drive women out of any group, and they are more

common than many people realize." This article is

written by a feminist, so it may be a tad more hardcore

than most women."Women keep silent when we see sexist

jokes because if we protest, we will immediately be

attacked for being over-sensitive, uptight, or a

"feminazi." This is not totally true, I for one realize

that some sexist jokes may be quite offensive to certain

women and if a woman asks me not to tell them I am more

than happy to comply The second article says that

"...men could be brought in from all over the world, and

they would have nothing in common, except that they feel

superior to women...This male cultural phenomenon is

taught while men are young..." Some men do feel superior

to women, but I do not believe they think they are

better than women, merely that men are on average

physically stronger than women.

Message no. 724
Sunday, April 6, 2003 2:03pm
Subject sexist jokes and men

I looked up sexist joes on www.yahoo.com. Most of the

websites that came up were jokes for men about women.

There were very few jokes for women about men. This in

itself shows the bias that men find these jokes more

humourous, they seem to be obsessed with them. I found

one website that has an article about not taking sexist

jokes so seriously. It is written by a man, telling

women to not get angry about these jokes, but to throw

out jokes about men in retaliation. You can view this

article at

http://www.bgnews.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/02/14/3e4d0186dbc19.

Message no. 965
Sunday, May 4, 2003 10:38pm
Subject jokes

I found this article searching the search engine

http://www.findarticles.com typing in the phase: sexist

jokes and Google typing in the same phase.

Findarticles.com is a really good website because it

searchs "journals of research" plus they tend to be more

scholarly then the ones you find over google.

I did this search because I wanted to find information

about this topic since it sounded interesting. However,

while I was searching for information on google, all I

could find were numerous pages of sex jokes sites. Here

are a few that I found: http://www.funnyjokes.com and

http://www.lotsofjokes.com

While I searched findarticles.com. I found this article

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m2294/n5-6_v38/20749201/p1/article.jhtml?Term=sexist+jokes

THis article discusses how age and gender influences

attitudes towards sexist/nonsexist language in sports

and nonsports. This article is 12 pages long and was

written on March 1, 1998.

I found the findarticle.com article very interesting.

It deals with a lot of issues that are present in our

society.

Overall, these search engines caused no problems and

helped me find at least one article that I could use in

my bibliography report.

Message no. 1002
Tuesday, May 6, 2003 11:43pm
Subject sexist jokes used to exclude women

My topic is why men find sexist jokes about women

amusing? I used the search engine:

http://www.google.com with the phrase: why sexist jokes

amusing to men? The search went well.

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/equity/reports/archives/MascEng.html

I found a study done by in the Ausralasian Journal of

Engineering Education. The article is shown on the

University of Adlaide in Australia's website. This

article shows the degree to which masculinity is

involved with male engineering students in Australia.

Under #2 The Rituals of Inclusion and Exclusion there is

a subsection about sexist and sexual jokes. They found

that some of the students interviewed said if women want

to fit in engineering they have to put up with the

joking and join in as well. Using sexist jokes male

students in engineering potentially hinder and exclude

women from full and equal participation.

Message no. 1036
Thursday, May 8, 2003 10:05am
Subject "good fun" or "sexual harassment"

I used Google to search for this topic using keywords

"sexist jokes"+"offensive". I have no problem finding

the research paper below on sexual humor:

below:http://www.ilstu.edu/~mhemmas/sexual_and_sexist_humor_SHRM-PROP.htm

In this article, Hemmasi and Graf cited Mitchell's

findings which indicated that gender-related differences

in appreciation of humor can be conditioned by the

gender of the joke-teller. Women, for instance, tend to

find rape jokes funny when told by other women. But

when these jokes are told by men, they tend to associate

with the fear of being a rape victim and thus do not

think of the jokes as humorous but offensive.

Another finding which is contrary to many previous

studies is that a survey of college students (Johnson,

1991) reported that men and women did not generally

differ in telling sexual and aggressive jokes.

Humor, as stated by the paper, is a situation-dependent

phenomenon, and is affected by the group setting. Male

college students have been found to augment or totally

suppress their laughter depending on the response of

females present in the group.

All in all, I do not find sexist jokes that offensive,

but if I did and the joke-teller respond by stopping at

once, I think it's okay.

 

5. COCA-COLA WITH ASPRIN

Message no. 52
Friday, January 24, 2003 2:23pm
Subject A Little bit of truth

I began this search in attempts to find some proof that

disolving aspirin in Coca-Cola will get a person high,

or at least have some effect. I began my search on

Google with the phrase "coca-cola + aspirin + high." I

found a lot of information and almost all of it

concluded that this statement was a false urban legend.

It was very difficult to find any website, no matter how

unscholarly, that tried to claim it was true. I

expected to find many postings on the web claiming its

validity, just for fun, and to preserve the legend.

Another fact that I was surprised I did not find any

information about was the "high-like" effect that

Coca-Cola can give on its own. Some people have an

extremely low caffeine tolerance due to their low intake

of it. When one of these people have a coke (don't even

think about Mountain Dew) their bodily response to the

amount of caffeine can make them act irritable, hyper,

and disorientated, just like some people can be when

they are high. I have had first-hand experience with

this happening to a member of my family.

One website did tell me a small amount of history behind

this urban legend's claim:

www.jiskha.com/health/substance_abuse/aspirin.html

Apparently, ten years ago there were television ads that

claimed the combination of coca-cola and aspirin gave a

"buzz." This led to many fatal over-doses and aspirin

was listed as the drug of choice in suicide attempts in

1985.

I was not satisfied with the lack of proof that I found

so I began to look at health websites. One of which is:

http://jhhs.client.web-health.com/web-health/topics/Medications/aspirin

This is a website that examined the effects of caffiene

with aspirin. Caffeine is a major ingredient in

Coca-cola and it does have an effect on aspirin which is

an analgesic. Caffeine enhances the analgesic

properties of salicylates and possibly speeds their

effects. Therefore, though this combination may not

make a person "high" it can cause the normal effects of

aspirin to occur faster and slightly stronger.

There have been very few studies on the effects of

taking medications with caffeinated drinks, such as

coca-cola, so there was little evidence to prove how

true this urban legend may be. Even so, there seems to

be a small bit of truth to the claim that Coca-Cola and

aspirin will get you high. It won't actually get you

high, but it will affect you in some way beyond what you

might usually expect.

Message no. 148[Branch from no. 52]
Monday, February 3, 2003 9:40pm
Subject Re: A Little bit of truth

I read Renae Mendez's froum discussion on the effects of

Coca-cola mixed with aspirin. I thought that this was a

very informative research effort through the tool of the

internet. I was very doubtful about this 'urban legend'

as she calls it, and my skepticism was not diffused.

From all of her research, it is clear that there is no

proof of a high associated with Coca-cola and aspirin.

I realize that this does not conclusively equate to the

fact that there is no effect, but it substantially backs

my previous hypothesis.

Message no. 328[Branch from no. 52]
Monday, February 17, 2003 1:59pm
Subject Re: A Little bit of truth

Wow this research really made me feel that I am so

uninformed about these things. I have heard of other

urban legends such as eating a Poppy seed bagel will

make you test positive for drugs. I have also heard

that eating those pop crack candies with soda might lead

to death. Other than that, I have never heard of

combining aspirin with coke.

I think it's ridiculous to think that coke with aspirin

might cause death. I do agree that since caffeine is

the main component of coke, the caffeine and aspirin

combination can cause the normal effects of aspirin to

be slightly stronger. Therefore, there might be some

slight truth to this urban legend that coke with aspirin

will make you high, but not realistically for

everyone....maybe just the feeling or belief of being

high, but not actually being "high".

Message no. 333[Branch from no. 328]
Monday, February 17, 2003 9:15pm
Subject Re: A Little bit of truth

I took organic chemistry a few semesters back and my

professor said that poppy seeds will make you test

postive in taking a drug test because morphine and

heroin are derivatives of what they are testing

for...however, I still hear that it is an urban

legend...who knows...maybe you could do some research on

it.

Message no. 376[Branch from no. 52]
Friday, February 21, 2003 1:11pm
Subject Re: A Little bit of truth

So apparently the Media played a major role in

disseminating the "Coca Cola + Aspirin = HIGH"

propaganda. You did not indicate whether it was the Coca

Cola company that sponsored the TV ads or an aspirin

company. I would guess that an aspirin company would be

the likely source; Coca Cola has too much credibility to

lose on obviously illegitimate claims.

Message no. 63
Friday, January 24, 2003 4:56pm
Subject can you get high with coca-cola and aspirin?

I was searching to see if it was true or false about

coca-cola with aspirin can get you high. I used the

search engine google and typed in the words "coca-cola

with aspirin". I didn't encounter any problems while I

was searching. The website I found was

www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

On this website I found out the truth about this urban

legend. Apparently, combining aspirin with coca-cola

does NOT make you high. Nor is it a hang-over cure or

an aprodisiac.

Message no. 103[Branch from no. 63]
Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:20pm
Subject Re: can you get high with coca-cola and aspirin?

Aloha Alicia- I had never heard of this urban legend

until now and it dumbfounds me concerning how it got

started. Next thing you'll hear is that mixing chocolate

milk and banana leaves will make one hallucinate! In my

personal experience no drug like effect held in urban

lore has effected my senses to the extent of what it

claims. Smoking banana leaves only gets you light

headed (which any type of leaf probably would do if you

smoked it), oysters,although extensively delicious, does

not get me horny, and mixing gaurana and friut loops

does not influence me to run all day. These acts of

potion-making should be left to the minority who look

for any conceivable way to alter their minds and/or

moods.Bye.

Message no. 286[Branch from no. 103]
Friday, February 14, 2003 12:23pm
Subject Re: can you get high with coca-cola and aspirin?

I had not heard of this legend either. I wanted to

comment on the oyster thing though because a student in

my ethology class is actually doing an experiment with

sea anemones and how eating oysters affects their

reproductivity. So that might not be such a myth. It

might make you more fertile, not necessearily more horny.

Message no. 350[Branch from no. 286]
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 5:36pm
Subject Re: can you get high with coca-cola and aspirin?

The oyster thing interested me. I agree that it might

not make you horney, but it could very well have

something to do with fertility. There is a flower called

the ilima (I don't know how it is spelled correctly) but

it helps fertility.

Message no. 344[Branch from no. 63]
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:17am
Subject Re: can you get high with coca-cola and aspirin?

Of course it's not true. I could see how people who

know nothing about science or chemistry could believe

it, but to most people nowadays it should seem

inherently ludicrous. Or maybe not. In high school I

freaked my stupid girlfriend out by putting pop rocks in

my mouth and then drinking Coke. She literally freaked

out and begged me not to do it. I'm sorry, but man was

she dumb. Maybe it goes to show that some people will

believe anything.

I think what's really interesting about the whole Coke

phenomenon is that it actually used to have cocaine in

it. You may think that I'm retarded as just as dumb as

the people who think Coke and aspirin will get you high,

but look it up. That was back before the media and

government freaked out and outlawed everything.

Message no. 345[Branch from no. 344]
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 11:53am
Subject Re: can you get high with coca-cola and aspirin?

Roderic is right. Coke did have cocaine in it. I

remember learning it from several teachers. Here are

two sites from two different places that you can check

out:

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp

http://www.foodreference.com/html/fcocacola.html

It's good that Roderic pointed it out and I'm just

merely supporting his claim, not posting up a research

topic. Now we see a new side, a side that tells us,

"hey, maybe that's why there was this belief of coke

and aspirin getting you high. Coke had cocaine; cocaine

makes you high. So if you take aspirin and something

that makes you high, then it's likely that you'll get

high anyway."

Message no. 465[Branch from no. 63]
Saturday, March 1, 2003 3:27pm
Subject Re: can you get high with coca-cola and aspirin?

I also used the same web site and found another at

http://www.jiskha.com/health/substance_abuse/aspirin.html

this article states that like 10 years ago, by combining

coca cola with aspirin would get people high and that

many "idiotic" people would end up overdosing from

aspirin. Talk about retarded.

Message no. 515[Branch from no. 63]
Sunday, March 9, 2003 5:56pm
Subject Re: can you get high with coca-cola and aspirin?

Although I have never heard about this myth, I really do

not think that by combining these two substances it

would make a person high. Maybe for a person that has a

low tolerance for caffine it might alter their mood a

litlle, but other than that I do not think it would

affect a person very much.

Message no. 69
Friday, January 24, 2003 9:23pm
Subject not so

This is the third time I've tried to post this, so

I'll be rather brief this time around. First I

visited Coke's website. Here I found a myths/rumours

section,

http://www2.coca-cola.com/contactus/myths_rumors/index.html

but nothing the rumour that coke and asprin mix to form

a psychoactive substance. This suggests that the rumour

isn't even common enough to warrent a response.

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp was somewhat

more helpful. Here I found some background to the myth,

and, more importantly, a refutation of it. I was unable

to find anything that appeared to corroborate the claim

anywhere.

http://www.haematologica.it/e-letters/past/2001_29.html

The closest I came was an article concerning a case of

anemia related to high levels of aspirin and coke

intake. There was no reference to any psychoactive

effects, however, so while interesting, this led

nowhere.

It seems that this isn't a very common myth, as there

was not much information to be had. What information

there is, however, was all contrary to the claim. This

suggests the rumour was just that.

Message no. 77
Sunday, January 26, 2003 9:15pm
Subject will it kill you?

The answer is no, drinking down an aspirin with coke

will not kill you and if it was I would be dead a long

time ago. It's a little urban legend that some

highschool kids probably picked up. I went to some

websites and they all confirmed that it is a false myth.

One of the websites are:

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

Message no. 709[Branch from no. 77]
Saturday, April 5, 2003 7:36pm
Subject Re: will it kill you?

thank you donna...now i can drink coke and take asprin

without worrying about any sort of horrible death coming

to me. unless my mother spikes my coke with rat poison

again...i hate it when she does that ;)

Message no. 78
Sunday, January 26, 2003 9:18pm
Subject my response to "a little bit of truth"

I'm surprised at how thorough you were with your

research. I guess some of your findings could be right,

especially dealing with the chemicals and stuff, but I

think for the most of it the claim is false. Maybe it

might make you a little bit more hyper then you usually

would be with the asprin and the caffeine mixed in you

system but, not high.

Message no. 81
Sunday, January 26, 2003 9:51pm
Subject Research topic message: "Is there any validity to combining Coca-Cola and aspirin?"

For this week's research topic I chose to find out

whether or not a "high" can be produced by combining

Coca-Cola with household aspirin. My first search was

through Google.com in which I used the phrase "coke with

aspirin" to find related material. This search produced

7,830 "hits" out of which only one site

(www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp)in my opinion was

relavant.

From what I gathered, the whole Coke and aspirin thing

is an urban legend. There wasn't anything really

substantial to lead me to believe otherwise. The actual

process of doing the search went well though. My search

did produce over seven thousand mishits, but the site I

ended up using was first on the list.

For the second search I chose to use Ask Jeeves which is

a search engine that enables you to literally ask a

question. My question was "does combining Coke with

aspirin produce a high?". Again I recieved an excess of

unrelated topics having to do with either just Coke or

just aspirin. There was one site

(http://getty.net/texts/drugs.txt), however, that

refuted the notion of a supposed high.

Message no. 108
Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:22pm
Subject Coca-Cola with aspirin

In my opinion, I don't think that combining C0ca-Cola

and aspirin will get you high. In this search, I tried

to look for the evidence against this claim. I used the

terms "Coca-Cola with aspirin." I found some information

using the Google. I had no problem finding them.

I am not sure how reliable this site is, but the person

who wrote this site actually experimented with Coca-Cola

and aspirin himsself. He said it didn't make him high

or faint after all.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=coca-cola+with+aspirin&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=6ivvj1%24r2q%247%40nntp1.ba.best.com&rnum=1

This site also mentions that there is no evidence that

Cola-Cola with aspirin will make you high.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=coca-cola+with+aspirin&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=6ickts%245p6%40examiner.concentric.net&rnum=2

Message no. 149
Monday, February 3, 2003 10:04pm
Subject why I'm in college!

call me naive, but i'd never heard of the coke and

aspirin trick until this class. that's why i'm in

college! i typed in 'coke and aspirin' on yahoo and i

got an assortment of good, bad and indifferent sites.

some sites were about people's personal experiences with

C&A, some were about myths and other things and a few

were actually scientific.

a website with actual information is

healthcentral.com/peoplespharmacy/pp_guides/PDF/aspirin.pdf

entitled Key Aspirin Information. this had interesting

facts such as 'humans consume 80 million aspirins

daily.' that's a lot. it also deflated such myths as

coke and aspirin as an aphrodisiac.

all i have to say is how random is this topic?! that,

and i laughed totally hard at some of the personal

stories on the web about when people tried coke and

aspirin. for what it's worth, it's pretty funny.

Message no. 171[Branch from no. 149]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 11:01pm
Subject Re: why I'm in college!

Don't worry, I have never heard of it either. But, I

heard from somebody that the aspirin will work faster

with coffee (caffein) than without it. I wonder if it

is true. In any case, caffein in coke or coffee can

become addictive and harmful to health if you consume

too much.

Message no. 615[Branch from no. 149]
Wednesday, March 26, 2003 10:04pm
Subject Re: why I'm in college!

You know I never heard of C&A either but God bless the

people that come up with this stuff. Think of all the

stuff that we as a people would have missed out on if

somebody didn't take the time to at least try. Things

like rum and Coke, Coke floats, or even Cherry Coke

would be nonexistent if not for that first guy to try it

all. So I would like to take this time to say thank you

first guy! Even though not everything you came up with

worked we still appreciate the effort.

Message no. 189
Thursday, February 6, 2003 4:28pm
Subject Another Urban Legend

I reseached The topic of Coca-Cola and Aspirin. The search terms I used were just that: Coca-Cola, Aspirin. There were quite a few matches. I chose the first match that included both of the key words. The search engine I used was MSN, and it worked very well. Here are the web sites that I visited on this topic:

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

http://www.snopes.com/sources/cokelore/cokelore.htm

 

The idea of mixing Coca-Cola and Aspirin has been said to make you high. It may also cause instant death or act as an aphrodisiac. Well, according to my research all of these theories are false. Nothing more than an old' wives tale or if you prefere, an urban legend. This silly rumor may have started in the 1930's by a doctor who wrote in a journal about teenagers who were dissolving the pills in their Cokes to make an intoxicating drink. The sites I visited say the doctor had no basis for writing the false rumor in the first place. This urban legend was so popular it made it's way into one of my all time favorite movies... Grease!

Message no. 251[Branch from no. 189]
Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:51pm
Subject Re: Another Urban Legend

Although it shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody that

coke and aspirin do nothing but maybe simultaneously

cure a headache and caffinate you, I liked the

information on your suggested websites. As long as

people are bored, I guess they'll eternally search for a

cheap and legal high--banana peels...I even heard tree

bark when I was in middle school. I don't know what's

wrong with people, but I'm kind of embarrassed for our

species sometimes.

Message no. 274
Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:05pm
Subject Mixing=Buzz?

I didn't run into much trouble finding relevent

articles concerning this topic. I went to Yahoo.com and

entered: Coca cola, Aspirin and Side effects as my

search words. There were thirty-two articles to choose

from and the only dilemma I ran into was which articles

to pick. I ended up deciding on these two:

www.improvingsex.com/articles/romance/aphrodisiacs.myth.magic.htm

www.jiskha.com/health/substance_abuse/aspirin.html

The overall impression I got from these two articles is

that the rumors of getting high and getting horny are

both unsubstantiated. Completing this search task made

we aware of these rumors for the first time. According

to the first website the rumors began in the 1930's and

was induced by the American Medical Association who

stated that coke and aspirin were similar to hard core

narcotics and that they were very addictive. This was

found to be untrue but led to a wave of teenagers

combining the two with the goal of getting high. There

was also a wide held belief that combining these two

results in a mixture which is an apphrodisiac for young

women. There is no evidence of euphoric sensations but

studies have found that the two combined are good for

hangovers. Seemingly the caffein in the coke increases

the effect of the aspirin. The second website was a

little more depressing. It referred to television ads 20

years ago which stated that if taken together these two

components would lead to a "buzz". This faulty reasoning

led to an abundance of overdoses soon after and by 1985

morphed into the drug of choice for suicide attempts.

This goes to show how misinformation combined with

thought processes and behaviors of immature minds can

lead to lives lost.

Message no. 359[Branch from no. 274]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:49am
Subject Re: Mixing=Buzz?

First of all I have to admit that I found the claim that

asprin and coke gets you high was kind of silly. But

then again it is a drug and maybe if taken in large

enough doses with soda it could produce a similar high

effect. I don't know. It was kind of scary to find out

that people have actually died from this combination and

have even used this as a method of suicide.

Message no. 301
Sunday, February 16, 2003 9:15am
Subject Intoxicating Mixture

I'm soo behind!

Message no. 302
Sunday, February 16, 2003 9:32am
Subject Intoxicating Mixture (2)

I just did a basic search for proof of the claim

that Coca-Cola and aspirin will get you "high". The

answer: No people, it dosn't work, there are better

ways to get high! It was suprising to see, when looking

into the website further, how many urban legends have

been engrained into my belief system as being true

during my teen years.

For my first two searches, I used the words

Coca-Cola and aspirin separatly. Results were too broad

to even look for a connection. I entered just,

"coca-cola and aspirin" and I hit on the exact info I

wanted. I used Google and Yahoo and found that they

both came out with similar results almost in the same

order of relevance. The best website was

snopes.com/cokelore/ aspirin.asp.

Message no. 326
Monday, February 17, 2003 12:38pm
Subject Painkiller combination

In this search I looked for the the affects of combining

Coco-Cola with aspirin. I used the search words

Coco-cola + Aspirin. I used www.google.com for my

search. I came upon this website that I thought was

pretty good. I didn't encounter any problems with my

search today.

www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

In this article, combining Coco-cola and aspirin will

not get you high. There are several myths or urban

legends about the effects of coco-cola and aspirin.

Some people believe it's an aphrodisiac, a great way to

get high, could cause instant death, and/or it cures

headaches. No other products will do, it is always

Coco-cola and the aspirin. No other soft drink or

medication will do.

These beliefs have been around for decades. High school

students usually spread these myths. There has been

incidents in which some girls in the U.S. kept an eye on

their coke drinks fearing that someone might slip

aspirin into their drinks making them fall weak and

prey. Other kids believed that downing aspirin and

cokes will make them lightheaded and silly.

The teen years are a time of experimentation. Everything

seems to be a mystery, so they seem to fall for myths.

A teen is enchanted by the notion of getting high from

combining Coke and aspirin.

What is a benefit of combining Coke and aspirin is that

Cok helps rehydrate an alcohol dried body, and aspirin

eases the physical suffering of a pounding head. When

served together, it seems to have a greater pain-killing

effect

Message no. 334
Monday, February 17, 2003 9:26pm
Subject Getting High on Coca Cola and Aspirin

I did a general search for and against the claim about

the coca cola and aspirin high. Here are the places

I've searched and the results I've obtained:

Hawaii Voyager (UHM) http://uhmanoa.lib.hawaii.edu/ coca

cola AND aspirin (no results) "coca cola" AND aspirin

(no results) "coca cola" AND "aspirin" (no results)

Hawaii Medical Library

http://uhmanoa.lib.hawaii.edu/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi

"coca cola" AND "aspirin" (no results)

Alt-PressWatch, a ProQuest® database

http://micro189.lib3.hawaii.edu:2132/ "coca cola" AND

"aspirin" (no results) coca cola and aspirin (1 hit)

 

EBSCOhost (includes TOPICsearch, Newspaper Source, Alt

HealthWatch, Health Source - Consumer Edition, Primary

Search, MAS Ultra - School Edition, Military Library

FullTEXT, Psychology and Behavioral Sciences Collection,

ERIC Health Source: Nursing/Academic Edition, Academic

Search Premier)

http://micro189.lib3.hawaii.edu:2131/search.asp?tb=1&_ug=dbs+0%2C6%2C7%2C9%2C11%2C14%2C15%2C17%2C18%2C21%2C22+ln+en%2Dus+sid+6D6FAE13%2D5164%2D4C20%2D85F7%2D6C7FBBE55CBB%40sessionmgr5+CDF4&_us=dstb+DB+ex+default+hs+0+sm+ES+ss+SO+EAE3&newsrch=1

coca cola AND aspirin (no results) coca cola and aspirin

(5 hits:default fields)

www.yahoo.com "coca cola and aspirin will make you high"

(no results) "coca cola and aspirin"+high (12 hits) "get

high on coca cola and aspirin" (no results) "coca cola

and aspirin is an aphrodisiac" (no results)

www.altavista.com "get high on coca cola and aspirin"

(no results) "coca cola and aspirin will make you high"

(no results) "coca cola and aspirin is an aphrodisiac"

(no results)

www.google.com "coca cola and aspirin is an aphrodisiac"

(no results) "coca cola and aspirin will make you high"

(no results) "get high on coca cola and aspirin" (no

results) "coca cola and aspirin" +"get high" (7 results

same as yahoo) "coca cola and aspirin" +"aphrodisiac" (4

results)

I had problems narrowing down the search because I found

many websites that refuted this claim, but I had a very

difficult time finding an argument for this claim.

Here's one article I've run across that is against this

claim:

"Where legends go to die" Toronto Star

http://micro189.lib3.hawaii.edu:2131/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=dbs+0%2C6%2C7%2C9%2C11%2C14%2C15%2C17%2C18%2C21%2C22+ln+en%2Dus+sid+6D6FAE13%2D5164%2D4C20%2D85F7%2D6C7FBBE55CBB%40sessionmgr5+CDF4&_us=bs+%28%7Bcoca++cola++and++aspirin%7D%29+ds+%28%7Bcoca++cola++and++aspirin%7D%29+dstb+ES+fh+0+hd+0+hs+0+or+Date+ri+KAAACBWB00007619+sm+ES+ss+SO+1212&cf=1&fn=1&rn=3

This article talks about most of the tihngs that have

been said to be true but are false and also refers a

site where you can look up any topic on legends called

www.snopes.com ("an online encyclodpedia of urban

legends" also posted by many other people that have

searched on this topic).

Message no. 346
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 2:55pm
Subject coke & aspirin bs

The specific aspect I was searching for was if mixing

coke and aspirin gets you high. I used google with the

search terms "coke aspirin". I had no problems, and the

very first website that popped up answered all my

questions. Here's the link:

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

One thing that I found on Snopes that cracked me up was

that it was in the movie Grease. That's one less reason

for me to ever want to see that movie.

Message no. 351
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 5:45pm
Subject Dear Pharmacist

In this search I looked up 'Coca cola and aspirin makes

you high' under msn.com. It was so simple, the first

information posted was useful.

http://www.naplesnews.com/02/09/marco/d811792a.htm

I found a small article in the Marco Island Eagle

magazine that was the question 'Does Coke and Aspirin

make you high?' addressed to a pharmacist, and he says

that it is non-sense. That rumor has been circulating

since 1930's found in a medical journal. Alas- the truth

comes out.

One more thing- I just found another interesting

article that also is against aspirin and coke getting

you high. It also states that when this myth was big,

there were a lot of deaths from overdoses of aspirin as

used when mixing with coke. Then later in 1985 aspirin

was the "drug of choice for suicide attempts." found

at:

http://www.jiskha.com/health/substance_abuse/aspirin.html

Message no. 368
Thursday, February 20, 2003 9:45pm
Subject Coke Urban Legends

I used the terms, "Coke and Aspirin" with Google on my

research today. I did not have any problems about

searching.

http://www.grahambrunk.com/coke.htm

There are about twenty interesting rumors (both true and

false)introduced in this site. For instance, it is true

that Coca-Cola used a special formula in there coke made

in Key West. it is not true that Coca-Cola was

originally green. This site mentions that it is not

true that Combining Coca-Cola and aspirin will get you

high. But it's true that Coca-Cola used to contain

cocaine.

Message no. 374
Friday, February 21, 2003 12:04pm
Subject just a myth

I wanted to originally do a search on evidence that

supports the myth that mixing coke with aspirin will get

you high. However, I could not find any sites that

supported it. Using yahoo, I did a search on the words

"coke" and "aspirin."

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~eggplant/feynman/6.html

I just found this site to be kind of funny. It's about a

college dude who does a lot of lame stunts just for

kicks. He had heard about the myth that if you take

aspirin with coke that you will either fall over dead,

or faint. So just to prove this myth wrong, he took 6

aspirins with coke using different methods (taking the

aspirin before drinking coke, drinking coke then taking

the aspirin, etc.) He did not faint and obviously he did

not die from the combination. He did not mention if he

felt a high because of it, but he did state that he had

trouble sleeping.

Message no. 463[Branch from no. 374]
Saturday, March 1, 2003 2:32pm
Subject Re: just a myth

Did you think that this could be true? There are so

many rumors or urban legends that you hear. I never

know to believe them or not. I found a site that has

1,000's of urban legends and stories that you have

heard. They will tell you if it is true or not. Even

if they do not have your specific story, you can email

them and they will research it for you. It is a great

site. It will tell you about computer viruses and

emails to watch out for. It even has stuff about

september 11th on it.

www.truthorfiction.com

Message no. 382
Friday, February 21, 2003 2:28pm
Subject I beleive it!. . . . (not really...)

Strangly enough, I have never heard of the purported

effects of mixing Coca Cola with aspirin until this

semester. Perhaps I am more immune to outlandish notions

promoted by the media and the ignorant public than I

previously believed!

I searched on Google.com (the trend, so it seems) for

"Coca Cola + Aspirin". I was rewarded with many hits

that were closely aligned with my topic of choice. The

most advantageous site was:

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

There are other phenomenom associated with the ingestion

of this mystical cocktail that range from the

preposterous to the reasonable. A few of these are: 1.

it's an aphrodisiac 2. it causes instant death 3. it

cures headaches

This urban myth was ironically first published in the

Journal of the American Medical Association in the

1930's. A [crackpot] Illinois doctor reported that

teenagers were ingesting this "dangerous" concoction and

often had narcotic-like addictiveness.

The only phenomenom that has some validity is the effect

of the mixture on headaches/hangovers. Dehydration is

often a cause of headaches/hangovers; Cocal Cola is

water based therefore alleviates this dilemma with

consumption of the mixture. Aspirin is known to reduce

pain, especially in the head, so it is no suprise that

it may work to reduce headaches, with or without Coca

Cola. Yet the two ingredients may together provide a

more effective remedy than ingesting either/or.

Perhaps I am likely to synthesize a nice combination of

two consumables that I have readily available,

especially the morning after a severe bout of

inebriation.

Further research in this area is not quite futile;

though there is no empirical evidence that a mixture

Coke and aspirin have any notably benificial or

detrimental consequences.

Message no. 508[Branch from no. 382]
Friday, March 7, 2003 8:17pm
Subject Re: I beleive it!. . . . (not really...)

I have also never heard of this urban legend until this

semester. I liked the site you listed. It's

interesting to see how people may see something occur

and then automatically assume that the other variable

was the cause. I think in the 1930's people believed

almost anything they were told. But in this century

many people are more skeptical to whatever they hear,

and this could be why we've never heard of this urban

legend before, and the fact that it has been proven to

be false.

Message no. 464
Saturday, March 1, 2003 3:25pm
Subject coca cola with aspirin

Using both MSN and Google as the search engines, and the

phrases "combining coca cola and aspirin" and "coca

cola, aspirin and high" I came up with a couple of

articles that explains this myth.

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

http://www.jiskha.com/health/substance_abuse/aspirin.html

In summary, both articles state that combining coca cola

with aspirin is just a myth and does not get a person

high. This has been used by experimenting teenagers who

are on the look out for a cheap "high".

Message no. 498
Friday, March 7, 2003 11:03am
Subject False urban myth

I searched www.yahoo.com using the keywords 'coca-cola

and aspirin will get you high' I found many websites

that stated that this rumor was false. I found one

particular website that was helpful in explaining the

origins of the myth. You can read about it at

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp. This website

also says that it has been rumored to be an aphrodisiac,

cure for headaches and hangovers, and can cause instant

death. It tells how the idea was started and the

psychology behind why teens might beleive this. Other

websites said that coca-cola used to contain cocaine, so

the truth of this statement may have been more valid

then.

Message no. 547
Friday, March 14, 2003 1:25pm
Subject How did it Start?

I wanted to use this search engine www.skworm.com

because I have never used this site and I saw it upon

reading it on a discussion posting. I was trying to

find sites that said coca cola and aspirin will give you

a high because I had a difficult time looking for this

previously.

Here are my search terms:

"urban legends" +"coca cola"

"coca cola" +"aspirin"

"coca cola" +"aspirin" -"cocaine"

"coca cola and aspirin"

I did not find any articles on:

http://www.nih.gov

http://search.intelihealth.com

http://www.healthfinder.gov

http://www.mayohealth.org

http://search.onhealth.webmd.com

http://www.healthtouch.com

I had problems with some of these links because skworm

provides a host of other search engines and I

experienced a few broken links when I wanted to search.

I did find this article at

http://www.improvingsex.com/articles/romance/aphrodisiacs.myth.or.magic.htm

This article is mostly about aphrodisiacs, but it talks

about how the rumor of coca cola and aspirin came to be.

Here'san excerpt because only part of it pertains to

coca cola and aspirin:

"Another aphrodisical myth that became popular with

teenagers several decades ago is that mixing Coca-Cola

and aspirin make people, particularly girls, more

willing to have sex. The origin of this rumor is

unclear, but it may have come from a mention in the

Journal of the American Medical Association back in the

1930s. It warned that teenagers were consuming the

combination to get high and that it was as addictive as

narcotics. This was a false statement, but it somehow

evolved into a rumor that the mixture also worked as an

aphrodisiac. There has been no evidence that the

concoction does stimulate libido, but it does seem to

help get rid of hangovers. The caffeine in Coca-Cola

apparently increases the effect of the aspirin."

Message no. 556
Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:18pm
Subject The truth about coca-cola and aspirin

For this research topic I was looking for anything to do

with the affects of coca-cola with aspirin. The search

terms that I used was "affects of coca-cola with

aspirin." The only problem that I had with this search

was that there was limited information on this subject.

Most of the sites had the same links or information.

The serch engine that I used was google. The web address

is:

www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

This article basically said that combining aspirin and

coca-cola is a myth. The origin of the "gets you high"

belief began in the 1930's. A doctor wanted to warn

that teenagers were dissolving aspirin in coca-cola to

create an "intoxicating" beverage with additived

properties that were as bad as narcotic habituation.

This rumor eventually died down after realizing that his

claim was baseless.

Message no. 561
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 10:28am
Subject Coke and aspirin

I really want to find some information supporting this

statement about coca-cola and aspirin getting people

high, or some kind of effect. I searched in google

(under news) and found nothing. So I searched in Yahoo

(under health)and found one interesting article. I used

the phrases, "dangerous aspirin and coca-cola",

"dangerous aspirin", and "side effects of aspirin".

The article was at

www.healthcentral.com/peoplespharmacy/pp_guides/PDF/aspirin.pdf.

Unfortunately, once again they said that the combination

of Coca-cola and aspirin is a myth and they have no idea

where it came from. But it did give information about

combining other types of prescriptons and drugs.

Some examples were: alchol and aspirin causes aggravated

stomach irritation, and baking soda and aspirin makes

urine alkaline. There are a lot more listed (but I

never heard of the drugs). It also gives information in

general about aspirin and some side effects.

Message no. 708
Saturday, April 5, 2003 7:34pm
Subject true fictions?

i wanted to discuss not just the coca-cola with asprin

urban legends, but urban legends as a whole genre of

fiction.

i looked up a couple different sites using the MSN

search engine (i'm beginning to like "google" better...)

http://www.snopes.com/ http://www.urbanlegends.com/ and

none of them really gave insight as to where did they

come from...what i did find was a delightful array of

urban legends. these stories covered all aspects of

life...food, travel of all sorts, horror, sex, and even

war. i looked up a few that looked interesting, war,

horror, sex (whoa, that says a lot about my own psyche)

and was extremely amuzed at what these stories

said...and how many of them the sights said had been

proven as true!

it seems that the reason these stories continue is that

they are just plain amuzing. and from what i can tell,

in my limited knowledge of the psychological sciences,

is that humans enjoy two different things...1) things

that amuze them, and 2) things that intrigue/mistify

them...and that is undoubtedly what urban legends do.

they are amuzing to hear (i had fun reading about these

things...but i'm just weird like that) and they are a

mystery. no one really knows where they came from, or

if they are even true.

so, i guess the point is that...yeah, we're not sure

where they came from, or if they are true. but half of

these are just so far-fetched that it doesn't really

matter. enjoy them, and look at it this way...the

person you're reading about...wasn't you...so who

cares..right? :)

Message no. 714
Saturday, April 5, 2003 8:27pm
Subject how true is the myth?

Using the google search engine, I typed in "coca-cola"

and "aspirin" and got quite a lot of results, I then

added one more word, "high" and got even more relevant

results.

I first read the article from

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp and it states

in the beginning that it's false to claim that combining

coca-cola and aspirin will make you high. The myth is

probably invented by some adventurous high-school

students. It also suggests that the belief came up in

the movie Grease released in 1978.

Another article that I read was retrieved from

http://www.jiskha.com/health/substance_abuse/aspirin.html.

It says that the "faulty reasoning has led to serious

and fatal overdoses by many thrill seekers".

Since I was raised in Hong Kong, and maybe the culture

overthere is different from what it is here, I've never

heard that coca-cola and aspirin will make you high.

Teenagers in Hong Kong are also thrill-seeking, but I

think they might not go as far as teenagers in the US.

Message no. 732
Sunday, April 6, 2003 3:00pm
Subject urban legends...fact or fiction

http://www.urbanlegends.com/

this is a website that gives more of our favorite

fictional factoids. i'm still trying to find somewhere

that someone explains why it is that we all find these

stories so interesting and entertaining. is it just me,

or is it fun to hear about these...even though we look

at them and think "thats rediculous."

Message no. 770
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 9:16pm
Subject Coke and Coke

I found this sit using the search terms "coke and

aspirin" at Vivisimo.com. I twasn't hard to find at

all.

http://vivisimo.com/search?query=coca-cola+and+aspirin&v%3Asources=AltaVista%2CMSN%2CNetscape%2CLycos%2CLooksmart%2CFindWhat

The site allows readers to send questions to a a chemist

or scientist. The question was: Originally, Coca Cola

had cocaine. The current can claims "original" recipe.

Does this contain cocaine? If not, how can they

advertise original?

Answer: I think they're referring to "original" in the

sense of "the same as it was before 1978 or so, when the

Coca-Cola company tried to change the recipe and

introduced a new drink called "New Coke" or, just plain

"Coke." So many people got angry and demanded that the

company change back that they started selling two kinds

of coke, "Coke" and "Coke Classic." Nobody bought "Coke"

and so they eventually stopped selling it and now "Coke

Classic" is just plain "Coke" again. Coke had cocaine

in it long ago; it is flavored with an extract from the

coca leaf (the plant from which cocaine is extracted).

Back a long time ago cocaine was being touted as "the

new aspirin" and was available from the corner drug

store, just like aspirin.

Then people started getting addicted to it, it was made

illegal in the US, and Coke susbtiuted caffeine for the

cocaine to give the drink a "lift" without the

addiction...but the coca leaf extract is still used in

Coke as far as I know.

 

Message no. 785
Friday, April 11, 2003 11:38am
Subject history of coca-cola with aspirin

I went into msn.com and found the site

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp when I typed

in "coca-cola with aspirin". It was easy and not hard

to find at all.

This article talked about the history of the myth and

how the rumor came about. It also talked about how kids

circulate this because it's something kids are curious

about. Teenagers are curious about what can get them

high and feel good and when they hear that coke and

aspirin can give that high, it becomes a mystery for

them. That's how rumors get spread!

Message no. 880
Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:49am
Subject Side Effects of Coke

Because we already know that Coca-Cola and aspirin does

not have any effects, I wanted to search for side

effects of Coca-Cola in general. I searched using yahoo

and used the phrase, „coca-cola side effects). A lot of

cool sites came up.

I found an article that has interesting information

about Coke, but I‚m not sure how true it is. Even then

so, it was still interesting. The article is by

„Mapfinš and it‚s at

www.mouthshut.com/readreview/7103-1.html. He states that

„the average pH of soft drinks, e.g. Coke, Pepsi is pH

3.4. This acidity is strong enough to dissolve teeth and

bones!š So you might want to limit you Coke intake or

make sure you rinse your mouth out after you drink soda.

He also mentions about a Coke competition held at Delhi

University, ‚‚Who can drink the most Coke?‚‚. The winner

drank 8 bottles and died on the spot because too much

carbon dioxide in the blood and not enough oxygen. From

then on, the principal banned all soft drinks from the

university canteen.

The most interesting part of Mapfin's article was that

he lists the benefits from Coke/Pepsi, but like I

mentioned, I don't know if these statements are true.

So, the benefits of Coke/Pepsi are:

1.To clean a toilet: Pour a can of Coca-Cola into the

toilet bowl. Let the ‚‚real thing‚‚ sit for one hour,

then flush clean. The citric acid in Coke removes stains

from vitreous china.

2.To remove rust spots from chrome car bumpers: Rub the

bumper with a crumpled-up piece of Reynolds Wrap

aluminum foil dipped in Coca-Cola.

3.To clean corrosion from car battery terminals: Pour a

can of Coca-Cola over the terminals to bubble away the

corrosion.

4.To loosen a rusted bolt: Applying a cloth soaked in

Coca-Cola to the rusted bolt for several minutes.

5.To remove grease from clothes: Empty a can of Coke

into a load of greasy clothes, add detergent, and run

through a regular cycle. The Coca-Cola will help loosen

grease stains. It will also clean road haze from your

windshield.

Message no. 941
Thursday, May 1, 2003 9:11pm
Subject rumor

I searched for information on whether coca-cola and

aspirin will make you high. I used the search engine

http://www.skworm.com using the words: coca-cola with

aspirin. I found this site

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/aspirin.asp

There was no problems with this search. This article

tried to refute and explain how all these urban myths

about coca-cola were established. This article says

that coca-cola with aspirin doesn't make you high. A

doctor in the 1930's warned teens not to dissolve

coca-cola with asprin because it can be addictive. This

of course was not true.

 

6. TALENTS OF SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE

Message no. 43
Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:03pm
Subject Talents of successful people

In the quest of searching articles for the claim "Many

successful people are no more talented than

unsuccessful people," I tried to find out what exactly

differentiates successful people from unsuccessful ones

in terms of their talents. In the back of my mind, I

already thought that what actually differentiates the

two is desire. I do believe that it is the desire or

motivation to be successful that separates successful

people from those unsuccessful, not their capabilities

or talents per se.

I went to Google.com and used phrases like "talents of

successful people" and even "many successful people are

no more talented than unsuccessful people." When using

the latter phrase, I actually got quite a number of

results and they were fairly good ones. However, when I

used more broad terms such as "talents of successful

people" or "unsuccessful people," I recieved many hits,

but a lot of them had a lot to do with success in

businesses or (religious) inspiration.

The actual phrase "Successful people are often not any

more talented than unsuccessful people" was found in a

short article at

http://www.fastfa.com/investing/articles/finishing.asp

but the following two articles are more worthwhile

looking at:

"How to Be a Perfect Failure" by Bill Harris, which can

be found at

http://chetday.com/secretofsuccess.htm

It explains the belief that high achievers have goals

and that failures serve as lessons along the way that

tell them to modify their plan of action. Another

important factor is persistence. You cannot be a

success if let yourself be defeated by failure.

The second article "The 13 Characteristics of

Successful People" by Jeffrey J. Mayer can be found at

http://www.succeedinginbusiness.com/JMArticles/13ch

aracteristics.shtml

and it has the same gist. Successful people have a

dream, a plan, specific knowledge or training, are

willing to work hard, and do not take no for an answer.

It even states "When you find you need a skill or

talent you don't have, just go out and look for a

person or group of people with the skills, talents, and

training you need." Then, by following those

"successful" people's plan of action, you too can

replicate their results.

Message no. 51[Branch from no. 43]
Friday, January 24, 2003 1:40pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

I agree with your original comment that desire and

motivation are more important to success than specific

talents. What seems to be more important though, is

determination or persistance which was mentioned in Bill

Harris' article. All the motivation in the world will

not attain a goal, or success, if there is not the drive

and determination to actually attain that success.

I think that opportunities and talent also affect a

person's success. If we look at success as a job

position, a person who has had the opportunities to

develop their personal talents may end up with the same

success as a determined person without those talents.

It would probably take more work for an untalented

person to reach that success, but they will reach it

because they are determined. The talented person may

reach success with more ease, but because they have

invested less personal resources in their success, they

may view it differently. Therefore, talent plays a role

in success but it does not determine who can or cannot

be successful.

Everyone has desires, but those with determination see

them through to success.

Message no. 56[Branch from no. 51]
Friday, January 24, 2003 3:31pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

This is a comment message for Renae Mendez:

You're right. I forgot to personally mention persistence

but I did say that Bill Harris pointed out that factor.

As your last sentence states "Everyone has desires, but

those with determination see them through to success,"

I suppose we can tweek it to make it more attuned to

the articles- "Everyone has desires, but those with

determination/perseverence and action see them through

to success." There are many things that affect (the

level of) success one can attain. Opportunities and

resources definitely play a part; and I'm sure everyone

else can think of many more factors. As in my reply to

Ana for her research, I brought up the topic of how the

meaning of success is not concrete. The meaning of

success alone could be another research topic all unto

itself.

I liked your sentence "If we look at success as a job

position, a person who has had the opportunities to

develop their personal talents may end up with the same

success as a determined person without those talents."

I went to dictionary.com and looked up the meaning of

talent and there were definitions that included the

words "innate" and "natural ability." I suppose we can

spot and name "talented" people, but then is "talent"

the word to describe them? I say it had a lot to do

with cultivating a skill or particular interest,

practice, etc. for a long period of time.

Message no. 64[Branch from no. 56]
Friday, January 24, 2003 4:59pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

I agree that persistence and motivation have a lot to

do with the successfulness of a person I agree that

persistence and motivation have a lot to do with the

successfulness of a person. I also think that it has a

lot to do with a person‚s thought processes. If a

person is very negative, it will be hard to see their

failures as an opportunity to grow. I think that

successful people have positive thought processes that

give them the capability to move through hard times and

use them to their advantage. I think that if a person

has a positive thought process, they will be more

persistent anyways because events in life will not get

them down as much.

Message no. 110[Branch from no. 51]
Friday, January 31, 2003 9:51am
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

Desire and motivation are two key factors that help make

talent possible. Everyone has some kind of talent inside

them. Motivation and desire helps bring about a certain

talent that an individual possesses. For example, a

person that can sing has it in them, but they need

practice as well as professional help to develop there

talent to perfection. Determination and persistence

mentioned by Bill Harris is true. You need this to bring

out the best in one's self. Motivation will only get one

so far, but if that individual possesses the drive to do

everything possible to become the best they can be;

there is no stopping them. Success as a job can be any

type of talent. If one possesses the knowledge and works

very hard to become his or her best they can beat

someone with the same talent who did not work as hard or

lacked the drive. Success is held in and individuals

hand. It is what you make of your talents, and how hard

you work at it.

Message no. 91[Branch from no. 43]
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:17pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

This is a comment message to Michelle Sagucio....

I agree that what seperates successful people from

unsuccessful people is desire or motivaion. Anyone can

achieve their goals if they want it bad enough. Most of

the time people just need direction and a mentor to help

them see their goals more clearly.

I also believe that surrounding yourself with motivated

people can aid in yor success because you can copy their

strategies for success. I personally believe this

because after semester after semester of just partying

and getting mediocre grades I decided to change my

priorities and started hanging out with people who were

motivated and succesful. It really pays of to be around

high achievers who can influence your motivation for

success.

Message no. 101[Branch from no. 43]
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:24pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

I agree with your statement that it is the desire or

motivation to be successful that separates successful

people from those unsuccessful, not their capabilities

or talents per se. But I wonder...what does it mean by

"successful people"? Are successful people the ones who

acquie the high social status? I feel that successful

people are the ones who know their mission in their life

and strive forward to accomplish it.

Message no. 106[Branch from no. 43]
Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:48pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

I think that it is true, what you said, about the

difference between success and failure is realy in

desire. I can use myself as an example of that. Time,

and time again, I have found that the things I am

actually interested in, I excel at. Where as the things

that I am NOT so interested, no matter how easy they may

be, I just don't do so well in. For example, I am NOT

very interested in a particular school subject, chances

are my grades will be far less than stellar. (such is

the case with some of my psych classes...ugh!) However,

in ROTC (Air Force) I am VERY interested in whats going

on, and have even had the honor of being selected as one

of the top cadets in the entire nation. Just

illustrating that when you have the desire to do well in

something, you will...and many times when you do NOT

have the desire, you also won't have the success!

Message no. 135[Branch from no. 43]
Sunday, February 2, 2003 10:31pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

I agree that successful people have to have the

persistence and the talent to become successful at what

they do, but I do not think that talent or skill in a

particular field would entirely lead to a person's

success. I believe the persistence and being given the

right opportunities will eventually lead a person to

become successful. Take for example all the people that

are looking for jobs with a college degree in this

state. Yet a friend of mine who dropped out of

highschool and only recently got a GED just got a job at

the Bank of Hawaii. Why was he chosen over the other

applicants who had college degrees and much more

experience in the work force? Simple his mother's good

friend is the person that does the hiring for the bank.

 

In the game life it's not what you know that makes you a

success, it's who you know.

Message no. 192[Branch from no. 43]
Thursday, February 6, 2003 6:15pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

I agree and don't agree with Michelle's message because

having talent doesn't necessarily mean a person is going

to be successful. But on the other hand, having

motivation, determination, and goals doesn't necessarily

mean a person is going to be successful.

I bet there is a lot of talented people in the world who

are not recognized for their talents such as acting,

dancing, singing, playing sports. But, I wouldn't say

they never tried hard enough or weren't determined or

motivated to work hard. Rather maybe they didn't know

the right people or others (scouts, agents, recording

producers) may have seen their talents as normal

compared to others. But, for the average Joe, their

talents can been seen as outstanding or better then

normal. However I do agree that motivation,

perservence and having dreams can make a person

successful. For instance, my friend's Grandpa is a

millionaire. But, he doesn't even know how to read. So

how could someone explain his sucess? Was he really

that motivated?

Message no. 49
Friday, January 24, 2003 2:16am
Subject First search for talents of successful people

Since this was my first search I was not sure what kind

of results I would attain so I focused on the general

aspect of whether there is a difference between

successful and unsuccessful people.

I used a variety of terms to do this search on Google

such as: 1. successful people + talents 2. "talents of

successful people" 3. "what makes people successful" 4.

unsuccessful people +traits

The problems that I had was narrowing the topic because

I was getting stories about a variety of things such as

sports, leadership, spirituality, books on how to be a

successful business owner, etc.

However, I found an article that supports that argument

that successful and unsuccessful people are virtually

the same. It can be found in this link:

http://www.playyourgame.com/butch_11262001.html

and it is actually talking about sports, but I felt it

can be applied to more general terms.

The other article I found was in this link:

http://www.inhymn.com/Articles/Commentary/comment_00000070.htm

This is a short article about what makes a person

successful and it gives polar examples of successful and

unsuccessful people such as: successful people work hard

to get where they are at today while unsuccessful people

just look for the easiest way to do it.

Message no. 54[Branch from no. 49]
Friday, January 24, 2003 3:04pm
Subject Re: First search for talents of successful people

This is a comment message for Ana Inos on "First search

for talents of successful people":

I can agree with what you went through. I wasn't sure

how I could have narrowed the topic; yes, there were a

lot on businesses, sports, and spirituality. Maybe we

could have used the phrase "in general" as a keyword to

add to the other search phrases we used? (I haven't

tried it, but I just thought of it now. I'm not sure if

that would eliminate some of the articles we don't

want.)

There are a number of things that differentiate

successful people from unsuccessful ones. And I think

the meaning of "success" also matters. What is

successful? Is it being rich, being in a top position at

a company, having many children, being able to save $5

a week, etc.? With such a broad topic, I think we can

maybe focus on aspects such as the situation: being

successful in college, in the workplace, etc. and maybe

we will get something more specific to write about.

I plan to revisit this topic and if you do also, maybe

you can give me some tips?

Message no. 70[Branch from no. 54]
Sunday, January 26, 2003 12:14am
Subject Re: First search for talents of successful people

I have to agree with you as well...after my search ended

I was wondering what I would focus on especially the

definition on success so I guess what I was planning on

doing is start with my own definition of success and

then work from there...for example let's say that

success means just having effort or motivation to do

something...then we can define effort or motivation and

then look for examples from there.

It is kinda tough to find sites or topics that would

support and oppose both sides but I think once we get

the hang of searching as well as becoming familiar with

the search engine then it should be okay.

One thing that I did while I was searching was writing

down the search terms that I used and the search engine

I used it in...then I compiled a list of the articles I

found and wrote a short summary of what it was about so

that when I do the report I will have an easier time to

know what sites to use for the opposing arguments....I

hope this helps you =)

Message no. 157[Branch from no. 49]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 3:31pm
Subject Re: First search for talents of successful people

This is in reply to Ana's first message. You did a good

search first of all. I checked out the second website

that you listed and wanted to paste some of the

information from it on my reply so that others can scan

it:

Successful people tweak the rules...and tend to color

outside the lines. Unsuccessful people play strictly

by the rules & stay contained within guidelines.

Successful people have definite goals/direction for

their lives. Unsuccessful people are more

reactive...sometimes running in circles...always chasing

something...but like peddling a stationary bike, never

getting anywhere.

Successful people are persistent/determined. They know

what they want, and they are terribly stubborn and

focused to attain it. (And by the way, successful

people are not always the easiest people to live with!)

Unsuccessful people "try" things...always experimenting

and they seem to jump on (and off) every bandwagon that

comes down the road.

Successful people work harder, longer, with more focus,

although they don't always know it. They tend to think

more clearly...usually tinkering until they get it

right. Unsuccessful people look for the easiest way

out...doing as little as they can to get by.

Successful people have lots of friends and rich personal

networks. They seek for advice from the best people.

Unsuccessful people, strange as it may seem are more

likely to give advice...and rarely ask for it...and tend

to avoid additional learning beyond college or seminary.

Successful people seem to be naturally generous and

giving. They give away their

ideas...time...energy...humor... creativity...and money

to people and organizations. Unsuccessful people are

afraid of being ripped off...and rarely give or

contribute.

- this was a list of successful people verses

unsuccessful people. I find it amazing that the author

from Stanford University, writing a book on 'Church' can

categorize successful and unsucceful people. What

happened to unity, and helping others? What happened to

equality and striving to be a good person? It expecially

disturbed me that this was coming from an author writing

about pro church. What happened to religion? And we

wonder why the world is at war.

Message no. 447[Branch from no. 49]
Friday, February 28, 2003 12:02pm
Subject Re: First search for talents of successful people

The article you found was interesting and points out a

lot of things that are true. There is a difference

between successful people and unsuccessful people

because of determination and creativity. Those who are

successful in our society do go above and beyond those

who are unsuccessful. We hear success stories and the

main theme is that they kept with what they are after

and they never give up.

Message no. 62
Friday, January 24, 2003 4:52pm
Subject Talents of successful people

I used Yahoo to find this article. I used the

keywords „successful peopleš. I found this and other

helpful articles on my first try. The article is titled

„The Psychology of Successš by Matthew Herper. The

address for this article is:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/forbes_psychology_021113.html

This article discusses the possible differences between

entrepreneurs and other people. The researchers who

studied this tried to narrow down key personality traits

characteristic of entrepreneurs. At the beginning of

the article it discusses some of the historical thoughts

about the difference between successful and unsuccessful

people. One idea was that the successful people were

more charismatic which made them excellent salespeople.

Another was that they thought of risk in a different

way. Some researchers thought that risks were

conceptualized differently in that they may be

downplayed or consequences were taken lighter than the

average person. The article then went on to say that

many more recent studies have disproved these

hypotheses. The article points out that they may

actually think differently so that they are not able to

imagine failure as much.

Message no. 229[Branch from no. 62]
Sunday, February 9, 2003 1:44am
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

I agree about the idea that charismatic people are often

more successful than others. Where I work the

salespeople that make the most money are the ones that

know how to persuade customers to spend an additional

$1000 on repairs and maintanence that they do not even

need! Some of these salepeople do not even know what

they are selling, but they know how to size up a person

to see how much they know about a car, and the less the

customer knows the more technical they speak to the

customer, so the customer does not understand what the

salesperson is talking about and thinks that it is

essential to get that job done.

Message no. 329[Branch from no. 62]
Monday, February 17, 2003 2:10pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

Success is defined differently in differnt cultures. In

Eastern Asian cultures, they may define success as

someone who is quiet,don't speak much, and someone who

values family. In the U.S.A., we value independence

rather than interdependence. We also place a strong

value for material things such as money, car, house,

etc. We live in a materialistic society, so success is

usually defined as how much money one has.

Success is also in the eyes of the beholder. What one

person might think is successful or envy another for,

another person may not even care. It depends what the

person places emphasis on as to what equals success. As

for me, success is equal to doing well in school, having

no enemies, and making my parents proud. Everyone's

definition of success may be different.

Message no. 337[Branch from no. 62]
Monday, February 17, 2003 10:07pm
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

Success is measured in so many different ways. Many

people define success as being wealthy or how much money

they have in the bank or how many houses they own. Some

people define success by how many degree's they have or

how many businesses they operate. I define success as

being truely happy in one's life. So many people now

days have very busy lives or have to work 3 jobs to

support the unintentional family and seem so incredibly

unhappy. But if that person is truely and deeply happy,

I think there is no greater success in life.

Message no. 92
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:46pm
Subject "The Secret to Your Sucess"

For this research topic I wanted to looks for specific

qualities that successful people possess that make them

successul.

I used the search engine Skworm and I used the serach

terms talents - successful- people. I found this

article on the Minority Affairs website at www.minority

affairs.com/articles.htm

It contains a really specific guideline to achieve

success in life and the qualites we need to learn.

Ten keys to success include: Ambition, Focus,

Motivation, Experience Oportunity, Making Decisions,

Accepting Mistakes, Being Self-Reliant, Sending the

Right Message, and Enthusiasm.

Message no. 378[Branch from no. 92]
Friday, February 21, 2003 1:38pm
Subject Re: "The Secret to Your Sucess"

I thought this article was interesting and a little

common sense. Most of us know you have to have

Ambition, Focus, Motivation, Experience Opportunity,

Making Decisions, Accepting Mistakes, Being

Self-Reliant, Sending the Right Message, and Enthusiasm

to be successful; the problem is often applying it to

our lives! In my case the hardest point for me to apply

is accepting mistakes. I often review a situation and

think of many other ways I could have handled myself. A

key point I think is missing is DETERMINATION. If you

are determined to be successful there is nothing that

can stop you. In everyone's life there will be ups and

downs, struggles and successes but it is the way you

choose to learn and move on that can determine if you

are a successful person.

Message no. 137
Monday, February 3, 2003 10:27am
Subject Re: Untalented, Successful People

Knowing that there are many untalented, successful

people out there in the world, I wanted to search

"Untalented, successful people" in the search engine

"yahoo". The only problem I had was that the websites

that came up wasen't the ones I was looking for.

The only good website that specifically addressed my

research was

http://www.bullymag.com/7.26.02/smith-072602.asp. The

whole article just bashed on Will Smith. It mentions

how Will, as untalented as he is, is so successful and

they don't understand why. It goes on to list his

movies, which they said was bad, such as "Men in Black",

"Wild Wild West", etc.

I don't think he is untalented, but I don't know about

his choice in movies he's chosen to be a part of. I

haven't seen any of his latest movies because I

interested in those type of fictional movies. I only

liked Will in "Fresh Prince" and maybe in "Bad Boys",

nothing else that I can think of. For his music, I'm

really not interested.

Message no. 163[Branch from no. 137]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 6:16pm
Subject Re: Untalented, Successful People

I think people tend to overlook money when they talk

about success. Many people are capable of obtaining a

PhD, but they just don't have the money. Will Smith has

a lot of money, and whether or not people think he's

funny, I don't think it really matters. If there was a

formula for success, it seems that it would have been

written by now. I think it's dangerous to generalize

why certain people are successful--thin ice. I wonder

what would happen to "talent" or "success" if finances

were distributed equally...

Message no. 430[Branch from no. 137]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:48pm
Subject Re: Untalented, Successful People

In reading this, I got to thinking that talent is, like

beauty, often in the eye of the beholder. I haven't

considered carefully whether I Think Will Smith is

particularly talented, certainly, for me, Smith would be

rather low on a large list of successfully untalented

people topped, of course, buy our current president. At

any rate, it is probably not fair to generalise; I'm

sure we can all think of any number of people who are

talented and unsuccessful, or untalented and successful,

or untalented and unsuccessful, or talented and

successful. What does success have to do with then? I

don't know that it's any one thing, but if it is I don't

know what that is either.

Message no. 215
Friday, February 7, 2003 3:50pm
Subject Talents of success

The topic "Many successful people are no more talented

than unsuccessful people", can be interpreted in many

possible ways, I chose a more literal interpretation;

that revolves around the definition of the term "talent"

In researching my topic I used google.com. and

Encarta.msn.com. The first search parameter I used was a

search on Encarta for a definition of talent:

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?search=Talent

I searched Google.com for the exact phrase "Many

successful people are no more talented than unsuccessful

people", and discovered that this is a fairly well known

quote, by Harvey McKay. Quite a few websites -

http://www.legalnews.net/2002-01.htm

http://www.healpastlives.com/pastlf/quote/quworkit.htm

-had this quote on their page, attributed to McKay

I then searched for the simpler phrase "successful

people", and was rewarded primarily with numerous offers

to sell me self-help books. However a few useful topics

came up, notably an article by Matthew Herper:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/forbes_psychology_021113.html

This article reveals research by psychologists on

successful entreprenuers; that these people possess a

few traits that helped their success. An observation

over years of interviewing successful entreprenuers was

that they tend to be more of a risk-taker; they dont

weigh consequences as much as normal people. Alexander

Zelaznick, a professor emeritus of psychology at Harvard

Business School, made this observation.

My research indicates that talent refers to a natural

ability to do something well. A natural ability is one

that is not so much a product of environmental

influences, but more genetic. Therefore this implies

that successful people have no more genetic

predisposition to be successful than unsuccessful; the

qualities that make a person successful are learned.

Qualities that lead to success such as risk-taking are

perhaps imprinted on individuals through their childhood

or adulthood experiences, but there is no empirical

evidence that this is fact.

To further research this topic, I would want to survey a

large group of successful people and similar group of

unsuccessful people and attempt to discover any notable

differences in personal traits.

Message no. 310[Branch from no. 215]
Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:25pm
Subject Re: Talents of success

I really do think that success has a lot to do with your

past experiences and sometimes a little luck. It does

seem that a lot of successful people take more risks

than the average person. Perhaps successful people are

more ambitious and willing to fail and become someone

than to just be ordinary. Success is something that you

must work hard for, but when you finally achieve your

goal it was well worth the hardships.

Message no. 275
Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:16pm
Subject Search for a Star...

*disclaimer...this is primarily based on oppinion and

observation...reader discression is advised*

While watching American Idol just the other night, it

became evident to me that this topic relates closely to

what is going on there on that show...

We have a large group of young adults (most of them) who

obviously have the desire and drive to accomplish a goal

and become a star. After watching the first season of

American Idols, you'd think that everyone would have

realized that it takes a lot to make it, especially with

the harsh criticizm that the contestants face during the

audition process. So, with that in mind, and seeing the

tens of thousands of auditioners in one town...I think

its safe to assume that these people have the drive and

desire to do what it takes to make it.

With the playing field pretty even on the "disire"

level...what we also have here is a demonstration of raw

talent. We find that the true determining factor is the

MIX of talent and desire. You can not survive a

competition of this level without one or the other. It

is evident of the people who have the drive and desire

because when they are not "invited to Hollywood" in the

initial auditions, they argue back with conviction and

fire. This demonstrates the drive...but what we see is

that with that drive and desire needs to come the raw

talent to work with. We can all agree that Kelly, the

winner from the first season, had MUCHO talent, and for

going that far and even auditioning she demonstrated the

all important drive.

So, after reading many of the posts, and watching them

go back and forth between what is important for success,

I have come to the conclusion that you really can't be

successful without both. While you do need talent to be

successful, if you do not have the drive to push you to

use that talent to its fullest...you won't go anywhere.

Likewise, if you have lots of drive, but no talent to

mold and work with...you are driving a car with no fuel.

Equal amounts of both are key

Talent + Drive/Desire = Success

Message no. 278[Branch from no. 275]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:43pm
Subject Re: Search for a Star...

When I read your article, I thought, "hey, he's right."

Yes, to pass the grueling process of American Idol, one

must have both desire and talent. I was just watching

it the other day and it didn't even occur to me that it

would provide good material for posting in this topic.

This was a good post in that you clearly illustrated an

example that showed how talent and desire are connected

with success. It makes sense in that particular

situation - a singing competition.

Nonetheless, it was refreshing to hear your point of

view amidst all this research for talents of successful

people. I think you brought up a good point.

Message no. 297[Branch from no. 278]
Friday, February 14, 2003 4:25pm
Subject Re: Search for a Star...

I agree with both of you about desire and talent, but I

think it shouldn't be limited to just the American Idol.

There are various kinds of competition out there

ranging from acting to educational positions such as

getting into graduate school or competing with

advertising companies about which commercial should be

broadcasted. It seems that as time continues that our

society is nurturing our competitiveness and sometimes

it shouldn't be just about competition, but just having

the desire and effort to follow through (even if you

don't succeed in what you set out to do).

Message no. 363[Branch from no. 275]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 6:14pm
Subject Re: Search for a Star...

Aloha- Drive and desire are so important for being

successful and it is sad when an individual has both of

these qualities but do not achive success. I belive that

many people in Third world countries have these two

characteristics but still live in poverty and

desolation. I wish I had the talent portion of this

formula because if I did I think I could be a performer

also, but lo and behold I was given a voice of a frog

with larengitis. The American idol show is a good one

with some substance but this show they have now, Are You

Hot?, goes in the opposite direction. Psychologists have

been for years trying to subtract the degree of

importance on physical attributes contributing to one's

own self worth and this show seemingly spits in their

face.Some people are going to be emotionally scarred by

criticism from such judges has the ever popular Lorenzo

Lolo Lamas and he should be dealt with by Karma in his

participation of the degredation of individuals merely

by how they appeal to others by shallow, surface

attributes(maybe he'll get warts on his face or

something) Although I'll feel bad about contributing to

the shows Nielson ratings, I'm pretty sure I'll be

watching and so will many others.C-ya.

Message no. 293
Friday, February 14, 2003 3:59pm
Subject equal talent unequal desire

I did my search today on the talents of successful

people. I wanted to find information on the subject of

successful people having the same amount of talent as

unsuccessful people. I used google(again, my favorite),

with the key words "successful people are no more

talented than unsuccessful people". I tried using broad

descriptions such as "successful people talents" and

"unsuccessful as talented", but there were too many hits

and not enough time to go through all of them. I got a

much more specialized search with the enitre phrase. The

web site I used was:

http://www.jackfertig.com/archive-mackay.html The site

was called Fertig's Notes by Harvey Mackay. It included

many thoughts of wisdom about a variety of fields all of

which were concerned with success. How successful

people act, how unsuccessful people act, and why

successful people are successful (not because of talent)

are all described in Fertig's Notes. Mackay believes

that persistence is the key to success. He gives good

advice throughout his page. For example: "the best way

to help yourself is to help others"; "We can't always be

the best...but we can always be the best we can be"; and

"People remember two things: who kicked you when you

were down, and who helped you up". Mackay goes on

to list many words of wisdom such as this. I think that

these words are profound. They are short and to the

point. Perhaps I'll see them on some inspirational

posters someday.

Message no. 338
Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:01pm
Subject secret to success

I was searching for the secrets to successful people. I

used talents of successful people as my search words on

www.google.com. I didn't encounter any problems during

my search.

The site I used was:

http://www.minorityaffairs.com/articles.htm

It was a pretty good site. It went over unlocking your

potential for success. Success is about improving the

things you do and always accepting greater challenges

in life. Attitude and persistence will lead to success.

Everyone can be successful, they just need to learn

how to acquire the traits needed to be successful.

There are 10 keys to success: 1. Ambition - Successful

people have pride, commitment, and self-discipline. 2.

Focus - Concentrate on goals and objectives, being

productive and not distracted. 3.

Motivation/accomplishment - Being proactive and

achieving results, not excuses. 4. Experience - Use

skills, talents to the fullest extent possible. Do

things because it needs to be done. 5. Opportunity -

look for opportunities and seize them. 6. Make decisions

- Think about the issues & facts, and the consider to

make a decision. 7. Accepting mistakes - Admit it, fix

it, and move on! 8. Being self-reliant - Successful

people don't let anything slow them down. 9. Sending

the right message - Successful people often cooperate

with others and are positive and out-going. They

surround themselves with supportive people who offer

support and encouragement. 10. Enthusiasm - being

excited and passionate about what you are doing.

Message no. 389[Branch from no. 338]
Saturday, February 22, 2003 7:37pm
Subject Re: secret to success

I liked your 10 secrets to sucess. I think that sucess

is just being yourself. You have to be completely

comfortable with yourself, and do exactly what you want

to do in life to be sucessful with your own goals. There

is no 'way to sucess.' I have my own problems with being

exactly who I am, and many people have the same, that is

why there are known sucessful people and then some

regulars, so to say.

Message no. 396[Branch from no. 338]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:50pm
Subject Re: secret to success

Regarding Marissa's research,

I agree with "Everybody can become successful", it just

depends on the individual. Nobody can expect to have

things come to them, they need to do it themselves. If

they have the ambition, self-discipline, and commitment,

then anything is possible. But please people (the one

who are reaching for a high goal), make sure you have

that particular talent. For example, the American Idol,

a lot of the people can't sing and with all the

practice, I don't think they'll ever sing great. But

it's hard to say, your own judgement is completely

different to others.

Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:17pm
Subject Re: secret to success

i think that success can be taught but for most it is

based on how hard the track of getting there was. I

heard a great saying that says good things take a long

time but great things happen all at once. Persistance

allows you the opportunity to become great. striving

for your goals is one thing but most people are not

dreamers and get bogged down by practical issues in

thier lives and never give themselves the opportunity to

be great.

Message no. 697[Branch from no. 338]
Friday, April 4, 2003 1:05pm
Subject Re: secret to success

There are certainly characteristics that set apart the

successful from the unsuccessful. I think the real

question is whether these characteristics are innate or

acquired from a nurturing childhood environment. My

educated guess is that it's an interaction between the

innate and environment. If this is so, it has saddening

implications for those who grow up in hurtful

environments, e.g. in a bad neighborhood with bad

parents and bad friends. Not only do these people lack

the proper education to get out of this situation, but

the skills they perhaps could have acqired to get out

simply aren't passed on to them by an authority figure.

Message no. 349
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 5:29pm
Subject The Successful

I searched google for "psychology successful people". I

was specificly searching for what separates successful

people from the rest. There were no problems.

Site #1,

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/DailyNews/forbes_psychology_021113.html

, talked about people such as Oprah Winfrey and Bill

Gates. Its findings were ambiguous. It quotes a most

interesting statement: "To understand the entrepreneur,

you first have to understand the psychology of the

juvenile delinquent." But it quotes another expert who

says there is no 'successful type' of personality. It

cites a study of entrepreneurs vs. average people which

found that there is an equal concern about finances,

finding a difference only in that entrepreneurs care

less what others think.

Site 2,

http://www.shpm.com/articles/sports/achizone.html ,

concerned sports psychology and the psychological

characteristics of successful athletes. It gives "The

Eight Mind/Body Skills for Success". They are as

follows: action focus, creative thinking, productive

analysis, keeping cool, concentration, emotional power,

energizing, and consistency. While these focus on

sporting performance, I think they're integral tools for

successful people.

What these articles tell us, just as psychology, is that

there is a complex interaction between nature and

nurture that helps set the course of our lives.

Message no. 380
Friday, February 21, 2003 1:48pm
Subject How not to be a successful college student.

The search engine I used was MSN. The search terms I

used were: How not to be successful. I had no

difficulty finding this article on how not to be a

successful college student. The web address is:

http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/1150/success.html

This article gives some important and rather common

sense steps on how not to be successful in college.

They are mainly common sense but yet many of us do these

things daily. For example, arrive late to class, make a

big disruption, never ask questions or offer answers,

ask irrelevant questions and waste class time (one I

have seen many people do!!!), never reading your text

book, and wait until the day before an exam to ask a

professor questions. These are just a few of the ways

the article discusses how to be unsuccessful. I think

this is a good article for college students to review

and double check that they are not doing any of these

steps.

Message no. 411
Monday, February 24, 2003 5:32pm
Subject success shmuccess

I used yahoo to search for information about successful

people--with or without talent. I found an interesting

article at http://www.positivepath.net/ideasCP3.asp It

says that people make basic assumptions about what it

takes to be successful but that many of said assumptions

cannot and are not universal (otherwise we'd probably

see much more success). For example, it says that

persistence just isn't enough for many people and that

it usually leads to a headache more than anything.

Also, the author states that any obtacles that a person

faces is self-made (which unfortunatly just isn't true,

but I think it's much more true than we would assume).

The article does stress being incontrol and maintaining

a high level of energy as well as making and keeping

commitments to others. I think this is especially

important because from the time we are children we are

taught that we can do anything we put our minds to,

which was depressing to discover to be untrue. The

truth is--high energy is not going to get a minority a

job necessarily, but affirmative action might. At any

rate, this is a good article and I think makes some good

points.

Message no. 652[Branch from no. 411]
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:49pm
Subject Re: success shmuccess

i think that you have a good point in saying that every

one of our mothers (more than likely) told us how

wonderful, goodlooking, smart etc we are...and how we

can do anything we put our mind to. well, thats really

quite a bunch of BS...i'm 5ft 5...i'll NEVER play for

the NBA (yes, spud webb was also around that

height...but he was an exception). likewise...i'll

never make millions as a recording artist. so i CANT do

anything i put my mind to. success is a careful mixture

of natural talent, the drive to nurture that talent into

opportunity...and the LUCK it takes to GET an

opportunity to SHOW that talent off.

if you miss somewhere in that mixture...you'll never be

successful!! (my theory...still working)

Message no. 445
Friday, February 28, 2003 7:18am
Subject what is success

Looking through google i was trying to find talents of

successful people. I had a lot of trouble finding this

site. I began to wonder what makes a successful person.

I found this site of quotes on success that i thought

was relatvant to what i was looking for.

http://www.quotegarden.com/success.html

The quotes are about success and how to achieve success.

From what i got from the quotes was that successful

people never give and learn how to live a life of being

successful. Success is all a state of mind those who

believe they can succeed do while leaving all others

with doubt behind them. For the talent of being

successful some people are just born with that drive but

anyone can learn how to be successful. Success in a

persons life works how thier self efficacy works. The

more good points about it the more successful or higher

self efficacy they have.

Message no. 482[Branch from no. 445]
Tuesday, March 4, 2003 4:46pm
Subject Re: what is success

I agree that some people are just born with the inner

motivation and drive to be successful in life. It can

also be one's nurture or environment, whether they have

supportive and motivating parents or people in their

lives. I also agree that although one may not be born

with the inner drive to be successful, one can still

have hope and learn to acquire the skills needed to be a

successful person.

Success is only determined by the person who carries it.

It's like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We all

have different definitions of what success is, but we

can all learn to be more self-efficient and optomistic

in life.

Message no. 621[Branch from no. 445]
Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:01pm
Subject Re: what is success

I was wondering what sucess is, too. Even though people

are not rich and famous, they can still think of them as

successful. Just as the quate says, "How can they say

my life is not a success? Have I not for more than

sixty years got enough to eat and escaped being eaten?"

In my opinion, you are successful when you are able to

become the way you want to be.

Message no. 478
Tuesday, March 4, 2003 12:00am
Subject the untalented

A. Today's search was about the successful but

untalented people.

B. I typed in the word phrase:

1. successful and untalented 2.

Talented and successful 3. Talent and untalented

success stories

C. There were no problems in today's searching.

Everything went smooth. However, there is a lot of

information about successful people but hardly anything

about the successful yet untalented people.

D. The search engine I used was WebCrawler

E. The address: www.amfm.org.uk/tx/tx17/hype.html

F. The author of this article discusses how real

musical talent is now being destroyed by the "cover ups"

of special effects.

The article seems rather gloomy but I think the author

has a point. Music industries, like any other, want to

make money. So maybe they'll hire someone who will make

$$$ if they have the "american idol" look rather then

someone who can truly sing. Such lacking qualities can

now be covered up with lighting, fireworks, or whatever

they do to make it seem better then it really is.

Message no. 481
Tuesday, March 4, 2003 4:42pm
Subject What makes people successful?

I used www.google.com for my search again. I find this

search engine to be very reliable. I typed in "talents

of successful people as my search words. I didn't

encounter any problems during my search. I came upon

this website:

http://www.highlandsprogram.com/success.html

In this site it goes over what makes people successful.

To be successful is to offer your skills and talents to

the betterment of your family, faith, and community, and

society. Success is like beauty, it's in the eye of the

beholder. Success means satisfaction, productivity,

self-expression, connectedness and meaning.

Successful people consistently do two things:

They use their Natural Abilities in their work;

They create a Personal Vision for their lives.

I agree with this idea.

To build a life of success, you must apply effort and

commitment. Success is something that must be discovered

over time.

Message no. 492
Thursday, March 6, 2003 9:41pm
Subject The 13 Characteristics of Successful People

I used Google searching engine. The searching terms

were „characteristics of successful people.š There was

no problem finding this interesting site.

http://www.davekahle.com/article/people.htm

The author of this site, Jeffrey J. Mayer, states that

successful people have identified the skills, talents,

and characteristics that enable them to succeed. He

suggests the 13 characteristics of successful people.

For instance: 1.Successful People Have a Dream.

2.Successful People Have Ambition. 3.Successful People

Are Strongly Motivated Toward Achievement. 4.Successful

People Take Responsibility for Their Actions.

5.Successful People Are Focused. 6.Successful People

Learn How to Get Things Done. 7.Successful People Look

for Solutions to Problems. 8.Successful People Make

Decisions. 9.Successful People Have the Courage to Admit

They‚ve Made a Mistake. 10.Successful People Are

Self-Reliant. 11.Successful People Have Specific

Knowledge, Training, and/or Skills and Talents.

12.Successful People Work with and Cooperate with Other

People. 13.Successful People Are Enthusiastic.

The author also suggests the tips to those who want to

achieve success.

Message no. 493
Thursday, March 6, 2003 11:42pm
Subject Are successful people more talented?

I wanted to find out if successful people are really

more talented than unsuccessful people? I searched

under google using the phrase, "successful people". No

problems except for A LOT of useless sites.

I found a site(www.jackfertig.com/archive-mackay.html)

that lists alot of quotes/phrases for people, I guess,

to keep in mind. The second phrase happened to be

(exactly), "Many successful people are no more talented

than unsuccessful people. The difference between them is

that successful people do those things that unsuccessful

people don't like to do. Successful people have the

determination, the will, the focus, the drive to

complete the tough jobs."

Interesting, huh? I really agree with the statement.

Message no. 522
Monday, March 10, 2003 12:33am
Subject Talents of successful people

For this specific research I was searching for anything

to do with talents of successful people. The search

terms or phrases that I used was "talents of successful

people." I did not have any problems with this search,

but I did not find a lot of information. Most of the

information and articles were similar. The search

engine that I used was yahoo. The web address of this

site is:

http://www.jackfertig.com/archive-mackay.html

In this article I found that many successful people are

no more talented than unsuccessful people. The

difference between them is that successful people do

things that unsuccessful people do not enjoy or like to

do. Another problem with unsuccessful people is that

patience and determination may be lacking.

Message no. 544[Branch from no. 522]
Friday, March 14, 2003 11:46am
Subject Re: Talents of successful people

I agree with you and the article that successful people

do not have anymore talent than unsuccessful people, and

that they do have more determination and are willing to

do what they can to acquire success. But then I thought

about it and success comes in different forms. It all

depends on the person living their own life. For

example, success for a homeless man would be to find a

meal somehow, that would equal success to him because he

was able to survive another day and without hunger

pains. In other words, I think that it is our own

perserverance or lack there of that determines how

successful we will be in life.

Message no. 552

Saturday, March 15, 2003 4:44pm
Subject Research Message: "Talents of Sucessful People"

For this week's research session I wanted to discover if

there was any truth to the claim that "many sucessful

people are no more talented than unsucessful people." I

began the search using Google and was forced to

implement six different search phrases before finally

giving up and trying another engine. The phrases

included "talents of sucessful people", "successful

people talents", "successful people vs unsuccessful

people", "talent and success", "successful people", and

lastly "articles on successful people."

Being the trooper that I am I tried another search

engine called Ask Jeeves. I typed in "Are suceessful

people more talented than unsuccessful people?" and came

up with two relevant sources. One of the sources was a

quotation from motivational speaker Harvey Mackay which

read, "the truth is that many successful people are no

more talented than unsuccessful people, the difference

between them lies in the old axiom that successful

people do the things that unsuccessful people don't like

to do." This can be found at

www.legalnews.net/living/quotes.htm The second source I

found was an article about a motivational book written

also by Harvey Mackay entitled "Pushing the Envelope".

The same quotation was cited in the article and it went

on to discuss what is needed to be successful. This can

be found at www.nysarm.org/marketing_magazinevlnum2.htm

Message no. 610
Monday, March 24, 2003 10:14pm
Subject What's the Real Secret of Successful People?

The objective of today's sesshin is to find the site

about the talent of successful people. The searching

terms are "successful-people-talent." I have no problem

in finding the following site.

http://www.positivepath.net/ideasCP3.asp "What's the

Real Secret of Successful People?" By Catherine

Palin-Brinkworth

Some motivational speakers often quote "nothing can take

the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is

more common than unsuccessful men with talent...etc."

The author of this site says, however, "persistence is

not enough" to be successful. He writes that what

really holding you back is your "Glass Cage" (the limits

or barriers that are imposed not only by others but

yourself.) Breaking through your "Glass Cage" with

self-disciplined practice is the key to achieve your

sucessful dreams.

 

Message no. 620
Thursday, March 27, 2003 7:40pm
Subject Wisdom & Life Skills

The objective of my searching sesshin was to find more

about the topic "Talents of successful people." I used

the searching terms, "wisdom of life." I has no

problem in finding the following site.

http://www.4hb.com/08index.html "Wisdom & Life Skills"

This site introduces links to various sites in relation

to wisdom and life skill.

http://www.4hb.com/08devwinningattitude.html One of the

articles is "How to Develop a Winning Attitude." The

author says, "Man's ability over all other creatures on

this Earth is the ability to think. All successful

people use this talent to improve their lives and

control their own destiny." In using your true mental

abilities, he refers to the seven triggering mechanisms

to be successful by Anthony Robbins.

Message no. 622[Branch from no. 620]
Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:09pm
Subject Re: Wisdom & Life Skills

The article "How to Develop a Winning Attitude" points

out a few important concepts that have been overlooked

by most of us who have researched this topic so far.

Knowing and evaluating your priorities is definitely

important; so is "bonding" with people. However, I know

that we can't all pinpoint the utmost important concepts

in being successful; I understand that we all have

different opinions and findings. It's good when someone

brings up "new" points. I liked the article - the

listing of Abraham Lincoln's "defeats" was good

supporting evidence for the concept of believing in

yourself.

Emiko, I was wondering how you came up with the search

term "wisdom of life"? Was that the first search term

you used or did you try several before thinking of that

particular phrase? I know that I will probably revisit

this topic again and I was hoping you could help me

gain more insight on what other search phrases to use.

(If you don't get a chance to respond to this post,

don't worry about it.)

Message no. 796[Branch from no. 622]
Friday, April 11, 2003 9:53pm
Subject Re: Wisdom & Life Skills

Hi, Michelle. I am sorry for replying to you so late.

After I was searching for the topics for a while, I came

to realize that I need the different and appropriate

searching terms to expand my search. So I tried to come

up with different kinds of searching terms.

Message no. 681[Branch from no. 620]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:19pm
Subject Re: Wisdom & Life Skills

attitude is everything in our lives. If you have found a

winning attitude you will go far. If everything was easy

no one would feel that success is that special. Those

who are successful on thier own had to pay thier dues at

one time or another in their life.

Message no. 623
Friday, March 28, 2003 11:05am
Subject Information Literacy

Information literacy is an important part to many

successful people, but of course you all came to that

conclusion from doing your research reports.

I found my website from the search engine Google:

http://www.ala.org/acrl/ilintro.html#ildef

It had a clear definition of what information literacy

was. I wonder how many of you found this site as well?

I'm guessing a lot.

Successful people need to maximize their success. In

order to do so they need to embrace that success with

open arms. Information literacy is a key ingredient, or

perhaps IS a key in its own right. Depending on the

analogy you want to use. Well anyway, keep an open

mind, look at the site if you have the time (If you are

done with your studies), and stay cool.

Message no. 627[Branch from no. 623]
Friday, March 28, 2003 12:59pm
Subject Re: Information Literacy

Hi Mark,

I came upon the exact same site for the definition of

information literacy! So, I am supposing that many

others did as well.

It's good that you pointed out the importance of

information literacy. Afterall, it does have a lot to do

with being successful; just knowing what you need, how

to find it, and how to use it will lead to an answer to

a question, the completion of a project, the rejection

of a theory, etc.

Message no. 687
Friday, April 4, 2003 12:32am
Subject success is a dream

i found this using google. i used successful people as

my search terms.

http://www.succeedinginbusiness.com/catalog/SuccessfulPeople.shtml

This article is a promo for a book about successful

people. It is basically a self help book to be a more

successful person and how to do it. Being successful is

something you have to want and think about. doing this

causes one to be motivated to become what they think and

dream about. It helps you to change your perception on

the way you look at situations. You try to mimic what

someone that is successful would do and you copy them.

It brings composure to nervous situations and helps you

to keep control of yourself.

Message no. 706
Saturday, April 5, 2003 6:04pm
Subject Success for those who stick with it

I searched in msn.com under the phrase "talents of

successful people" and was lead to the site

http://www.smithfam.com/news/dec99c.html.

This site talked about how successful people make more

mistakes because they try more things. So it doesn't

necessarily mean that successful people are more

talented, but because they are willing to work hard, be

creative and persevere. The author continues to say

that "no one achieves by quitting" which is very true.

I believe that we all have the same chances of being

successful. We just have to take those chances.

Message no. 784
Friday, April 11, 2003 11:13am
Subject Success comes in many forms

Using MSN and the phrase "talents of successful people"

I had no trouble finding an article;

http://www.signmaking.com/academy/13characteristics.html

These are the five things you‚ll find every successful

person has in common:

They have a dream. They have a plan. They have

specific knowledge or training. They‚re willing to work

hard They don‚t take no for an answer.

So, in other words, everyone has the potential to be

successful, it is their perserverance and motivation

levels that determines their success.

Also, The following is a list of the skills, talents,

and characteristics you‚ll find in successful people:

1. Successful people have a dream.

2. Successful people have ambition.

3. Successful people are strongly motivated toward

achievement.

4. Successful people are focused.

5. Successful people learn how to get things done.

6. Successful people take responsibility for their

actions.

7. Successful people look for solutions to problems.

8. Successful people make decisions.

9. Successful people have the courage to admit they‚ve

made a mistake.

10. Successful people are self-reliant.

11. Successful people have specific knowledge, training,

and/or skills and talents.

12. Successful people work with and cooperate with other

people.

13. Successful people are enthusiastic.

Message no. 890[Branch from no. 784]
Friday, April 25, 2003 11:25am
Subject Re: Success comes in many forms

6. Successful people take responsibility for their

actions.

7. Successful people look for solutions to problems.

8. Successful people make decisions.

9. Successful people have the courage to admit they‚ve

made a mistake. Hi Teruya, it's Mark.

Working on my presentation now. Oh, that's right

back to business.

Ok, so I looked over this list and found that I

have like, only a few of these qualities! And it made

me realize that I could be much more successful had I

done everything on it. So far all I have are the top

end qualities:

10. Successful people are self-reliant.

11. Successful people have specific knowledge, training,

and/or skills and talents.

12. Successful people work with and cooperate with other

people.

13. Successful people are enthusiastic.

 

I hope that one day I could say that I have all of

these qualities of success. And hopefully, that I'm

also successful as well.

Well anyway, I'll see you around, oh, back to the

book report!

--Mark

Message no. 843
Wednesday, April 16, 2003 11:45pm
Subject an interview, chat forum, and song of the unsuccessful

Today, I was looking for a different perspective of the

talented and unsuccessful to add into my bibliograpy

report.

For this search, I thought i'd try a new search engine.

So I used http://www.searchbug.com While using this

search engine I found no problems. The layout and the

designs of this search engine is easy and

understandable. I would use it again.

To find these articles, I first used the phrase

(talented people) but I found many unrelevant articles.

Using this phrase, I mostly found audtions and casting

companies for the talented. So I reworded it (talented

and unsuccessful). This phrase was much better :) I

choose 3 articles that give a differnt perspective about

the talented people.

1. The first was

http://www.psychedonline.org/Articles/Vol2Iss3/HDouglasinterview.htm

**This wepage was dedicated to Herb Douglas an olympic

bronze medalist. They conducted this interview to find

out what his opinion was or idea of what seperates the

talented athlete from a talented one but unsuccessful

one.

2.

http://www.pupiline.net/coolstuff/music/0102096251501.cfm

**The above address is a kiddy place to talk about your

ideas of famous celebrities/enternainers. The topic on

this site seems to be about Music entertainers and their

talents.

3. The last website,

http://www.daypoems.net/plainpoems/1205.html is about

song titled: Song of the unsuccessful by Richard Burton.

I quoted one section of his song: "the men

ten-talented, who still strangley missed the goal, of

them weave: it seems thy will to harrow some in soul."

I'm not soo sure what he means in his poem/song--so take

a look at it.

Message no. 873
Tuesday, April 22, 2003 1:58pm
Subject successful people

I found this article using google.com

http://www.highlandsprogram.com/research2.html

This article explains the outcomes of their research on

The Highlands Program on successful people. The

Highlands program regularly assess participants in the

following fields: Ability match,

Stress,Optimism,Internal vs. External Locus of

Control,Connection to Company, Vision, Balance,

Satisfaction Index, and Productivity Index.

Message no. 874
Tuesday, April 22, 2003 2:02pm
Subject Tips for a successful business

I found this article using Google.com

http://www.icbs.com/KB/kb_the-secret-success-principle-for-small-businesses.htm

This article gives tips for businessess to become

successful. Some of the tips that it gives are to spend

the least time on those products that gieve the least

return on sales, establish close relationships with the

best clients and spend more time with them than your

lower profit customers, and simple products reduce

complexity and require less management.

Message no. 1038
Thursday, May 8, 2003 10:19am
Subject "Ingredients" of successful people

I entered „talentš and „successš in the Google Search

Engine, but most of the results pulled up were

advertisements on modeling. I then typed

„characteristics of successful peopleš into the InfoGrid

Search Engine (www.infogrid.com) and found a couple of

useful articles.

„The 13 Characteristics of Successful Peopleš by Jeffrey

Mayer is the first article that I looked into. He gave

a list of thirteen characteristics that can be found in

successful people ( please go to

http://www.davekahle.com/article/people.htm).

None of the lists above stresses that the „innate

abilityš or „talentš is what separates successful people

from unsuccessful people, although the eleventh item on

Mayer‚s list does mention „successful people have

talentsš. From the lists, it can be concluded that

being talented is a plus, but not a must to be

successful.

It is, however, not absolutely true that successful

people are no more talented than unsuccessful people.

The emphasis is not on whether they are talented or not,

but on whether they work hard and improve on whatever

they are already good at. Many ingredients, when

combined together, create the special flavor of

successful people, but the ingredient talent is

„optionalš.

 

7. INSTANT GRATIFICATION WITHOUT PATIENCE

Message no. 98
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:46pm
Subject Instant Gratification

Sorry this is long, but I found some of the

articles interesting. I started by using the search

engine http://www.skworm.com/. I don‚t like this search

engine, though because it does not give the web address

of the articles that you click on. I found an

interesting article called „Instant Gratification Centre

Found?š You can find this article at

http://www.nature.com/nsu/010531/010531-3.html. This

article discusses the neuromechanisms involved with

instant gratification. There are actually parts of the

brain called the nucleus accumbens core (AcbC) in the

forebrain. This is because this part of the brain

controls the way an animal reacts to reward and when

damaged the animal will choose the reward now rather

than later even if the reward given later is

bigger/greater. The article also discusses drug

interactions and how they affect this part of the brain

and in turn the behavior of the animal. Behavior of

rats with this area of their brain also resembled ADHD.

I then found a website called Internet Grandfather with

a subjective article on the subject. You can find it

at:

http://www.internetgrandfather.com/archives/instant_gratification.htm.

I found this opinion very interesting because the author

talked about how the younger generation is becoming more

geared towards instant gratification. This could be

because of the economics of life now such as the ease of

using credit cards or getting other kinds of loans.

People no longer have to work hard and wait for what

they want, they can get it now and work for it later.

The way our society has evolved also makes it hard for

people to make long-term plans. We are constantly

bombarded with advertising which tries to make us feel

as though we need the satisfaction now. As a younger

generation, we are also accustomed to a fast pace life

and instant information with the ease of internet. The

author then talks about the losses from instant

gratification. A person does not get the same internal

feeling of accomplishment. In the article

„Instant Gratificationš by Martin Lindstrom, which you

can find at

http://www.linuxtoday.com.au/r/article/jsp/sid/11471,

the issue is put into an economic perspective due to

more recent events. This article suggests that teens

will be more likely to behave in this way because of

recent tragedies in the world and that we may not have

long in life, so we need to take advantage of it now.

It also discusses how this consumer attitude may be

leading to companies offering incentives on much more

short-term basis. Or is it that these incentives

offered by companies produce this behavior in people?

Message no. 116[Branch from no. 98]
Friday, January 31, 2003 2:25pm
Subject Re: Instant Gratification

This is a reply to Velvet Voelz research on Instant

Gratification.

That is interesting that gratification delay is based on

a chemical in the brain. I agree that people today

demand for instant gratification because of how today's

technology and economy makes it so easy to get

everything instantly. You don't need to go to the store

anymore; sometimes it's just a click away.

I also agree that the market advertises that it is easy

and fast to get. Most advertisements advertise that

their product is something you need to get "right away"

or for the customer to "don't wait and act now". With

all that is available to us today, we don't have to wait

for something to come to us.

Message no. 134
Sunday, February 2, 2003 9:23pm
Subject A generation without patience

I found this article "Instant Gratification versus

Resilience in Children"

http://abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s599369.htm

. I found this site using the search engine

searchbug.com.

This article explains how western childern of this

generation are being influenced by major cultural

changes. A lot of emphasis is being placed on

individual wealth and pleasure rather than the

collective good. The excessive love and indulging in

one's personal wants. Many children grow up in

situations where instant gratification is the norm.

Whatever they want they get. These children do not have

to earn it and begin to expect that what they want will

always be given to them. These methods of parenting are

being questioned with a great deal of evidence of the

high rate of mental health problems in young people, and

the very troubling youth suicide rate.

When children experience more challenges toward

attaining something that they want it teaches them to

improvise, to wait, or to work for what they want rather

than just sticking their hands out to their parents. As

a result when they get what they want it makes their

goal more valued and appreciated.

Message no. 203[Branch from no. 134]
Friday, February 7, 2003 9:51am
Subject Re: A generation without patience

this was a good article you found. Perhaps this idea of

self over others is why the divorce rate is so high in

our country. People never learned how to earn or wait

for something and when they do get it after they are

done with it they throw it aside and find something new

to play with. I think that parenting has a huge impact

in this with parents giving their kids everything with

out them earning it or being patient for it.

Message no. 384[Branch from no. 203]
Friday, February 21, 2003 7:58pm
Subject Re: A generation without patience

I agree with ShaneN that instant gratification for yong

children is definitely detrimental to them. They learn

to expect instant rewards for work done. This is not

beneficial to children, as they need to learn more

difficult lessons of hard work and perseverance. These

kids will never learn about patience and waiting for

rewards of long term goals. For example, in school

final grades may come months after much hard work and

effort. However, the satisfaction of attaining long

term goals is much greater than short term instant

gratification. As a high school baseball coach, I am

trying to teach the fact that hard work is rewarded.

However, they must learn patience and perseverance in

order to reach these rewards.

Message no. 212[Branch from no. 134]
Friday, February 7, 2003 1:07pm
Subject Re: A generation without patience

That was a great website. It's important to look at how

instant gratification affects children. A parent who

gives their child a toy they are whining for is

encouraging instant gratification, not just stopping

their screaming. By buying that toy, instead of saying

no and dealing with complaining, they are telling their

child that it is okay to demand whatever they want

whenever they want. They are also setting an example of

making wrong choices in order to avoid inconvenience.

I was raised by the ideology that part of being a kid is

not getting what you want, a lot! "Pigs don't get

nothing," was my dad's favorite saying, which came from

his parents, so whenever I ever asked too often for a

toy he would say that and I stopped. Of course I didn't

like it, but that's part of being a child. The current

generation of parents need to look at what their actions

are teaching children. Parents may feel ineffective

against their child's "gimme gimmies", but they still

have the power of "no" and they can still teach their

children patience.

Message no. 243[Branch from no. 134]
Tuesday, February 11, 2003 12:50am
Subject Re: A generation without patience

This topic really hit home with me because I see it all

the time with my five year old nephew. The reason behind

his expectations to recieve what he wants is ultimately

a parenting issue. Stemming from this parenting flaw are

two factors that I think weigh heavily upon his

development into a spoiled brat. Representing the most

recent link in a long chain of instant gratifiers is my

beloved nephew. One only need witness his mother's

parenting skills for two hours to aptly trace the origin

of his spoiledness. By this I mean that if parents were

brought up a certain way then most likely their children

will inherit the same traits. I think his parents

divorce has a lot to do with his demeanor also. He's

still too young to truely understand the meaning of

divorce but kids aren't stupid. It doesn't take long

before they learn to manipulate divorced parents into

getting what they want. Parents will at times compete

for "favorite parent status" by buying their child's

happiness. I think this produces children who expect too

much and earn too little.

Message no. 161
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 6:10pm
Subject Tools for personal growth

Using www.google.com, I pursued the subject instant

gratification without patience and had a great deal of

difficulty finding useful imformation. Firstly, rather

than recognizing the negative aspect of the subject,

most of the links I found were helping consumers achieve

instant gratification. Anyways, I changed my keywords

to "immediate gratification" and impatience and had only

slightly better luck at

www.coping.org/growth/patient.htm This website had tons

of "Tools for personal growth," including having

patience. The patience portion discussed the negative

consequences of impatience, as well as ways to respond

to others' impatience. The most useful aspect I think

is the different behavior traits offered that are needed

to develop patience. Any website can talk about the

negative, but it's the options for positively problem

solving that really make the difference.

Message no. 485[Branch from no. 161]
Thursday, March 6, 2003 1:37pm
Subject Re: Tools for personal growth

Perhaps one of the reasons that it was dificult to

find information on this subject is that we, as humans,

are always looking for instant gratification. We are

naturally impatient and pleasure-seeking. Thus, there

is a better market for the topic of instant gratifiatin

that really works thatn finding pages on the subject of

instant gratification without patience as a study or

report.

Message no. 164
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 6:35pm
Subject posting on instant gratification

It's true that our generation is more impatient then

ever. Our generation wants instant gratification and

they don't want to wait for it! No one wants to stand

in line anymore and no one wants to write a letter when

you could send an e-mail and get a reply that same day.

I went to this

website:http://vivisimo.com/search?query=instant+gratification&v%3Asources=AltaVista%2CMSN%2CNetscape%2CLycos%2CLooksmart%2CFindWhat.

It talks about how people now days want instant

gratification because of how things are changing now a

days. How the internet gets us what we want instantly,

how young people are getting successful. It's an

interesting article.

Message no. 188[Branch from no. 164]
Thursday, February 6, 2003 2:17pm
Subject Re: posting on instant gratification

I totally agree with you that our generation is an

impatient one. I was unable to open up the link that you

posted, however I realized how true it is that hardly

anyone sends letters through "snail mail" anymore

because of more convenient and faster methods such as

email. I feel that although we are becomming more

technically advanced, we are drifting further from each

other, and our daily lives have become less personal in

a sense that it is easier to keep in touch with someone

through the internet or even on the phone rather than

taking the time to actually go and visit them in person.

Message no. 165
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 6:38pm
Subject response to a generation without patience

I agree that western children are the most effected by

instant gratification. We don't have to wait for it at

x-mas anymore, if your lucky your parents will buy it

for you after a lot of nagging or, you can just save

your allowance. America is a bunch of impatient

people...just look at our traffic problem and the road

rage that's come out of it!

Message no. 196
Thursday, February 6, 2003 9:53pm
Subject We encourage instant gratification

We live in a society that rewards instant gratification

more than patience. People may value patience and still

consider it a virtue, but I found an incredible amount

of information in my search that proved to me that

instant gratification is blatantly encouraged more.

People engage in compulsive and excessive behavior

everyday that stems from their pursuit of instant

gratification because they can no longer act patient;

they want what they want, when they want it. As we

engage in instant gratification more, it absorbs us

until we can no longer function unless our needs are met

instantaneously.

http://www.kstatecollegian.com/issues/v101/sp/n087/opinion/opn.getz.2.3.html

This is a web site I found while searching Google with

the key words, „overwhelming instant gratification.š I

supports what I have stated above, and takes it a step

further. Page Getz, a sophomore at Kansas State

University, speaks out against the quick-fix mentality

of our modern society. It is resulting in a cultural

suicide and many people are now committing themselves to

death by excess.

When a child engages in instant gratification, we call

it a bad habit. When it develops further, we call it an

addiction or obsession. There are pockets of society

that encourage every type of addiction, from caffeine

and aerobics to sex and drugs. There is a 12 Step

program out there for anyone who can handle a few months

or more of abstinence from their addiction. These

programs, while attempting to cure the problem of

instant gratification, encourage it by making addictions

that were formerly taboo into popular and socially

acceptable issues because they now have „cures.š

Instant gratification has become an ongoing cycle that

encourages itself. Even so, a little resistance to

those „quick-fixesš may be enough to maintain the last

remnants of patience in our society.

Message no. 202
Friday, February 7, 2003 9:50am
Subject patience is a virtue

I did a search on Yahoo, using the terms "instant,

gratification, and patience." At first I had only typed

in "instant gratification" and got a list of

non-relevant sites so I decided to narrow it down and

add "patience." I wanted to gain a little insight as to

why our society is so stuck on instant gratification and

possible ways in which it can be lessened. I found one

site that sparked some interest in me.

http://www.keithellis.com/bootstraps1.2.html

In this article Keith Ellis defines patience as the

"ability to wait for an outcome, instead of insisting on

having that outcome at once." Sadly many of us lack this

ability, thus causing us to be geared more toward

instant results. He speaks of how patience is a virtue

and I agree with that. A really good friend of mine told

me that good things come to those who wait, and that if

we always got what we wanted when we wanted, then it

wouldn't be as well worth it or gratifying. If you have

to work hard and strive for something that you really

want, then the outcome will be that much more satisfying

than having it handed to you. Anyways, Ellis states that

patience is a skill and in order to be mastered, it must

be put into practice. He suggested that the next time

you are faced with a situation where you must wait, you

should think of it as an opportunity to practice this

life long skill. That is something I definitely need to

work on myself.

Message no. 264[Branch from no. 202]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:34pm
Subject Re: patience is a virtue

In response to Deni on instant gratification........

 

I agree that it takes practice to become patient. I

think taking care of children is an excellent way of

practicing being patient. They're in their own world of

"me, me,me!" So you can't allow yourself to add on to

the problem of getting your way right, right away. Kids

are jsut kids, you can't expect them to obey everything

you want them to do. It has to be about their needs and

trying not to be frustrated at their tantrums.

Another way, to practice patience could be when your at

the mall and you just got paid. Our impulses tell us to

get what we like right away and not think if we really

need it or if we just want to buy it because we can.

Impulse buyers end up regretting their decisions.

Sometimes, they're lucky because they can return

whatever they bought, but someimes you can't be so

lucky.

Message no. 222
Friday, February 7, 2003 9:54pm
Subject parenting and instant gratification

I got a lot of articles on parenting with this one,

maybe it was how I did the search, but that's all I came

up with. In the articles, for the most part the thrust

of the message was that giving in to a child's demands

or arguing with a child will promote the sort of

behaviour that allows for not but instant gratification.

http://www.lifeseminars.com/askalison/9804.asp is an

example. I'm not sure about the age ranges involved, but

at some point I think you need to be able to have a

rational discussion with a child about wants/needs but

this is not something I found in the search. For the

most part it seems as though the consensus is that even

discussing it will lead to unfortunate results. I didn't

find much on this topic with regard to adults, nor that

suggest instant gratification is a good thing.

Message no. 254
Wednesday, February 12, 2003 7:29pm
Subject Re: Instant gratification

I looked for "instant gratification" on www.yahoo.com in

hopes to find why we all are in need of instant

gratification. I didn't really have any problems.

I found two articles. The first one

article(www.nature.com/010531/010531-3.html) talked

about instant gratification being a impulsive behavior.

It talked about a rat study (one with thier accumbens

lesioned, which is the cause for our instant

gratification, and the other rat had another part of the

brain lesioned). The study was, which rat would bar

press immediately for a small food and which would wait

a while for a larger one. The lesioned to the accumbens

kept pressing immediately and the other waited.

The other article by Greg Bruns

(www.identitytheory.com/insight/bruns2.html) just talked

about how he constantly needed instant gratification.

It was pretty funny.

EVERYBODY NEEDS INSTANT GRATIFICATION, ADMIT IT!

 

Message no. 289
Friday, February 14, 2003 2:31pm
Subject Patience pays off

I found this site using Google.com. I just typed in

gratification, and patience. There were a lot of good

sites that came up. I found this site (

http://www.wcg.org/lit/booklets/money/patience.htm )

The author explains about how easy it is to get what you

want because the ease of credit cards. It explains the

benefits of delaying gratifications by showing a chart

displaying how much money one can save over a period of

2 years. The author also goes on to say that those who

use credit cards buy about 30% more than people who pay

with cash. Which is an indication of compulsive buying.

Message no. 398[Branch from no. 289]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:58pm
Subject Re: Patience pays off

The credit card has shown how much as a society we

believe in the notion of instant gradification. Our

whole society from fast food to express shopping lanes

show how our country tells us that you can get whatever

you want at anytime. With credit card companies just

giving away cards to anyone it makes the problems even

worse. Teens do not understand what a credit card

means. they think in means free money and when that bill

comes they cant pay it and are stuck in debt for a long

time.

Message no. 505[Branch from no. 289]
Friday, March 7, 2003 2:44pm
Subject Re: Patience pays off

I warn everyone, especially freshmen in college, not to

get a credit card! Being able to purchase anything you

want without having to hand out the cash right then and

there was definitely gratification for a shop a holic

like me! I think society encourages us to always buy,

buy, buy and if we don't have the money charge, charge,

charge! And if you have no credit or bad credit, don't

worry someone will make sure you get credit with a high

APR rate so that you will be paying off the interest for

5 to 10 years. Sounds more like a prison sentence.

There should really be a class in high school that

teach, no warns against the use of credit cards.

Getting anything you want can be very addicting and when

your credit limit keeps going up it seems like there is

nothing you can't have. Unfortunately when you grow up

and grow wise to what APR really means you suffer the

consequences. This is obliviously a problem in Americas

or we would not have so many debt consolidators or

people filing for bankruptcy.

Message no. 306
Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:40am
Subject Response to Vvoelz's "Instant Gratification"

We are the generation of instant gratification. It

was interesting that the chemicals in our brain are

moving towards more worth in a smaller more immediate

reward. Maybe, when our parents generation were doing

all their acid in the 70's it made our brains evolve

into being more receptive to instant gratification.

Credit Cards are a real good example of how society

shapes our reward. Personally, I love credit cards,

might as well use them now when I no more money, than I

can pay it off when I get my degree and plenty money.

Message no. 339
Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:17pm
Subject Don't need it now, but I want it!!

I was curious as to how our culture is affected by

our collective need for instant gratification as opposed

to a usual larger postponed reward. With more

experience in searching the terms that I use to find my

information are becomming more refined and result in

better hits. For this search I used,

"instant+gratification+culture." I searched in Google

and AOL (which is powered by Google, giving the same

results). I also tried Altavista, but I think that is a

poor search engine.

While searching Google, the very first hit was an

article about Viagra written by Professor Russell Gough

at

http://www.geocities.com/~professorgough/colarc/s05-17-98.htm.

His article was not bashing on Viagra itself, but on

the tendencies that this drug will further solidify in

people. According to the professor, our society has

evolved from the instant gratification of things like

the drive-through, to a click-of-a-mouse culture. This

expectancy for instant gratification has blurred the

lines between "I really need it," and "I really want

it."

Another really good article was found within AOL

and was titled, "Instant Gratification versus Resilience

in Children,"

http://abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/

s599369.htm. Our society has moved from a collective

community to a self-realization community; where

individual weath and pleasure is of more importance than

the prosperity of the whole.

Research into this topic started in the 1970's with

psychologist Walter Mischel. He did studies with

children to see their behavior when they were confronted

with a small immediat reward or a large postponed

reward. The child's resilience towards instant

gratification has been found to be a predictor of

psychosocial health. While poor resilience is a marker

for future psychosocial difficulties.

Message no. 661[Branch from no. 339]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 1:44am
Subject Re: Don't need it now, but I want it!!

I find it interesting that you chose to add the search

term "culture" in your browsing. This is actually a very

good idea, as I think that instant gratification can be

very much a part of one culture yet completely absent in

another. The stratification between "I need it" and "I

want it" is also good to mention, it is quite difficult

to discern in our present society between actual needs

and wants.

Message no. 347
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:17pm
Subject Culture of Instant Gratification

The specific aspect I was looking for was the

proliferation of the instant gratification principle in

our society. I searched google with the words Dr. James

was so nice to underline: "culture of instant

gratification". There were no problems; in fact, I was

surprised by how helpful my results were.

The first site I found was

http://www.geocities.com/~professorgough/colarc/05-17-98.htm

This article was about, of all things, Viagra. It

correctly commented that Viagra is mostly used by people

who don't really need it, because it is a quick fix and

is putting unneeded chemicals into our bodies for

instant sexual gratification -- damned the consequences.

Site #2 was

http://www.identitytheory.com/insight/bruns2.html , a

hilarious article recounting one man's life of instant

rewards, once again consequences be damned. He talks

about how he can't resist finishing a pint of ice cream

or 6pack of beer all at once because it feels good to do

so.

Finally, site 3 was

http://abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s599369.htm

It states that there are 3 reasons why Western society

is becoming increasingly geared toward instant

gratification. The first is "the high value placed on

individualism...that is, individual wealth and pleasure

rather than collective or community good". The second is

"excessive love and pampering of one‚s self". The third

is that people are richer than ever before. What this

amounts to is self-centered people, starting at

childhood, demanding they get what they want right away

and having the means to have that demand fulfilled.

What it amounts to is a vicious cycle

Message no. 403
Sunday, February 23, 2003 8:31pm
Subject Now or Later?

I searched for articles about instant gratification

without patience. I actually had no trouble with the

search. I found two articles that looked at instant

gratification and patience differently.

The first article I found was by using:

http://www.infogrid.com with the phrase:instant

gratification without patience.

http://www.aksworld.com/FreeReports/Patience.htm This

article states that patience isn't just sitting around

and waiting for things to happen, but to not give up and

work as hard and long as necessary to reach your

destination. It also says that with patience we can

ignore minor irritations and be prepared to endure major

ones. While people with no patience will fall in the

face of trouble.

The second article I found was by using the same

search engine and phrase.

http://australia.internet.com/r/article/jsp/sid/11471

This article is about instant gratification being the

key to marketing. It says that we live in an age where

we are so used to getting what we want instantly. It

says that after the September 11th tragedy, consumers

are more geared towards receiving something immediately,

than patiently waiting for it.

These articles show that patience is a virtue we need to

acquire, but instant gratification is what most people

want. Yes, getting something mmediately is great, but

we should be patient and work hard for it so we will be

more greatful for what we receive.

Message no. 451[Branch from no. 403]
Friday, February 28, 2003 4:03pm
Subject Re: Now or Later?

That marketing article reminds me of seeing a trend with

products such as those noodles that you can bake and not

boil and more recently I saw chocolate chip cookies that

you can just microwave...i mean how ridiculous is that?

People don't have at least 30 mins to bake cookies so we

should just nuke it. Personally, i don't like being

impatient because I noticed that it would irritate me

even more if something wasn't fast enough. Now...i've

learn to deal with whatever and I feel way better than

being sour about time constraints.

Message no. 629[Branch from no. 403]
Friday, March 28, 2003 4:08pm
Subject Re: Now or Later?

I definitely agree with you when you say that when we

work hard for something, we are more grateful for what

we receive. But sometimes I can be such an impatient

person. For instance, I cannot wait to be done with

school so that I can move off of this stinkin island and

actually start living my life. I feel that school is

just getting in the way of me wanting to do certain

things. But I know that in the long run, it will all be

worth it and I will be thankful that I accomplished

something that I dreaded doing in the first place.

Message no. 418
Wednesday, February 26, 2003 6:45pm
Subject Research message: "I want it and I want it now"

For this week's search I wanted to find any basis for

the statement that "we live in a culture of instant

gratification". I once again went with Google.com as my

search engine and chose "culture of instant

gratification" as my search phrase. What I found was a

lot of articles that merely used the term instant

gratification but hardly any that gave something

substantial. I did finally find an article entitled

"Instant Gratification versus Resilience in Children"

that gave me some meat to bite into. The article went

into western trends in parenting that harvests children

and future adults that are used to having things their

way and used to getting them "instantly". This article

can be found at

abc.met.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s599369.htm

Message no. 446
Friday, February 28, 2003 11:52am
Subject Why We Need Instant Gratification

I looked in msn.com under the phrase "instant

gratification", but got a lot of junk. It gave many

sites on how to get instant gratification through fast

searching webs, instant this and instant that. I then

used the phrase "society of instant gratification" and

found something that talked more about how our society

lives in an instant gratification belief. That's more

of what I'm looking for.

This paper talked about how we live in an instant

gratification society now because of the lack of

predictability in this world. We are not certain of

what is going to happen in the future, so we want

rewards now. For an example, with the high numbers of

employers ready to lay workers off, people can't wait

for rewards. If they wait and get laid off, they will

never receive any rewards. Our society makes us

impatient for rewards because we need security now.

Message no. 484[Branch from no. 446]
Wednesday, March 5, 2003 9:36pm
Subject Re: Why We Need Instant Gratification

Regarding Ly's search:

Hey, it's so true that we live in a instant

gratification society, but why is that? Well,

hmmmmm.......WE ARE ALL SELFISH! We want so much things

for ourselves, but we don't want to wait. We want it

all now. So what do we do? Some quit school to take a

low paying full-time job (because they think of the

money), some take the first thing that comes without

looking towards the future(whether it's classes or

jobs), and we don't want to wait for a cheaper model of

a particular item (we want the ones that are the "real"

ones--ex. mini disks or Mp3s).

There's so much things in this world, but we all can't

help it. We all, in some way want instant gratification.

Message no. 477
Monday, March 3, 2003 11:26pm
Subject how pushy are we?

A. Today's search was on information about instant

gratification. To be more specific: Is America really

an instant gratification society?

B. I used the search engine WebCrawler. This is a

really good website because it searches Google,

AksJeeves, and other search engines. So it saves a lot

of time!! The search phrase I used was: instant

gratification and patience.

C. The website:

www.cyc-net.org/cyc-online/cycol-1099-instant.html

D. This website is titled "How pushy and impatient are

we with pushy and impatient kids?"

This article was published for childcare workers and

others who deal mostly with deprieved children. The

author wanted people to be more aware of what they are

saying to impatient children and what they are expecting

from them.

The author says, "But there are worse ways in which we

child care workers often seek instant gratification. It

is when we expect performane and compliance from a

youngster who has never had the chance to learn how."

For instance, a kindergardener teacher has no right to

expect a pupil to count 1-100 if they were never taught.

The article even tries to explain the "context" of the

kids from a survival instinct perspective. At first

this idea was hard to grasp but if you look at it from a

physiological perspective it will make more sense. I

guess from one perspective it's hard to compare us to

wild animals. But then again, I think we are worse then

them.

Message no. 479[Branch from no. 477]
Tuesday, March 4, 2003 6:49am
Subject Re: how pushy are we?

This is in response to Alicia Yamamoto's post on Instant

Gratification. I agree that child care workers often

expect performance and compliance from a youngster who

has never had the chance to learn how.

When I was about 9 or 10 my parents sent me to summer

fun along with all my friends. We were just like any

other bunch of little kids, running around yelling and

screaming for apparent reason. But we thought it was

pretty fun to do at that time. Unfortunately one of the

group leaders would expect that if she would yell and

scream at us, like a drill sargent, we would quietly

obey. But we didn't know why we had to be so quiet when

everybody else was just doing there own thing. She

didn't explain to us that it was not proper to make so

much noise. We all thought that she was just picking on

us, so we started yelling even louder, until she ran

away crying.

I don't think that yelling at a kid is the best way to

make them stop doing something. To some it may seem

like an easy and quick solution but sometimes the kids

may just strike back and make you regret trying to

belittle them. Although it takes a bit more time,

sitting with the child and discussing the problem seems

to be the best solution because it lets them know why

they should not continue the undesirable action.

Message no. 486
Thursday, March 6, 2003 2:05pm
Subject short term gains

I decided to research the growing problem of people

expecting instant gratification without patience for

long term rewards. I used the search engine at msn.com.

I used the search phrase "instant gratification

impatience" and quickly found a good site called the

"Internet Grandfather". This site had an archive of

words of wisdom and articles of how to help yourself:

http://www.internetgrandfather.com/archves/instant_gratification.htm

The author talks about how it was early in his life

when people did not expect as much out of life and were

satisfied with modest earnings. Nowdays, he writes,

young people can see successes of others who are the

same age through increased technology available.

However, seeking instant gratification usually leads to

disappointment and bad feelings. The author's advice is

simple "Don't expect instant gratification, plan for the

long-term and be pleasantly surprised and grateful if

things are better than you expect". I agree that

seeking instant gratification without patience is an

easy way to be disappointed. however, it is difficult

for young people not to be tempted to look for the quick

buck.

Message no. 489[Branch from no. 486]
Thursday, March 6, 2003 8:33pm
Subject Re: short term gains

You found a good, refreshing article. I think it is

important that we think of long-term goals and start

preparing for them early on. It would be better for

society to somehow go back to the earlier days where

people expected rewards after working hard for them,

not just receiving instant gratification. All the

planning, sacrifice, and work put into those long-term

goals taught them patience and the reward of being

motivated all along in order to reach those goals.

I understand how enticing it is to want instant

gratification. So many people want, want, want now that

they don't think about the future. Being more aware of

our culture of instant gratification, I'm quite thankful

that my job forced us part-time teachers to start

saving money for retirement through the deferred

compensation program. Had it not been done

automatically, I would have had a hard time starting the

process of saving for the future.

Message no. 963[Branch from no. 486]
Sunday, May 4, 2003 10:08pm
Subject Re: short term gains

Reply to Sean's message: SHORT TERM GAINS

Sometimes I find our society wanting and expecting

instant gratification. It seems that we learn these

ideas with advance technologies, media, fast food

resturants, and teachers and parents. They or we all

demand something from them. But I can't blame them. I

get irrated when my computer takes 10 seconds to load or

when I have to wait in the drive through for 5 mins.

There was one thing that I didn't really agree with:

that instant gratification can usually lead to

disappointment and bad feelings. First of all,

disapointment from wanting something done fast? I don't

think so. I'm not the type of person who gets

dissapointed very easily so I don't think somethings so

simple could cause dissapointment. But I guess it

depends on the situation.

Message no. 491
Thursday, March 6, 2003 9:01pm
Subject Patience is a lesson

At first, I used Google.com to search for articles that

correlated patience with success. I used search phrases

such as "patience and success" and "patience is the key

to success." There was a good deal of information. I

can't say that I had trouble finding articles; I was

just looking for particular ones that I could use for

my Bibliography Report. I used the phrase "patience,

success, instant gratification, in Webcrawler.com, but

only utilized 1 of the 70+ search results. Webcrawler

seemed to condense the list of results moreso than

Google so I didn't have to sift through a lot of

meaningless articles.

1) http://www.pyramidtlc.org/chapt10.htm Anyhow, this is

the article I got through Webcrawler. I liked it in

that it stated that we are not born with patience,

rather, we learn to develop it. It provides a number of

situations in which we get impatient.

2) http://www.work-at-home-index.net/article848.html

This article titled "Patience, The Missing Ingredient To

Success," lists some things to do while waiting for

your success to happen. They include not comparing

yourself to others and encouraging yourself everyday. In

essence, it's about things taking time.

3) http://www.innerself.com/Reflections/patience.htm The

author, Marie Russell, says that we have probably

resisted patience because the definition of the word

itself is related to suffering. Patience is part of

life's lessons, which we must whole-heartedly accept

and put into practice.

Message no. 666[Branch from no. 491]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 6:19pm
Subject Re: Patience is a lesson

I agree that we are not born with patience. Patience is

a virtue that we must learn. Patience is indeed

sometimes the "missing ingredient to success". We must

accept that in order to achieve success, one must be

patient. Fortunately we can learn how to be patient

through practice in everyday encounters.

We should learn to enjoy every minute of our lives.

Patience can teach one to be humble and learn to value

things in life. People can learn to "Stop and smell the

roses". "Everything happens for a purpose, and if we

stop long enough to find out what that purpose is, it

will enhance our path and prepare us for the next

lesson."

Message no. 511
Sunday, March 9, 2003 1:20pm
Subject instant gratification posting

I went to this website that talked about instant

gratification. It said that impatience is just another

term for instant gratification. The website also talks

about how when we're waiting for something we shouldn't

think about it was waiting...we should think of it as

practice. I agree with this site that people of todays

are very impatient. Especially in today's society were

everything is instant like cable internet access.

Message no. 512
Sunday, March 9, 2003 1:35pm
Subject response to message 202

Yes, I definitely believe that we all must master

patience and it is something that we can only achieve if

we practice at it. I couldn't believe that you got some

sensible advice from Ellis though. Have you ever read

his books? Their awful!

Message no. 539
Friday, March 14, 2003 3:13am
Subject Patience and instant gratification

I used MSN as the search engine and the phrase "instant

gratification without patience" and had no trouble

finding a couple articles.

The first article is called "Instant gratification"

http://australia.internet.com/r/article/jsp/sid/11471

This article explains that the 2001 catastrophe will

probably change the behaviors of children today because

of what they have witnessed. "Having witnessed

startlingly sudden loss of life on a massive scale, this

generation will start to question the point of planning,

anticipating, and developing long-term goals. They'll

question the virtue of patience and simply want instant

gratification." And this article futher states that

instant gratification has been a major part of our

culture via email, video games, airline miles, etc..

Another article I found was called "Patience the fruit

of the spirit" from the Lutherans for life organization.

http://www.lutheransforlife.org/living/1999/winter/patience_a_fruit_of_spirit.htm

This article mainly has to do with how Jesus had

patience and we all should follow. And that acts of

impatience such as abortion, assisted suicide, or

premarital sex pretty much goes against the christian

way of life.

Message no. 569
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:13am
Subject Instant gratification

A. Today's search was on instant gratification. I was

looking for more articles to insert into my revised

bibliography report--anything to help support or refute

the claim.

B. The search terms used was: instant gratification

C. I found no problems while I was searching for the

new information.

D. The search engine used was www.WebCrawler.com

E. The web address:

www.clickz.com/brand/brand_mkt/article.php/949881

F. The web address above helps support my claim that

instant gratification is part of American everyday life.

In this article, the author states that we are presently

in an instant gratification culture. His evidence is

that after September 11, 2001 lots of established icons,

companies, and brands consequently folded.

Another interesting point the author makes is how people

reacted to seeing such castrophies. He believes that

those kind of results leads to the questioning of

oneself in the world. One example, kids and others may

question the point of planning or developing long terms

goals. Instead they will focus on the instant

gratification.

Message no. 587
Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:15pm
Subject instant gratification is our culture

i used the google search engine and i typed in "culture

of instant gratification." I got many results but I

decided to share this one.

http://abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s599369.htm

This site talked about how we are said to be a culture

of instant gratification because we, as a society are

consumers more so than we are citizens. And as such,

when we want something, we want it now. Ask yourself

this question, you know it is true. The main reason

for this situation occuring is that we, as a culture are

at a point where the easier something is to do, the

better. And why not think this way? Life doesn't have

to be all hard or demanding. But, in accomplishing this

we have left ourselves in a position where if anything

happens at a rate not to our liking, we can't take it.

There is no easy way out of this situation, because our

culture as a whole embraces this concept. "Fast Food."

Is there any better example. I'm sure that you've been

in the drive through line before and they kept you

wating for five or six minutes. How did you feel? Mad,

i'm sure, because your fast food was really only

semi-fast food. you know.

Message no. 606[Branch from no. 587]
Sunday, March 23, 2003 7:49pm
Subject Re: instant gratification is our culture

I liked the article you found. Yes, America is a

society where we need what we want when we want it.

Reading your summary made me realize how impatient we

are because we are so used to getting things at the very

instant we decide on something. I do think a lot of

Americans are so used to fast service that when we don't

get immediate results we get irritated. Patience builds

character, and that indeed is a needed characteristic in

our society today.

Message no. 611
Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:07pm
Subject Instant gratification

I found this article using searchbug.com. I did not

have any difficulties finding this article.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/b/page/pressbox/0,1328,6108423,00.html

This article explains about the tremendous pressure that

college football coaches are facing. Five-year

contracts are being cut down to three-year if the

administration does not see any results. "There have

been 54 coaching changes since the end of the 2000

season...No progress. No job." That is pretty harsh.

No wonder why so many of the college football players

use steriods.

Message no. 630
Friday, March 28, 2003 4:25pm
Subject delayed gratification

Using yahoo, I decided to do a search on the words

"delayed + gratification + patience." I had no problems

with this task. The article that I used can be found

here:

http://religionworld.org/dd/archiv11/3502.htm

This article claims that although the media portrays us

to be impatient Americans, that is not actually the

case. The author writes that people do in fact have the

brains to know that important things take time.

He also states that children who are taught to delay

gratification, have a better chance at growing up to be

balanced adults who are willing to invest time and

energy into long-term goals. These children are not

easily discouraged by setbacks and are willing to take

on a problem again and again until they have succeeded.

Message no. 664
Thursday, April 3, 2003 4:07am
Subject Lets delay gratification, please

I am searching for info on instant gratification and its

place in our society. I used Google to search for

"instant gratification" and was primarily rewarded with

news and offers of various products and services that

proclaim to undoubtedly satiate my thirst for instant

gratification, and very few articles that actually

discussed the concept. I ended up sifting through over a

hundred results just to get two productive ones.

http://www.katsuey.com/search_article2.htm This was one

of the very few productive results, it discussed the

effects of instant gratification in the realm of the

Internet.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ockham/stories/s599369.htm

This is actually a transcription of a broadcast by Robyn

Williams, who discusses the effect of instant

gratification on child-rearing.

Instant gratification in regards to the Internet is

probably directly or indirectly responible for the loss

of millions of dollars spent towards unsuccessful

internet companies, for website design, search engine

fees, ect. Many people spent their time and

money(usually more money than time) to setup an internet

company to reap profits quickly and easily, or so they

think. Very few are instantyl gratified with web traffic

or customers, and go kaput. Instant gratification in

child rearing shows that when Children in studies were

put in a position where they could choose between a

small reward available immediately, or wait longer for a

longer one, the majority of the children forsook the

larger reward to instantly gratify themselves, but some

attempted to busy themselves so they could wait for the

larger one. "Delay of gratification" is a concept that

would help to prevent child development problems such as

poor learning of social skills, little understanding of

appreciation, and a sense of omnipotence.

Message no. 667
Thursday, April 3, 2003 6:27pm
Subject The missing ingredient to success

In this search, I typed instant gratification and

instant gratification without patience as my search

words on www.google.com. I didn't encounter any

problems during my search.

I came across this website:

http://www.work-at-home-index.net/article848.html

"If you were to bake a cake from scratch, you wouldn't

expect to mix all the ingredients together, put the cake

in the oven and 30 seconds later take it out and presto,

it is done. It takes time."

Anything you do in life is going to take time. In the

article it states that success will happen, and it's

just delayed. It's delayed because it's just waiting

for the right moment.

How do you remain patient while waiting for success?

1)Keep being persistent and consistent utilizing all

ingredients to your success. 2)Don't compare yourself

with others 3)Set a long-term goal and set short-term

goals that you accomplish quickly and easily. This will

keep you motivated. 4)Visualize your success 5)Speak

words of encouragement to yourself daily 6)And remember

the Words of God: "But let patience have its perfect

work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking

nothing." (James 1:4 NKJV)

Message no. 727
Sunday, April 6, 2003 2:18pm
Subject how we work...

i found this neat article:

http://www.nature.com/nsu/010531/010531-3.html

it goes into how our brains work, in reference to

"instant gratification." it looks like they found the

part of our brain which controls these impulses, and

that an injury to this part of the brain could increase

the need for instant gratification. however, it also

goes into that proper stimulous to this area could help

curb the need for instant gratification.

Message no. 745
Monday, April 7, 2003 5:19pm
Subject "I Want Patience, Now!"

I used searchbug.com for this search, and typed in the

keywords "instant gratification" and "patience".

I couldn't find any opinions that are against the claim

that today we live in a culture of instant gratification

where patience and determination are hard to find. I

think the issue of "instant gratification" already

existed when Eve ate the forbidden fruit from the Garden

of Eden.

We might find the issue of instant gratification getting

more serious nowadays becaus technology magnifies it.

Patience and determination have been hard to find since

the creation of human race, and that's why God included

"patience" to be one of the fruits of the Spirit in the

Book of Galatians (Gal 5:22).

The subject line of this message "I Want Patience, Now!"

is taken from an article posted by a bible commentator

from

http://www.starwire.com/CC/article/0,,PTID6280|CHID113939|CIID317556,00.html.

I found the title of the article very interesting and

decided to read through it. The author gives some

examples of instant gratification where people don't

have to wait when getting food from fast-food

restaurants, replies from emails, checking out from

supermarkets at self-checkout aisles.

As I mentioned earlier, technology doesn't make the

issue worse, it's only magnifying it. Don't you think?

Message no. 825[Branch from no. 745]
Monday, April 14, 2003 7:54pm
Subject Re: "I Want Patience, Now!"

In response to Samantha....

I definitely agree that technology increases our need

for instant gratification. That's one of technology's

purpose, to provide better, faster, service. With how

fast technology progresses. I'm wondering if our lives

will be much easier or more stressful with trying to

adapt to all the new technology. Another problem with

instant gratification and technology is that people are

so hung up about getting the newest appliances, gadgets,

etc. It's a part of stature to have the latest

technology, if you don't have it then you're not "in."

People dish out a lot of cash to get something right

away, when it eventually becomes replaced by something

even better or newer, in a few months or years that

would've been cheaper, if you were just patient and

waited.

Message no. 754
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 12:23pm
Subject Re: Instant gratification coping skills

I wanted to find out if there are ways to try to reduce

people wanting instant gratification or if there are

some coping skills. I searched using Yahoo, under

society and culture, and used the phrase "instant

gratification coping skills".

I found a good article at

www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~medi/fcs/family/glparenthtm.html#top.

It talks about how it's important that we let teens

experience problems and disappointments because they're

a part of life. Also, problem-solving is a survival

skill. The article states that "Over protected children

feel greater distress when they face challenges in the

real world and have not developed the confidence and

skills to cope".

Towards the end of the article, it explains some things

you can do as a parent to help your children cope with

disappointment.

I total agree with some parts of the article. If you

are always catered to and constantly being guided,

you'll always rely on somebody. It's impossible to have

a perfect life.

Message no. 764
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 8:41pm
Subject Role of Instant Gratification in young men

I used the search terms "american culture of instant

gratification" at Lycos. I wasn't really looking for

anything specific, but whatever caught my interest

related to the topic. I found this site

http://www.soulawakening.org/rediscovering.html about

how the culture of instant gratification sometimes

clouds what boys think it is to be a man. Researchers

asked young adolescents what they think it means to be a

man and they said, doing what ever the hell I want to

whenever I want to and not answering to anybody, which

is very disturbing.

The article says that "In basic developmental theory,

human beings are inherently self-centered at birth, and

it is initially through this "narcissism" that we learn

about ourselves and about the world by constantly

probing limits. But sometime during adolescence, it all

changesųat least it's supposed to. In reality children

become teenagers, and teenagers can be easy marks in a

culture where instant gratification and self-delusion

are too often substitutes for maturity.

Message no. 804[Branch from no. 764]
Sunday, April 13, 2003 3:08pm
Subject Re: Role of Instant Gratification in young men

I agree that adolescent boys are taught disturbing views

of the world, but I think it has more to do with sex

roles than instant gratification. Concerning the point

made about being self-centered at birth, it's more

complicated than that. Newborns' brains aren't

developed enough to realize that there is an existence

outside their imMediate perception -- referred to as

"out of sight, out of mind". At about 6 months of age

they realize this is not the case, and this is the age

when they get upset if their parent, favorite toy, etc.

is gone. This, however, doesn't mean that humans are

innately self-centered. There have been many

civilizations (Hawaii being the most relevant example)

where communities were valued above the individual and

sharing of everything was the norm. This goes to show

how much our upbringing and culture shape who we become

and affect every aspect of our lives.

Message no. 841
Wednesday, April 16, 2003 10:28pm
Subject websites about instant gratification

A. Today's search session dealt with instant

gratification. I was searching for new information

about this topic to add to my bibliography report.

B. I used the search engine www.Google.com C. Here

are the phases I used to find my articles: 1. instant

gratification, motivational mechanism 2. america's

instatnt gratification culture

D. While I was searching I didn't encounter any

problems. However, I had a hard time finding new

information about this topic just using the first

phrases. But when I used the second phrases, I found

more the right articles.

E. Here are some of the websites:

http://www.vancouver.esu.edu/amserv/theory/henry03-01.html

**This website was an examination of social class and

how your status in social class in society can effect

your health. This was a very interesting article. It

seems that the more money you have the more money you

have to spend on your health. They give a little

diagram of how class effects your health. They broke it

down into phases.

http://npin.org/pnew/1998/pnew1198/int1198d.html

**This website would be for parents, developmental

psychologist or anyone who is interested. On this

website, they give information about parental syles,

some questions to ask your children, and ways to spend

time with your children. This article fits into the

instatn gratification theory because it talks about how

parents teach their children instant gratification, and

patience at the same time.

http://www.youthradio.org/lifestyle/010822_fastfood.shtml

**This article talks about America's obsession with fast

food. Hint: fast food. It seems that the fast food

culture helps create a culture where we want our food to

be ready...instatly.

Message no. 895
Friday, April 25, 2003 12:44pm
Subject Business Competition hurls instant gratification

I used the search terms "instant gratification" to look

for anything related to this topic. I had no problems

finding this site on Vivisimo:

http://www.linuxtoday.com.au/r/article/jsp/sid/11471

Basically the article says there is a "collective

insecurity we developed because of 2001's tragedies.

The uncertainty has grown around some of the world's

most respected and established icons -- structures,

personalities, companies, and brands. Close to 1 million

people lost their jobs, millions lost their savings,

companies folded, and the airline industry took a severe

battering as a result of the ghastly events of September

11 and the attack's ongoing after-effects."

The author states that the result is that kids and teens

are likely to change their behavior dramatically. Having

witnessed startlingly sudden loss of life on a massive

scale, this generation will start to question the point

of planning, anticipating, and developing long-term

goals. They'll question the virtue of patience and

simply want instant gratification."

"The instant gratification mindset has been on the way

for years; 2001 just hurried along consumer adoption.

The past year's events have placed more pressure on

marketing's accelerator." It addresses businesses to

cater to people's need to of instant

gratificationbecause competitiors are likely to travel

faster than ever before, just to catch up with the

instant-gratification generation.

Message no. 904[Branch from no. 895]
Saturday, April 26, 2003 3:09pm
Subject Re: Business Competition hurls instant gratification

i can kinda see the point of this article...the events

that took place on 9-11 have caused people to think

what's the use of making an intricate plan for the

future because it could all end tomorrow...we should

live our lives to the fullest today and not worry so

much about what lies ahead...i try to have that kind of

mindset, whether it's healthy or not...i think that

although it is probably useful and wise to plan ahead,

spontenaeity can be fun...how does that saying

go?...carpe diem

Message no. 1044
Thursday, May 8, 2003 11:34am
Subject Itch

I was scratching a spot on my knee when I found out that

"itch" and "instant gratification" actually come hand in

hand all the time.

I used Google and typed in "itch"+"instant

gratification". I intended to look for something about

the physical itch and how we instantly gratify ourselves

by scratching it. I at first didn't have in mind that an

itch can also mean a desire to do something at once, but

I found it very interesting from the descriptions of the

results so I decided to read on.

The first article that I read

(http://www.s-t.com/daily/10-01/10-15-01/a01lo002.htm)

was titled "Scratching an Insatiable Itch". It is about

how people who got into compulsive gambling find lottery

games as the sole source of their problem. Most often,

it's the instant games like scratch tickets and Keno.

It's easier for people to get addicted to games of this

sort because they don't have to wait four or five days

to win. It is also true that the lottery is predicated

to get people hooked, especially those who can't afford

it. If they win a dollar, they win $5, and they

immediately reinvest until they lose.

Just like scratch tickets, slot machines also take

advantage of people's instant gratification. The

gambling industry seems to feed on people's instant

gratifications...

 

8. HELPING YOURSELF BY HELPING OTHERS

Message no. 20
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 4:22pm
Subject

The Buddha taught the importance of altruistic deeds two

thousands and six hundreds years ago. The book titled

"The Teaching of Buddha published by Society of the

Promotion of Buddhism" illustrates the principle of

Buddhist Teaching. In a chapter, „The Way of

Purificationš, it says „it is a very good deed to cast

away greed and to cherish a mind of charity∑ One should

get rid of a selfish mind and replace it with a mind

that is earnest to help others. An act to make another

happy inspires the other to make still another happy,

and so happiness is bon from such an act.š It seems

though as a human being, it is not easy to do for the

sake of others by putting oneself in the shoe of others.

However, I believe that joy of helping others is much

greater than own self-satisfaction. School teachers

feel rewarding by helping their students. Doctors and

nurses do their best to help their patients and their

recovery surely bring the feeling of happiness to them.

In my opinion, the statement, "The best way to help

yourself is to help others" is the important reminder

for human beings to be able to live in peace and harmony

with others.

Message no. 30[Branch from no. 20]
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:02pm
Subject Re:

This is a comment message for Emiko Kaylor on "Helping

Yourself by Helping Others":

The quote "An act to make another happy inspires the

other to make still another happy, and so happiness is

bon from such an act" reminds me of the movie "Pay It

Forward." (I never watched it, though I am sure its

recurrent theme was the permeation of kind acts.) And

let's not forget Mother Theresa.

I think that many people believe in this principle of

life, of helping others to help one's self. As you have

stated, teachers and doctors feel rewarded by helping

their students/patients. Being one of the coordinators

for a volunteer tutoring program on campus, I have come

across many volunteers being grateful for the

experience. Many, though not all of them, have become

more patient, more responsible, more understanding and

accepting of other cultures, and more aware of the

vital role they can play as mentors to children. (As for

those few who did not seem to have as meaningful

experiences as the others, I believe that their initial

motives in volunteering have impacted their

experiences; Many of them volunteer through our program

in place of writing papers 10 or more pages long.) I

believe that if you are not willing to partake in

something whole-heartedly or to look forward in gaining

something out of it (an intrinsic reward), then the

activity becomes more of a chore, something you derive

little pleasure from. I have been tutoring high school

ESLL students for four years now and I enjoy it.

However, I feel most rewarded when I see the students I

help, help other students. I remember how reserved they

were as freshmen and now, they are not afraid to ask

for help and help others who need the assistance.

And yes, I agree with you that this principle of life

helps and reminds people to live in peace. If only more

people internalized it as a guiding principle in their

lives...

Message no. 154[Branch from no. 30]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 2:54pm
Subject Re:

It's difficult in a country where being an individual is

so stressed for people to want to give to others. I had

a startly revelation my freshman year of college when I

realized that my motivation to volunteer did not come

from the sake of helping others, but rather from a high

I got from it. I tutored and mentored because it made

me feel good and that made me feel guilty. Today I

think that we should perhaps utilize Americans'

selfishness and show them how helping others can still

be about being an individual. I'm going with the high

because I don't know where else to go. As far as

doctors are concerned, I'm not really sure how many are

in it for the sake of altruism. I guess the real heros

are the ones who sacrifice luxory for a mediocre salary,

like teachers.

Message no. 371[Branch from no. 154]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:22pm
Subject Re:

In my opinion, action of helping others can take any

forms. Participating volunteer activities is one way,

but also studying at university can be the way to help

others. I am sure some of you who are majoring in

psychology are studying the subject in order to

contribute the knowledge to help others in the future.

I agree that indiciduals can also take an altruistic

action in their own way, if they want to.

Message no. 38[Branch from no. 20]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:31pm
Subject Re:

My job requires good customer service all the time. And

it is hard to be on your best behavior every single

moment. However, I do enjoy helping others just to put

a smile on their face. Of course helping others makes

me feel good because i did a good deed.

Message no. 48[Branch from no. 20]
Friday, January 24, 2003 2:06am
Subject Re:

As Michelle said, this topic and the questions that are

asked are very similar to the movie pay it forward with

the little boy (i forgot his name but he was in A.I. and

the Sixth Sense). Anyway, this boy had this vision that

if you help someone, they have to return the favor by

helping someone else so that the helping would be

exponential and kind of indirectly returned to the

original person that started it. You should see this

movie, it's very inspirational and dramatic at the same

time.

Another example could be the commercial for either the

beetle or the jetta (one of those cars) where a girl is

smiling in the beginning and it starts a chain reaction

of other people helping each other out. And to think it

all started with just a smile.

Message no. 875[Branch from no. 48]
Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:42am
Subject Re:

In reply to Emiko and the Jetta comercial.. Smiles are a

good way to help yourself by helping others. It is such

a simple guesture, but it really goes a long way.

Message no. 75
Sunday, January 26, 2003 7:19pm
Subject Helping yourself by helping others

I searched for "help yourself by helping others" in

www.yahoo.com. I didn't have any problems, surprising.

Over briefly reading through different websites, the

www.ucihealth.com/seniors/HelpOthers.htm had the best

article.

In the article, it pretty much talks about by volunteer

work. Alot of volunteer organizations uses this phrase

to catch peoples attention. The article also states

that a research has shown that older adults who

participate in volunteer activities have a higher energy

level and greater self-esteem and satisfaction in life.

It also gives a list of jobs, and the description, you

can voluteer for. Some examples are working at an

information desk, at a gift shop, messenger service, and

more.

Message no. 153[Branch from no. 75]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 2:50pm
Subject Re: Helping yourself by helping others

You stated that it has been shown in the elderly higher

levels of energy when they are helping others. That is a

great example of the topic. In a the book "Think and

Grow Rich," by Nepolian Hill, (a well known business

motivational book) it is stated that appreciation is

what humans thrive on, live for and work for. This makes

sense. It is true that when you are appreciated you feel

better, thus higher evergy levels. I bet there could

even be proof that helping others makes you live longer

as well. One last comment that I found shocking in the

book was that in order to have people acknowledge you

more in a business sense, ask them to do a task for you

so therefore they are helping you and seeking

appreciation and gratification on their part.

Message no. 176[Branch from no. 75]
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 5:23pm
Subject Re: Helping yourself by helping others

replay to Sarah Arzadon's message:

I saw lots of volunteer works using the phrase. It is

really good to know that people who engage in volunteer

work feel higher energy than who don't, especially for

old people, they can feel needed and still be part of

society. Finding those non-profit organizations is

pretty easy and they are also accessible, this is one of

the good things about this country.

Message no. 140
Monday, February 3, 2003 4:19pm
Subject helping yourself by helping others

I did my research on "helping yourself by helping

others." I was not looking for anything specific, but

just evidence that helping others helps you, in

whatever way that may be.

I used the search engine google.com. When I first

started my search with the search phrase "helping

yourself by helping others," I did not find any

meaningful articles. Instead, there were many

advertisements for books or places to volunteer. The

one article that I thought could be useful was already

posted by Sarah (on January 26). I then changed my

search phrase to "helping yourself by volunteering" and

this proved to be more successful.

Here are three articles very relevant to my research

topic:

The first one, titled "Helping Children Learn about

Kindness" can be found at:

www.hec.ohio-state.edu/famlife/divorce/pguides/sp7.ht m

and it is about teaching children how to help. Learning

how to help early in life is a key factor in building

strong relationships with others. This lesson does not

only help them learn how to "feel" for another person

as when putting themselves in the shoes of a child that

has been hurt, but it also helps them understand the

value of making others feel good and the reward of

making themselves feel good as well.

The following article "Volunteering: Helping

Others...And Yourself" from the Senior Citizen's Guide

can be found at:

www.seniorcitizensguide.com/articles/vol/volunteering.

htm

It states that since the elderly have more time on their

hands, they can volunteer their time to share their

knowledge and talents with others and in so doing, can

learn new skills from others and make new friends.

Volunteering is not all about giving; it's also about

receiving.

The following article, "Beating Stress," lists getting

involved as a stress buster. Besides taking time out for

fun and exercising, getting involved with others can

keep you from being lonely, depressed, and bored. As

stated in the artilce, "Helping others is often one of

the best ways to help yourself."

www.click-for-news.to/TotalHealthLibrary/0101/e527.ht ml

Message no. 365[Branch from no. 140]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 6:26pm
Subject Re: helping yourself by helping others

A similar article was found at

http://www.soulrise.com/common/helping.htm It was very

informative, just like your example on how to get

children to "do" something when they are faced with

distress (such as the disaster of 9/11). It emphasizes

the health benefit (for ourselves) by helping others.

Just yesterday, I ate my breakfast at Jack in the box

(heart attack breakfast) and watched a car stall on the

main road. I sat there for about 10 minutes just

watching all the passerbys drive on by without helping

the poor girl behind the wheel. I finished eating and

went out to help push her car off of the main road and

into the parking lot. My point: it's the little things

that we do to help others that make a difference. And

not only are we helping them, but we are helping

ourselves as well.

Message no. 366[Branch from no. 365]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 7:09pm
Subject Re: helping yourself by helping others

I commend you for your good deed. Not many people would

do what you did. I mean, look at all those people who

passed by. I'm sure you made her feel a little more

relieved. It's people like you that remind others that

there are still nice people in the world.

Message no. 155
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 3:08pm
Subject Energy healing

I thought it might be interesting to see what

askjeeves.com would give me when I searched under "How

is helping others helping yourself," unfortunately there

was no answer to the question. Therefore I went to

msn.com and did a search on 'helping yourself through

helping others,' and found a topic that I would like to

discuss at http://www.qi-synergy.com/../../8_1.html.

I was attracted to the site because it had the Ying/Yang

symbol on the front of the webpage, and the title said

"Free Healing Program : Helping yourself through helping

others." The first of the article was a nice 'opening

paragraph,' because I did agree that by expensing your

energy to others and the collaboration of each energy

creates higher energy levels that are benificial to

everyone. It says that you also need to be aware of

yourbody and take care of yourself so that when you help

others (for instance when they are ill, ie. cancer) then

you are at full potential to heal. I am very interested

in energy work and agree that using your energy to help

others also helps yourself and visa versa.

I kept reading the article, and the title "Free" turned

into a gimmic. It turned out that there are fees

involved and there are personal catches to the 'healing

program' like 10% profit to an organization, ect. It

does make sense in their eyes to use such personal

propaganda as "help yourself by helping others," because

some people might overlook it as being propoganda. It

disterbed me to read about this program using 'body

energy' so loosely and using the slogan "help yourself

by helping others." They made such a pleasant topic

controversial. -Thats the internet for you!

Message no. 358[Branch from no. 155]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:44am
Subject Re: Energy healing

This is in response to Love Chance...

I agree that being in good physical condition is

necessary to help others in turn. You have to be happy

with yourself both inside and out in order to help

others. It's also true that when your're around a

highly energetic person that positive energy rubs off on

the people around you and comes back to you as well.

There are many opportunities for all of us to be

helpful. Sometimes it just seems like everybody is so

busy with their own life, they don't stop to think if

other people need assistance.

Message no. 162
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 6:11pm
Subject Response to Emiko Kaylor

It gives someone so much satisfaction to know that

you've done something good for someone. That is true.

Unfortunately in todays' society altruism is not

commonly found. It's true that teachers and doctors

save lives but, is it altruistic. Can you think of

nothing that they get in return? It's horrible to say

but, it's a fact. I do totally agree though that doing

something just for the fact of doing it is truly an

uplifting experience.

Message no. 370[Branch from no. 162]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 10:57pm
Subject Re: Response to Emiko Kaylor

I totally appreciate what you said. I also agree that

"unfortunately in todays' society altruism is not

commonly found." In Buddhism, it explains that people

possess one hundred and eight attachments or worldly

desires, which cause sufferings. If you detach yourself

from such self-centered heart, you will be filled with

true happiness. What it is saying here is that you are

help by the power of helping others. Although it is

really difficult to put that into action becasue people

are basically self-centered, I believe this is the

important concept of life.

 

Message no. 177
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 7:13pm
Subject Buddhism and volunteer

I saw lots of advertisement for volunteer work when I

used the phrase "helping yourself by helping others".

Then I realized that I misinterpreted what that phrase

stated. I thought that it's something to do with

peaceful mind, calm and clear mind, happiness that come

from within self. What I thought it was , "helping

yourself to help others". When our mind is calm and

relaxed, our eyes in the minds can see things clearly as

they are without letting our past , our wish for

fantasized future, delusional thought distort what we

see. Interacting with the world, which we all do every

day and every second, that generate the sensations

through our 6 senses. We can be happy, sad, upset, or

troubled... But if we know how to calm the mind, we can

also control the sensations and still be able to relax

our minds. Calmed mind tells us what is right from

wrong, what action comes from good will, and it also

shows us room for compassion to others. That's what I

thought.

WWW.buddhistinformation.com/helping_yourself

_to_help_others.htm moght be helpful for people who want

to grasp the basi concept of Buddhism.

Volunteer work and actions that are not called volunteer

to help others assure us that we are needed and if we

recieve the word "thanks", that strengthens our

self-satisfactions. Yes, it does help us.

Message no. 716[Branch from no. 177]
Saturday, April 5, 2003 9:42pm
Subject Re: Buddhism and volunteer

Intersting that you choose to associate Buddhism with

helping people, personally I can find some correlation

with the Art of Yoga that is quite benificial to a

person. One who practices Yoga usually achieves a more

peaceful self, one without strife between others, and

this therefore helps others by being at peace with

others and avoiding conflicts.

Message no. 193
Thursday, February 6, 2003 6:21pm
Subject Helping yourself by helping others

I started out by searching on AOL using the phrase

„helping yourself by helping others.š I was surprised

by the amount of websites used this phrase to get people

to donate money. They used this reasoning to ask for

money or volunteer time. I wanted to find more

information on why this would be true, maybe from

experiments in scientific journals, but when I did a

search in science, nothing came up. When approaching

the topic, I thought I would find articles showing or

explaining how helping other people can give you a good

feeling. Many of the volunteer/donation websites were

using this view. I found one article that looked at the

subject the other way-that when you help yourself you

are helping others. You can find this article at:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9280/helping.htm

I think this is true because when you improve yourself

you can be more available to help others. It works both

ways. You can take your mind off of your own problems

by helping others and in turn feel good about yourself.

It can boost self-esteem and help a person gain

confidence. I also looked up altruism, but I wasn‚t

satisfied with the results because of the definition of

altruism. It means that a person helps someone else for

no other reason and that person does not receive

anything in return. This wouldn‚t apply to this topic

because people get a good feeling from helping someone

else.

Message no. 497[Branch from no. 193]
Friday, March 7, 2003 9:16am
Subject Re: Helping yourself by helping others

I think that we eventually get something back by helping

others. It may not be material things, but sometimes

the feeling of "being good" is good enough. I know that

many times when I am forced to help others, I think,

"What am I doing this for? What is it going to do for

me?" But in the end, I get a person's gratitude and

sometimes a simple "thank you" can really boost a

person's self-esteem.

Message no. 217
Friday, February 7, 2003 4:48pm
Subject bringing out more of yourself

For this topic I was looking for mental health. I

searched on yahoo.com and the words I used were „help

self by helping others.š I had no problems with finding

this article.

http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap3/chap3q.htm I found

this site about putting philosophy into action. Its

basically about you helping others then applying what

you learned to yourself. All of us have our own

philosophy on life and we use that to see the world.

This is our perceptions. Through our travels in life

the people we meet and interact with have a strong

influence on how we view the world. Those surrounded by

self doubt will lose confidence in their abilities.

Helping others even with the smallest of problems helps

to restore that self confidence by making us feel as we

are worthy human beings. Being needed gives people

security and allows them a base on which they can

explore new areas of themselves on. Restoring self

confidence in your self may lead you to find new things

about your personality you never knew before. Allowing

yourself to empathize with another can open up your

emotions and offer another dynamic of yourself you never

knew you had.

Message no. 226[Branch from no. 217]
Saturday, February 8, 2003 8:44pm
Subject Re: bringing out more of yourself

Stefan, you found a really great article on the

philosophy of helping. The article was very informative

in including steps involved in the decision making

process to help others, barriers to helping, and what

kind of parenting can bring rise to more altruistic

children. Knowing the barriers and steps to helping are

needed to reach the realization that anyone can help

others in their own way and feel appreciated both by

themselves and the people they are helping.

As a coordinator of a volunteer program here on campus,

I think I'll share the article with my partner and

think about including parts of it in our volunteer

orientation booklet.

Message no. 223
Friday, February 7, 2003 9:56pm
Subject Charities and such

For the most part, I found websites dealing with

organisations that wanted people to join them. While

there was some information on how helping others helps

yourself, it was fairly cursory.

http://members.tripod.com/lvngwell/helpothers.html Has a

bunch of different organisations, and they, in turn,

have information. There's also a nice quote by Mother

Teresa about how she felt about helping other people.

For the most part, there seems little doubt, except

among anti-socials and hardcore capitalist circles, that

helping others is both worthwhile and rewarding, so I

had some difficulty finding any arguments against this

one.

Message no. 237
Monday, February 10, 2003 1:19am
Subject Give the Gift of Helping Others

I found this article using SearchBug.com. It was one of

the first sites that showed up from my search.

http://www.scrippshealth.org/1185_1325.asp

This site had comments from people that do volunteer

work. All these people say that they do volunteer work

because they have a love for helping people, and there

is tremendous satisfaction from helping others. They

have been doing volunteer work for many years, and talk

about the how important it is to give back to your

community.

Message no. 307[Branch from no. 237]
Sunday, February 16, 2003 7:09pm
Subject Re: Give the Gift of Helping Others

I think that it is a great thing to vounteer your time

to helping others. It truly gives a person a feeling of

goodness and satisfaction. I know personally that

voulnteering yourself to others can make a huge

difference. I use to volunteer with my group from Hope

Chapel to feed and help the homeless. I think that it

was a good experience because they really appreciate

what you do for them.

Message no. 519[Branch from no. 237]
Sunday, March 9, 2003 8:59pm
Subject Re: Give the Gift of Helping Others

This is from the website that you posted. I thought it

was very cute that this older woman dedicated so much of

her life to helping others, and she is very right by

saying that she met some of the most wonderful people

there. It seems to me that you do meet the most amazing

people in your life when you are giving, because you are

not only giving you are recieving also it is 'love' -

the interaction between. Here is what she said:

Believe it or not, Mercurio has been volunteering at

Mercy for more than 41 years. She's worked in three or

four different gift shops, a number of different lobbies

and she saw the new hospital built in the early 60s.

"Over the years, I've met so many wonderful people,"

Mercurio says. "It really has become my second home, a

second family.

"Those who don't volunteer are missing out on so much,"

she adds. "They're missing the wonderful satisfaction of

doing something for someone else. And, believe me, you

get it back in so many ways."

Message no. 316
Monday, February 17, 2003 11:54am
Subject Healing power of helping

The search word I used for this search was: Healing

power of helping. I had no difficulty finding a very

interesting article. The address is

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/brown.html I was

searching mainly for any examples of how helping others

can be a source of healing. I found a very interesting

article about a woman whose son died from drowning. The

community was so poor that they did not have hospital

and ambulance services so the mother trained to become

an Emergency Medical Technician. She raised money to

purchase an ambulance and has volunteers that have

helped her save over 100 lives. By helping others she

has been able to heal over the loss of her son. She

says, "It‚s easier to forget your own loss when you are

busy helping others." The article goes on to talk about

the healing power the mind has and how so many who have

helped others experience this healing. The author also

states that even watching a film on selfless service

strengthens the immune response on his students.

Monday, February 17, 2003 4:16pm
Subject Re: Healing power of helping

I think you picked a great article! I really think that

it is true that when you help others you really are

helping yourself along the way. It's this altruistic

nature that more people in the world should develop.

That woman in the article sounds like such a strong

person. I really admire her for not being consummed in

her own grief, but going out there and making a

difference and helping others. This world truly needs

more like her. It was also interesting reading that

watching a video of selfless service can strengthen the

immune system. I think it's definitely more beneficial

helping others than helping yourself.

Message no. 364
Thursday, February 20, 2003 6:16pm
Subject Helping ourselves by helping others

I decided to find out what type of people believe this

principle. Using Google.com, I used the phrase "Helping

ourselves by helping others" and instantly came up was

an article by Deborah Spaide

http://www.soulrise.com/common/helping.htm This article

describes the "helper's high". A high people get when

helping those who need help. It also mentions something

called Logotherapy which is a type of empathy distress

that we (humans) feel when we witness a disaster, we

have an empathy instinct to want to help others who need

our help. The rest of the article explains how to have

children (your own or some child you know) help when

they are faced with this type of distress (such as

9-11). I recommend reading this article because it's

very interesting and informative on why it's always a

good thing to help ourselves while helping others.

Message no. 367[Branch from no. 364]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 7:15pm
Subject Re: Helping ourselves by helping others

Sherry, that was a very informative article. I

especially liked the term "helper's high." I agree that

it describes how a person feels after helping someone -

more proud of his/herself. That's true - after you do

something good, you feel much better, as if you'd like

to stretch your smile out wider.

And it's true - after 9/11, we witnessed many, many

people wanting to contribute blood, money, and their

time to help others. And we must not belittle the ideas

and contributions of children.

Message no. 407
Monday, February 24, 2003 10:08am
Subject Karma

I decided to look up some information about helping yourself while helping others and immediatly I thought of Karma. I used Yahoo to do my reseach and I had no problems with the search engine. I used the key term: Karma, and had about 80 matches. The web address I gathered my data from is:

http://www.dusers.drexel.edu/~buddha/Buddhism/Concepts/Karma.htm

Karma is basically the law of moral causation (in Buddhism). The concept suggest thst action has a reaction in the ethical realm. Therefore if you do a good deed like helping out the community, donating money, or helping one in need. In return for the good deeds you will expierence happiness or good "Karma" coming back your way. On the other hand if you do bad deeds like stealing, murder, or inflict suffering on another, you will have bad "karma" and you too will suffer (adventually). Karma basicaly means what comes around goes around, so it's better for you to do good things then bad because next time it comes around it will come right back to you.

Message no. 409[Branch from no. 407]
Monday, February 24, 2003 12:25pm
Subject Re: Karma

I may not be Buddhist, but I believe in karma and

therefore partake in doing good deeds. I'd like to

believe that what I do for others, others will do for

me; even small things like holding the elevator,

opening the door, picking up something they have

dropped, and offering advice or asking for help when

they seem to be having problems with something like the

computer at our office.

I admire those that I have seen do things for people

and it would be nice to have more of them around. I

have even scolded my boyfriend when he did not want to

let someone else come into our lane. I told him, "You

know, one day, you'll be blinking forever and no one

will let you cut in." Since then, he has been "nicer"

on the road and hopefully, it's not because I am in the

car. I'd like to believe that he does it all the time,

even when I'm not with him.

Message no. 456[Branch from no. 407]
Saturday, March 1, 2003 3:47am
Subject Re: Karma

This is a response to Tamara Allen's post about Karma. I

really believe in Karma. To have the mentality of "what

goes around, comes around". By having that mentality it

is just an easy way to deal with something bad happening

in my life, like having something stolen, vandalized,

etc. Rather than just holding in bitter thoughts and

thinking about how to get revenge which would only make

the situation worse. Those kinds of people that just

hurt others to get ahead in life never to get very far

in the long run.

Message no. 437
Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:25pm
Subject helping others

I did my search this week on the topic: help yourself

by helping others. I used Google with the words "help

yourself by helping others". A plethora of websites

appeared before me, and I chose one:

http://members.tripod.com/lvngwell/helpothers.html

This was a refreshing and inspiring page that really

made me want to give up some of my time for community

service. It was full of quotes and suggestions by

Mother Theresa about why helping others feels good.

Thge article then goes on to list some charity projects

that she hopes people would join to help the homeless,

cancer patients, and others who are in need. Seeing how

many people are dedicateing to helping the less

fortunate is heart-warming.

Message no. 452
Friday, February 28, 2003 4:13pm
Subject Can it Help You?

I did a general search on how helping others helps

yourself and what groups of people held this philosophy.

I found a lot of things that mostly dealt with volunteer

groups, churches, self-help groups, and for guilt (help

others to live). The problems I had with this search

was that I would get a lot of sites that used "helping

others" just as a catchy phrase for what their

organization was about and so it was not relevant to

what I was searching.

I used www.google.com and here were my search phrases:

„The best way to help yourself is to help others.š

2,150,000 hits „The best way to help yourself is to help

others.š +belief (468,000 hits) "I DON'T NEED TO HELP

OTHER PEOPLE" 5 HITS "I AM SELFISH" 3660 HITS "i AM

SELFISH" +DON'T HELP OTHERS 432 "I DON'T LIKE HELPING

OTHERS" 12 HITS "I DON'T HAVE TO HELP OTHERS TO HELP

MYSELF" 0 HITS "I DON'T NEED TO HELP OTHERS" 1 HIT

 

I found an discussion posting that a person made on

Google at:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22i+don%27t+help+others%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=7n06rs%242tu4%241%40twwells.com&rnum=1

This person was explaining about how she liked helping

others and how it made her feel good and then she

encounters a nervous breakdown. She realizes that she's

helping other people BUT herself. She overcomes her

problems and is back to helping other people because she

feels happier when she does.

Message no. 455
Saturday, March 1, 2003 3:10am
Subject Helping others

I found this article using www.google.com . I did not

have any trouble finding some good articles. I just

typed in; altruism, helping, others.

This article can be found at:

http://www.geocities.com/ajbenjaminjr/socialpsych/helping.htm

 

This article gives a couple of biological theories as to

why people help others. It says that people only help

their direct kin to ensure that their genes will be

passed on to future generations. This article also

shows steps that would lead to a person helping others.

Message no. 473
Monday, March 3, 2003 3:44pm
Subject Seminar

"People in helping roles are particularly susceptible to

burnout and compassion fatigue because of continual

exposure to negativity, suffring.."

http://myselfcare.org/seminat.htm

I found the seminar for people who engage in helping

others activities. Helping others cause us to need help

from others. I used the phrase: negative effects caused

by helping others. Interesting, and I suppose that we

should know our limits.

Message no. 474[Branch from no. 473]
Monday, March 3, 2003 5:42pm
Subject Re: Seminar

I think you brought up a good point - that "overly"

helping others can have negative effects, especially on

your health. It's good that there is a seminar that

deals with this issue.

I am taking an Aging class and I can see how this

concept of burnout and compassion fatigue is

demonstrated by long-term care workers. They spend so

much time and effort in helping others that they are in

dire need of a break. I suppose this is the extreme of

helping others non-stop.

Good job in looking for another perspective in this

research topic of helping others.

Message no. 483
Wednesday, March 5, 2003 5:57am
Subject Law of karma

I used the search engine searchbug.com. I just typed in

karma, and received a lot of good sites.

I found this site

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/freenet/rootdir/menus/sigs/religion/buddhism/introduction/truths/karma2.html

 

This article talks about the law of karma. Any event

that occurs in life will be followed by another event

whose existence was caused by the first. Whether it be

a good or bad thing.

Message no. 506[Branch from no. 483]
Friday, March 7, 2003 3:43pm
Subject Re: Law of karma

I always thought Karma was the auro you have around you,

either negative or positive. I never knew that it was

all about the chain of events. In that case can Karma

ever be changed once it is established. How can you

change the outcome if it was predetermined? I wonder.

Message no. 536[Branch from no. 506]
Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:46pm
Subject Re: Law of karma

In the Buddhist Teaching, it explains that we inherit

the karma from our ancestors. We call it "heredity" in

terms of science. It can be called "fate" in

Christianity. At the same time, we create our own

karma through our deeds in our daily livies without

realizing. Accumullation of good deeds will surely lead

to creating positive karma while bad deeds will lead to

creating negative karma. The Buddhist sutra explains

the ways to purify our negative karma. We cannot

eliminate negative karma overnight, but it is important

to continue accumurateing good virtue through

altruistic deeds.

Message no. 518
Sunday, March 9, 2003 8:54pm
Subject Quotes

That understanding about what we are callled here to do

is unexplainable in words, therefore we interact through

actions; soul to soul. To incoorporate this idea with

articles on the internet I thought that I would look up

'soul and helping yourself by helping others.' I didn't

find anything that I wanted to write about. Then I

thought about the topic and decided that I wanted to

post quotes of people when they were inspired under that

topic. So I typed in 'quotes and helping yourself by

helping others.' If you look up the website, post wich

quote you like. http://www.wow4u.com/helping/ (isn't

that a cute website name)

The quotes here are so simple. I am sure that just about

anyone has a quote that could be 'famous' but it is

based upon your actions that really matter. Anyone from

Mother Teresa to Jessie Jackson had some kind of mission

to accomplish, therefore they touched humanity through

what they were called to do. So some words that they are

quoted by reflect on what what they were acting upon.

"We can do no great things, only small things with great

love." Mother Teresa

"Never look down on anybody unless you helping him up."

Jesse Jackson

Check out the site. Lastly, here is the ultimate quote

by which I am sure we all already realize day to day,

moment to moment by every interaction: "Only by giving

are you able to receive more than you already have."

Jim Rohnalize

Message no. 521
Sunday, March 9, 2003 10:12pm
Subject City of Angels

Here I am again talking about the same topic. You have

to work with me in understanding this one... In this

search I already knew what I wanted to talk about. The

song lyrics to Goo Goo Dolls 'Iris' is a good

explaination of someone who lives by the topic: Helping

yourself by helping others. I found it under msn.com by

typing in 'iris lyrics.' It is at

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/cityofangels/iris.htm but

here are the lyrics anyways-

Goo Goo Dolls - Iris And I'd give up forever to touch

you Cause I know that you feel me somehow You're the

closest to heaven that I'll ever be And I don't want to

go home right now

And all I can taste is this moment And all I can

breathe is your life Cause sooner or later it's over I

just don't want to miss you tonight

And I don't want the world to see me Cause I don't

think that they'd understand When everything's made to

be broken I just want you to know who I am

And you can't fight the tears that ain't coming Or the

moment of truth in your lies When everything feels like

the movies Yeah you bleed just to know you're alive

And I don't want the world to see me Cause I don't

think that they'd understand When everything's made to

be broken I just want you to know who I am

I don't want the world to see me Cause I don't think

that they'd understand When everything's made to be

broken I just want you to know who I am

I just want you to know who I am

= We can get information from different sources, so in

the this research, I wanted to post a personal reaction

to these lyrics through my interpretation of this song.

It is very expressive to a person that understands the

philosophy of getting the most out of life by giving,

but sometimes it is hard to understand all the time.

When you look around there are times when there is much

negative energy around, that it might get you down, but

you have to realize that you have to be the light that

shines. And at that point it feels true in quotes of the

song, "I don't want the world to see me, cause I don't

think that they'd understand, when everything is made to

be broken, I just want you to know who I am." On that

note be the light that shines like stated in the Bagavad

Gita, "We see the sun through the light of the sun, and

we see the spirit through our own inner spirit."

Message no. 532
Thursday, March 13, 2003 1:56pm
Subject Selfish Help

I used Yahoo to do a search on the words "help + others

+ mother + theresa." Everyone knows that Mother Theresa

was a selfless giver, so I knew that something about

helping others was bound to pop up. I had no problems

with this search. I found an interesting site entitled

"Why You Should Not Volunteer."

http://www.virtual-paper.com/whistler/coastviews.nsf/947fd711b488256c0f00046ed5/b0fbe06c07d06c07d06f178825699b0033623!OpenDocument

The man who wrote this article was trying to say that

you should not volunteer for all the wrong reasons. For

example, helping others because people might think that

you are a good person and will respect you for that, is

not a good reason to volunteer. He says that by giving

to others, you are receiving at the same time. I

believe this is true. Helping others gives me a sense

of satisfaction and it makes me feel good about myself.

This is, according to the author, selfish. But in a

good way. He says that Mother Theresa was a selfish

person. And if you define selfishness to have

gratification by helping others, then I guess he is

right.

Message no. 759[Branch from no. 532]
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 1:34pm
Subject Re: Selfish Help

I couldn't get into the website that you posted, but

Mother Teresa is a good example to bring into this

topic. I really didn't understand the selfish idea of

helping others. If you get gratification by helping

someone else it is because that person is part of you.

By reaching out to touch them you are dancing with

another soul. This brings happiness to yourself because

we are all one. We are an interconnected creative

reality. He was wrong about being selfish.

Message no. 767[Branch from no. 759]
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 8:56pm
Subject Re: Selfish Help

By nature humans are selfish beings. It would be

foolish to think that we are not so. We must look out

for our own best intrests, but then again the thing that

separates us from the animals is the ability to

differentiate the things that would then make us

superior to animals. Helping others is one of those

things. It's good because it makes us feel good. One

could say that this would be the only reason most people

help other people, and it may very well be the start of

everyones altruism. You cannot blame anyone for helping

others for this very reason. It is like helping your

new neighbor move their things into their apartment.

You don't help because you have to but rather because

you want to make yourself feel better by not having to

say later that you didn't help. This is one way of

helping yourself, and it may not be a selfish reason at

all. How can it be selfisn to help yourself by removing

anxiety and worry from your own life?

Message no. 572
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 12:45pm
Subject Ethics for the new millennium

I found an interesting site that speaks a lot of

truth, or at least truth that I feel fits the bill.

Anyway, it is from "His Holiness the Dalai Lama," for a

special to MSNBC (on msnbc.com)

http://www.teosofia.com/ethics.html

He explains his idea of helping yourself by helping

others:

"In our concern for others, we worry less about

ourselves. When we worry less about ourselves, an

experience of our own suffering is less intense."

I suppose I can agree with his views, there is no real

gripe that I have with being nice. But like always, you

all know I'm pretty rare huh? LOL!

But seriously, look over the site, there are lots of

ethical content that you should consider.

http://www.teosofia.com/ethics.html

Message no. 608
Monday, March 24, 2003 12:06pm
Subject Prosocial behavior

I found this site using www.google.com . I tried to use

different key phrases to find why people help others.

Instead of using helping + others, I tried using

prosocial + altrusim. Many useful sites came up. I

found this site

http://arapaho.nsuok.edu/~webster/prosocialf02.pdf

This site gives different explanations of why a person

would help others. When we see someone in need there

are many factors that would determine whether or not we

would stop to offer help. This site give five possible

explanations as to why people would help others; 1.

Cost/Reward motivation 2. Emapthy 3. Characteristics of

the Needy 4. Normative Expectations 5. Personal &

Situational. This list is pretty close because many of

us would fall into one of these categories when making a

decision to help.

Message no. 659
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 10:04pm
Subject Seniors improve themselves through volunteering

I looked in msn.com under the phrase "helping yourself

by helping others". I got a lot links pertaining to

volunteering and how it not only helps others, but it

helps yourself also. One site is

http://www.seniorcitizensguide.com/articles/vol/volunteering.htm.

In this site, it talked about the benefits of senior

citizens volunteering. The benefits are that seniors

stay active and while volunteering, they can learn and

find new things that they enjoy doing. The senior not

only has something to do, but they are also learning

from their volunteering experience. By helping others,

they are also helping themselves. The article also gave

some tips about "volunteering wisely" and how to find a

volunteering program that best fits them and what they

enjoy to do.

Message no. 673
Thursday, April 3, 2003 8:58pm
Subject it wont hurt you...

in looking for something on this topic...i found lots of

different sites that dont really talk about it, but

allow you to actually DO it. there are cites like this

one that allows you to help teens/youths, or you can go

to the other end of the age spectrum and help elderly

here (www.ucihealth.com/seniors/HelpOthers.htm)

the point is, it feels good to help others. does that

make no sense at all? whether its just teaching a child

to tie his/her shoes, or to reading to a bed ridden

elderly person. helping others, may not pay you off

immediately, or directly...but the smile you bring to

someone else's face, and the direct affect YOU have on

someone's life will go beyond the here and now...and

will open you up to a better life for yourself!

Message no. 715
Saturday, April 5, 2003 9:38pm
Subject I like to help peeps

I used Google and first searched for the phrase „The

best way to help yourself is to help others.š but this

resulted in responses that were not the type I was

looking for. So I then searched for the phrase "help

yourself by helping others" and was rewarded with much

more desireable results.

http://www.ucihealth.com/seniors/HelpOthers.htm The

first result that proved quite interesting was from

research from UCI that indicated that older people who

help others by volunteering reap many benifits.

http://www.hotspots.com/cache/article_3186.html This is

an article from website for urban proffesionals who

network to advance themselves and help others at the

same time.

I discoverd that there are two very basic ways to help

yourself by helping others. One is to volunteer your

time in some fashion, the results being ..."a higher

energy level and greater self-esteem and satisfaction

with life" according to the UCI article. I personally

enjoy volunteering my time in the service of others,

even if it is difficult to do during the college student

era of my life. Networking is a very benificial

technique for discovering contacts that may be able to

help you in the future, but also contacts that you will

inevitably help sometime. This technique is opposite of

volunteering, because first you are attempting to help

yourself then later you may help others, in volunteering

you first attempt to help others and are consequently

helped yourself.

Message no. 757
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 1:28pm
Subject Creating Peace

So here is a good website that I found at yahoo.com:

http://www.creatingpeace.net/home.html. This makes so

much sense without even reading the article. But in the

website there are really good links of creating peace

within yourself, actions, words, and projecting it to

our world.

Here is the bottom line, with the manifestation to

create peace in our world, all that energy is coming

right back to you. There is a good quote on this website

about us as a whole really being One, " When all is said

and done,we know of only one Truth. That there is one

Creator. One which is the essence of Love. And from that

One, emerges each and every one. All That Is, is One,

when all is said and done."

This website is not based on money. The goal is to help

others understand peace, thus intern you help yourself.

Message no. 761
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 3:59pm
Subject Values for a Better Life

For this research session, I wanted to find examples of

people helping other people. I used the search terms

"helping others" to look for this topic and I found this

site: www.forbetterlife.org at Vivisimo. I found this

site relatively fast.

 

"The Foundation for a Better Life" creates public

service campaigns to communicate the values that make a

difference in communitiesųvalues such as honesty,

caring, optimism, hard work, and helping others. I like

this site because it has links to these different values

with pictures than you can click on which gives a story

of how these values are displayed.

 

They use different types of media to model the benefits

of a life lived by positive values. This site also

contains Inpirational stories and quotes that can

motivate people to help others even in the smallest way.

Message no. 820[Branch from no. 761]
Monday, April 14, 2003 1:06pm
Subject Re: Values for a Better Life

I liked this website that you found. There are so many

stories about people helping people. They do a good job

of helping to change community values. The thing I liked

about it was all of the motivational words at the bottom

of the page and you can click on them and read a story

about the word... Good page.

Message no. 809
Sunday, April 13, 2003 6:36pm
Subject objectivism v. utilitarianism

For this posting I wanted to find differing viewpoints

on helping others. I used google and searched

"altruism".

The first site i found was written by a fan of Ayn

Rand's philosophy of Objectivism:

www.vix.com/objectivism/Writing/InBrief/altruism.html.

If you've never read Rand her basic tenet is that

selfishness is the ultimate virtue and is best for

society as a whole. Of course, the site said altruism

was harmful because "on a personal level, altruism leads

to unearned guilt...[and] on an interpersonal level,

altruism leads to suspicion and ill will". Basically

what it's saying is that when we help people expecting

nothing in return we assume their hardships (and guilt)

unnecessarily, and also their resentment because they

won't really believe we don't expect anything in return.

The next site I found was based on the utilitarian

philosophy: http://www.utilitarian.org/altruism.html.

Utilitarianism poses that the greater good is most

important (basically the opposite of objectivism).

Therefore, this philosophy is a staunch supporter of

altruism, saying that if everyone helps each other

society would be better as a whole. However, it admits:

"The main problem with altruism is that the effects of

our actions on others are often significantly smaller

than the effects on ourselves". This basically means

that we take risks when helping others because we can

never be sure if we'll be helped.

So these are the 2 extremes: selfishness v.

selflessness. These arguments are only on the small

interpersonal scale, however, and (the websites at

least) don't discuss the implications of altruism on

society, i.e. the pros and cons of welfare, affirmative

action, etc.

What it comes down to is that both extremes are

impractical and idealistic. A balance must be struck

between the two.

Message no. 822
Monday, April 14, 2003 4:21pm
Subject synearth

I used msn.com as my search engine and used 'helping

yourself by helping others.' It brought me to a really

cool website about the entire timeline of humans helping

others. It is based more on a helping out humanity idea.

There is alot of information on this page.

One interesting thing that I liked about this website is

that it talked about synergy: the cooperative

interaction in groups and how two energies are so much

powerful than one.

Message no. 823[Branch from no. 822]
Monday, April 14, 2003 4:22pm
Subject Re: synearth

One more thing, this website can be found at

http://www.synearth.net/trust.html

Message no. 852
Friday, April 18, 2003 2:56pm
Subject Helping

I found this article using google.com. i did not have

any trouble finding this site.

http://www.dianetics.org/news/zero/

This is about a Gulf war hero helping out during the

9/11 incident. He was in his car on the phone when it

happened and as soon as he found out about the attack he

rushed to the site and began helping others for three

straight days. I find it really comforting to know that

even today people would sacrifice their time just to

help people that they do not know.

Message no. 876
Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:59am
Subject Helping others

I was looking for something different on the subject

this time, and typed in various words for the search

under msn.com, but really didn't find what I didn't know

I was looking for. I typed in "helping" "volunteer" and

so on just to see what would come up. There were some

great sights, but none I really wanted to talk about.

Here is a good site that I found

http://www.newsongsurprise.org/helping.htm. This website

is a website of all kinds of different projects there

are and what they do. It is interesting because I have

worked with a few doing projects.

I was really thinking about how psychologically we are

helping ourselves by helping others. And I came up with

the idea that because we constatly see other people, and

not ourselves our mind is involved in what we see

instead of who we are. So by helping what we see, we

feel like it helps us because we are part of what we

see.

Message no. 885
Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:52pm
Subject Helping Others

For this week's research I wanted to find out what kind

of person tends to believe in the notion that helping

others is the best way to help yourself. I used the

search phrase "helping others" on Google.com and came up

with these two sites:

geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9280/helping.htm

nuhealth.com/seniors/HelpOthers.htm The search went well

all things considered and I found that the people that

tend to believe in the notion of helping others are

motivational speakers. In fact most of the sites I ran

across were just that, motivational speeches.

Message no. 889
Friday, April 25, 2003 11:13am
Subject Driving Crossover

Ok, so I found another site about an organization that

is full-on against cell phone use, and it has pictures

of Morgan lee.

http://www.morganlee.org

I was going to post this link in the Driving w/out

compassion section, but decided to use it here because

of the idea behind this site that I found.

I know y'all are busy, but if you can, visit this site.

It's kinda creepy, disturbing, and sad. Morgan Lee died

in an accident due to cell phone use, hence the name of

the site. They have the chilling details about the

death of Morgan Lee in their link.

http://cartalk.cars.com/About/Morgan-Pena/letter.html

I think it's supposed to be a fear appeal, but this

letter is an example of how the legal system has a lot

of grey areas still (and someone can still legally kill

you if they were smart).

These people mean well, the parents of Morgan Lee

constructed this site to help others. They have

dedicated their efforts to helping others since their

loss cannot be retrievable. But through helping others

I feel they can find their own peace.

People need to learn to how to safely operate their

vehicle while multi-tasking. Everyone needs to. But

aside from that we need to be aware that these things do

happen, and that there are those that will make mistakes

that may change your life. Be wary.

Message no. 906[Branch from no. 889]
Saturday, April 26, 2003 6:52pm
Subject Re: Driving Crossover

I can see why you included this post in this category

and you did a good job in providing meaningful,

supportive evidence. I visited the sites you

recommended. It's a depressing story, but really one

that can help people think more about their actions

when driving, especially when using a cell phone. In

fact, people shouldn't be using cell phones while

driving.

I admit, I use my cell phone while in my car. I call my

boyfriend every morning on my cell phone while driving

to work, but only at a particular intersection where the

light takes a long time to change; in less than two

minutes, I can greet him good morning and say anything

else and hang up by the time the light changes to

green. And when it does ring while I'm driving, I let

it go until I actually reach my destination and park my

car. I get mad at people who talk on their cell phones

while driving and hence, I don't want to be like them

and have other people look at me the same way. The

people who do use their cell phones while driving seem

to always drive recklessly; it's when they don't stop

at a stop sign, change lanes abruptly, or are driving

recklessly that I turn my head and notice that they are

on their cell phones. Figures!

But with the concept of multi-tasking and cell phones

with headsets or speakers and what not, I suppose

businesses just keep permeating the habit. I mean, I'm

sure people do work while on the road, taking in calls

from clients, etc. and cell phone providers advertise

headsets and other gadgets for use with cell phones in

the car like holders. So, not only education and laws

are needed. Businesses and everybody's cooperation is

needed to make the streets safe.

Message no. 921
Monday, April 28, 2003 5:56pm
Subject Helping others Quotes

I wasn't looking for anything specific for this search,

I ran into this site http://quotes4u.tripod.com/ that

had quotes on helping others, love, etc. on Vivisimo. I

used the search terms "helping others."

Here are some of my favorites:

It is one of the most beautiful compensations of this

life that no man can sincerely try to help another

without helping himself. Ralph Waldo Emerson

It's the action, not the fruit of the action, that's

important. You have to do the right thing. It may not be

in your power, may not be in your time, that there'll be

any fruit. But that doesn't mean you stop doing the

right thing. You may never know what results come from

you action. But if you do nothing, there will be no

result. Gandhi

It is possible to give away and become richer! It is

also possible to hold on too tightly and lose

everything. Yes, the liberal man shall be rich! By

watering others, he waters himself. Proverbs 11:24-25

Message no. 927[Branch from no. 921]
Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:55am
Subject Re: Helping others Quotes

That was a cool-looking site. I liked how the image of

nature seemed to have been pelted with raindrops to

illustrate the quote about standing a little rain to be

able to see a rainbow.

I especially liked the quote by Benjamin Disraeli -

"The greatest good you can do for another is not just

to share your riches, but to reveal to him his own." I

can see the truth to this quote. I work with public

school students, from elementary to high school, and I

see that by helping them, they develop more confidence

in their skills and realize that they have a lot of

potential. However, these exchanges are not only one

sided; I do share my knowledge when tutoring them and

teaching them to do things, but they also give me

inspiration to continue helping others when they show

their appreciation, whether it is just saying thank

you, offering me snacks, writing me thank you

notes/cards, or telling their friends that I can help

them as well. And since I work with ESL students, I get

to learn about their culture and hear about their

experiences comparing their homeland with Hawaii.

Message no. 1041
Thursday, May 8, 2003 10:36am
Subject When we're giving, we're also taking

I used Google again for this search and entered „giving

is takingš. The results yielded were mostly about

churches and charities asking for donations. I then

entered „self-helpš and „volunteeringš which only pulled

up one article that I found useful. I wanted more

information so I searched for the third time, using the

keywords „learning by teaching othersš, because when you

teach, you‚re also helping the person whom you‚re

teaching. There were quite a few related articles, but

I only selected one which I found most interesting.

The article, „Recovering Alcoholics Effective in Helping

Othersš

(http://www.selfhelp.on.ca/archives/00000001.html), is a

report published by the Self-Help Resource Center.

According to Dr. Richard D. Blondell, an

addiction-medicine specialist at the University of

Louisville School of Medicine in Kentucky, recovering

alcoholics can help suffering alcoholics to quit

drinking and enter counseling, because the patients

relate to them. Although the report did not stress on

the help that recovering alcoholics get by helping other

alcoholics, the recovering alcoholics themselves must be

at least not losing anything, or else they wouldn‚t be

allowed to go on and help others.

The second article is about „service learningš

(http://maven.english.hawaii.edu/cest/1997/fujita/serlearn.html)

which was posted by an English 325 student of the

University of Hawaii. Service learning, a.k.a. learning

by teaching others, was part of the course curriculum of

English 325. The student also expressed that „if one of

the goals of English 325 was to help us, as students,

learn by teaching others, it has accomplished just that.

It is still hard for me to decide who learned more in

the process; the students or the teachersš.

I believe most people would feel that they gain

something when helping others, no matter if it‚s just

plain personal experience, interpersonal skills, or the

material they‚re teaching. People who have the ability

to give should feel blessed, but a bigger blessing

embedded in the part of giving is that while they‚re

giving, they‚re also taking.

9. SUCCESS BY HANGING ON

Message no. 252
Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:09pm
Subject The founder of Honda

The founder of honda, came up to my mind for "Success is

hanging on". Persistence, is the word he always had and

told people. So, I just typed "the story of Soichiro

Honda" to search this time and no difficulty at all.

http://www.bspage.com/1article/peo23.html There is his

brief history on the web.

The boy who was raised in a poor family in a poor

village dropped from school when he was 16, decided to

become mechaniscian. Instead of giving up and letting

things go, he never gave up when Toyota rejected hid

idea, the war and the earthquake destroyed his

factory... Finally, he led the company to the point,

Hoda employ more than 100,000 people in Japan and the

U.S.

I think people who say "success is hanging on" are

people who knew and experienced the success by haging on

with persistence.

Message no. 255[Branch from no. 252]
Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:46pm
Subject Re: The founder of Honda

Kyoko, you found a great article that illustrated the

fruits of persistence. It definitely was an example of

"success is hanging on." I think it would also go

nicely under the topic "Judged by what we finish."

I think it is admirable how Mr. Honda came from humble

beginnings and out of his hard work and innovativeness,

has become well to do. He rightfully deserves to enjoy

his success.

Doesn't his story just make you wonder how much we can

do ourselves? I'm sure everyone has some amount of

persistence and though it might seem cliche now, no

matter how intense or how many obstacles we encounter

in life, we'll be able to say that we have been

successful after having hung on through all those

ordeals. I definitely agree with your last statement

"people who say 'success is hanging on' are people who

knew and experienced the success by hanging on with

persistence." Who else would be better in giving that

kind of advice?

Message no. 471[Branch from no. 255]
Monday, March 3, 2003 3:14pm
Subject Re: The founder of Honda

Thank you Michelle.

Yes, we face obstacles everyday, it could be small and

easy to get over, ot it could be so huge and require

years of patience and efforts. When I face the

difficulty, I picture a bamboo on my mind. Until

yesterday, things were so so smooth, as if nothing

prevented me from getting what I want. BUT today,

everything has been changed completely, as if this is

the end of the world. In fact, it is not, but it feels

like it. So, I'm facing one joint of many on the bamboo.

If I get over thins joint, I will face next joint soon

or later. Hopefully, my bamboo will be long and strong

with many joints, so I can have enough stories to tell

my children or grandchildren, even though they would not

want to listen to such an old woman's stroy.

Message no. 650[Branch from no. 255]
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:38pm
Subject Re: The founder of Honda

its interesting because in the short amount of

time/experience i've had with the Air Force...i've had

privilages to meet so many people. inside AND outside

the service, and they are all very intelligent and

successful people. one thing/theory that they all share

and advise...is to NEVER give up. which makes sense.

if you give up on something...you NEVER know how

successful you could have been.

and c'mon...how can you disagree with the man who's

company came up with a 240 horse power FOUR CYLINDER

engine...now HE knows success...!! (sorry, just a

little something for all the car lovers!)

Message no. 267[Branch from no. 252]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 7:09pm
Subject Re: The founder of Honda

This is a very interesting article, Kyoko-san. In my

opinion, Mr.Honda is the true example of a man of

"self-efficacy." Not because he was the successful

business man, but he always believed in himself and what

he did. I am sure he made lots of mistakes in his life

too but he never lost the way to achieving his goal with

strong determination!

Message no. 679[Branch from no. 252]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:14pm
Subject Re: The founder of Honda

thats a great story. if we look around at who has the

capabilities to do this we see that these people are few

and far between. it would be great if everyone could but

persistance is a special trait and not giving up after

you been brought down is an even harder one to find.

Message no. 713[Branch from no. 679]
Saturday, April 5, 2003 8:02pm
Subject Re: The founder of Honda

i'd have to give that one a big loud "amen." some

people have the talents, smarts, and ability...but never

get the opportunity...why? because they just didn't

stick in there. example. a famous story about a down

and out...aspiring actress who lived in hollywood (at

the time, called "hollywood land"...thats what the sign

on the mountain said..this was in the first thrid of the

20th century) had been living there for a while, nearing

two years i believe. and she hadn't gotten her break.

she fell into a pit of depression...and decided that she

didn't want to keep pushing...and she jumped off of the

"H" in the "hollywood land" sign on the mountain. the

next day, when they found her body, she also received a

letter asking her to fill a lead role in an upcoming

movie...not a BIG movie, but one backed by a major

studio.

it's an extreme case...but one that shows that you never

know what you can accomplish...if you give up. when you

die trying, then...and only then...will you know exactly

what you could've accomplished. nothing, or

everything...you never know until you try!

Message no. 285
Friday, February 14, 2003 12:18pm
Subject Perseverance

I searched three different search engines,

www.yahoo.com, www.alltheweb.com, and www.google.com. I

didn‚t have any luck at first when I searched success

and hanging on. So I finally changed the words to

success and perseverance or just perseverance. After

doing this, I found a lot of different websites with

good information on the subject. Of the websites I

found, these were my favorites,

http://www.thinkwow.com/dave/perseverance.htm,

http://www.stimulus.com/v/4/mind/perseverance.html,

http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~pstuart/ab2/motivation.html.

The first website is a bunch of quotes that relate

to patience, perseverance, and success. One example is

„There is no failure except in no longer tryingš-Elbert

Hubbard. The second website I really liked because

it tells how people succeed by practice in a particular

area so that they get good at that skill. It also says

that a good way to tell you are about to succeed is

experiencing the point when things get really hard. If

you don‚t give up, success is on the other side of the

hill. The third website is a very inspiring story

of a person with cerebral palsy with such an amazing

attitude on life. He talks about how he overcame the

disease mentally. He uses a positive attitude and

focuses on what his capabilities are, not what he can‚t

do. This is a very encouraging, an uplifting story of a

person with an open heart and a lot of love for himself

and others.

Message no. 309[Branch from no. 285]
Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:07pm
Subject Re: Perseverance

I visited the sites you recommended and I especially

liked the second one, just like you. I liked the graph

that illustrated the experience of completing a

(complex) task. I think it is true that when some

people are overwhelmed by an obstacle, they quit, even

if they were seemingly so close to their goal. When

others reach that "success threshold" and overcome it,

they realize that when they do reach that point again,

they can again overcome it.

I must also agree with you that when first searching

material for this topic, I had some difficulty finding

relevant information. Well, at least you didn't quit;

see, an example of success through perseverance.

Message no. 312
Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:57pm
Subject Success through perseverance

I used google.com to look for examples/evidence that

success comes through perseverance. I had some

difficulty at first because the search phrases I was

using didn't bring up relevant information. When I typed

in "success is hanging on," I had sites about

hanging/mounting pictures and hanging out with

friends;the words "giving up" produced too many results

related to sports; and "benefits/evidence of

perseverance" came up with many religious links. The

most useful term was just "perseverence."

These are three sites that cover perseverance:

1) http://www.mcfeth.com/Success.htm

This is a poem titled "If You Think You Can" that

basically talks about perseverance and having faith in

yourself to accomplish a goal, especially when you're

nearing it.

2) http://www.topachievement.com/persevere.html

This is an article that includes a quiz in your ability

to persevere. It states that "perseverance and failure

cannot coexist...[that] stick-to-itivenss is the

ultimate success insurance." It goes on to include 11

ways to raise your "perseverance quotient," some of

which are avoiding the no-action alibi and identifying

counterproductive habits or thoughts you want to

discontinue. And did you know that Charles Schulz (the

creator of Peanuts) failed every subject in the 8th

grade and had his work rejected again and again?

3)

http://www.fortisbenefits.com/fbic/fortisbenefits/compan

y/press_re/allen.htm

This site takes you to an article about Mike Allen, a

recipient of the "Perseverance Award," given by the

Fortis Company. It talks about his bout with cancer and

how he had to become the caretaker when his wife was

later diagnosed with cancer also. It's another

inspirational story that shows how not giving up can

mean everything.

Message no. 523[Branch from no. 312]
Monday, March 10, 2003 10:59am
Subject Re: Success through perseverance

This topic of perseverence through life brings me to a

quote that I have heard through my life, "If you don't

succeed the first time, try, try again." I have alsays

tried to keep this phrase in my head when times of

rejection.

Life is full of obstacles in which an individual faces.

One mut look over these hardships and go on. The key

factor here is not to quit. Just like michelle said,

Schultz, the creator of the comic "Peanuts", got

rejected many times but persevered over his obstacles,

You must beleive in yourself.

Message no. 330
Monday, February 17, 2003 2:59pm
Subject Never give up

I wanted to find an article that supports that the

secret to one's success is by hanging on.

I used the search enginge http://www.skworm.com, using

the search words: success and perseverance. I found

this article: "Perseverance, the secret to success".

http://www.madwed.com/story/Chat_Room_Wisdom/Opportunities/Perseverance__The_Secret_To_Su/body_perseverance__the_secret_to_su.html

This article has quotes from John Calvin Coolidge, John

D. Rockefeller, Thomas Edison, and Mark Twain. These

well known men are products of perseverance. The

article shows that to want success you mustn't give up

even when you think you are defeated.

Also using the same search engine I found another

article using the same key words used in the first

search above. The website I found was:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~larry333/perseverance.html

The article "Perseverance is they key to success" in the

EcoVision Journal has many stories again about memorable

men who didn't give up on their dreams and as a result

have become successful. It's that ambition and

perseverance that have contributed to how they became

successful in their field.

These articles proove that success is achieved when you

stick to your goals and never give up no matter what

anyone says.

Message no. 354
Thursday, February 20, 2003 9:21am
Subject Stories of perserverance

I looked in msn.com under the word "perserverance".

There were a lot of sites that led to quotes about

perserverance, but not many articles about it. What was

interesting was that I realized that there are many

inspirational stories about perserverance. In one site

that I went to:

www-compliler.csa.iisc.ernet.in/~gkumar/tales/perserve.html,

a story was told about a little girl who tried to go buy

a "miracle" at a drug store for her brother who is very

sick. Her family didn't have money to cure him, so she

decided she would do something about it. She insisted

that she could buy a miracle at a pharmacy. A stranger

heard her (who turned out to be a surgeon) and gave her

brother an operation for free. The point of the story

was that with perserverance, miracles could happen.

The second site I went to was

www.hajones.com/perserverance.html. This site was a

listing of books that had the theme of perserverance.

One book mentioned was about Helen Keller. Although the

story before may be just a tale to inspire, Helen Keller

is for real. I think that without perserverance, Helen

Keller would not have been such an inspirational person

to all of us today. She is only one example of a person

who hung on and received sucess in the end.

It was great and inspirational just to hear stories

about those who hung on and succeeded in the end.

Message no. 372[Branch from no. 354]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:48pm
Subject Re: Stories of perserverance

Reply to Ly Vuu message:

I agree that perserverance is one way to succeed in life

and yes, it is very nice to hear about inspirational

stories. Somedays it so hard for me to wake up when all

I hear about is the war or all the bad things that are

going on. It seems that there isn't enough media on

prosocial behavior. I wonder what would happen if the

media showed more prosocial behavior. Would it create a

better culture?

Message no. 453[Branch from no. 372]
Friday, February 28, 2003 9:29pm
Subject Re: Stories of perserverance

Perseverance is defiantly part of the recipe for

success. I think just the many stories of people who

have had little to nothing growing up and who have

become not only successful but inspirational to many

other people exemplify perseverance. Inspirational

stories give many people hope to overcome any situation

especially those who are in similar and desperate

situations. It was probably hard to find inspirational

and perseverance related topics because today's society

is more concerned with money, sex and gossip. It's to

bad we don't hear more inspirational stories everyday

who knows it could inspire us to do our best or better.

Message no. 678[Branch from no. 354]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:12pm
Subject Re: Stories of perserverance

i think perserverance is a special thing but not all of

us posess this trait. it always helps to know someone

that never quits until the task is completed. It would

be wonderful if everyone could do this but it would

upset the natural balance of things. some people must

persevere and others just give up.

Message no. 383
Friday, February 21, 2003 5:01pm
Subject Weight loss stories

A. The specific topic I was searching for was any

sucess story that

B. The terms I used: success+stories+with+weight+loss

C. I found no problems while searching. There are so

many stories about this topic.

D. I used the search engine: google

E. The web address was: theweighwewere.com When you

arrrive on this page, you have to scrolll down to the

bottom of the page and click on sucess stories. They

have about 6 stories on this page.

F. I read the article about Novy Foland. He and his

wife were trapped in the "couple comfort zone". I guess

they felt they didn't need to impress each other

anymore. One of the interesting things about this

article is the couple's stregnth to work together. I

felt it was an example of holding on to be successful in

lossing weight because lossing weight is a hard thing to

do.

Message no. 393[Branch from no. 383]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:19pm
Subject Re: Weight loss stories

I agree that obtaining any goal requires effort and in

many cases is flat out hard to do. As far as losing the

weight that is only half of the goal. If your goal is to

lose weight it should also be to maintain the lower

weight and a healthy diet in combo with exercise. So

maybe in the case of the married couple they had only

began to achive their goal. I also wonder why they

really wanted to lose weight. You said that they got

into the comfortable zone and no longer wanted to

impress each other...hmmmmm. Is that a good reason to

want to change your body? I think that it would make

more sence to lose weight for yourself to raise your

selfconfidence level as well as living a healthier life

style. After your married should you have to impress

your mate? What ever happened to uncondtional love? What

ever happened to jst being happy with yourself? I say,

be happy with who you are and impress yourself, screw

what other people say (even if it's your mate!)

Message no. 763[Branch from no. 383]
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 4:45pm
Subject Re: Weight loss stories

In response to Alicia.....

I think having a successul marriage takes a lot of work

like the example you gave about the couple who stayed

together to overcome problems with weight. Couples need

to go into marriage thinking that despite weight gain,

money problems or what have you, you need to at least

give it a chance and work out differences some how.

That's why we have such a high divorce rate because as

soon as couples don't find the need for their other half

or don't want to work out their differnences, they take

the easy way out and just get divorced. Succes in

marriage is definetly hanging on through the bad times

not just the good.

Message no. 553
Saturday, March 15, 2003 4:57pm
Subject Research Message: "Sucess is Hanging On"

For this research session I wanted to find if there was

any relationship between success and persistence. I

used Google as my search engine and typed "success and

persistence" as the search phrase. The article I chose

was one that gave a brief listing of the characteristics

similar to successful people. Some of which were

determination and persistence, humility, and a disregard

for failure. The article also chronicled the

determination of Sylvester Stalone in getting "Rocky"

produced to the big screen. This article can be found

at

www.happycareer.com/html/a_successful.careerrequires_per.asp

Message no. 609
Monday, March 24, 2003 8:39pm
Subject Determination and hanging on

Using MSN.com and the phrase "success and

determination", I was able to find and article that

supports this idea.

The article called "Determination" by Inner Frontier

states "What determines who succeeds and who fails?

Certainly luck, preparation, and circumstances shape our

possibilities. But none of these are either necessary or

sufficient. The one indispensable factor in success is

determination."

They further state "Determination is the ramrod strength

of will to see the path through, come what may, even in

our weakest and most distressed moments. Yet the truth

is, it waxes and wanes. At times when other interests,

cares, and burdens distract us, our inner work and

determination to practice may weaken.

http://www.dalexis.com/library/Self_development/determination.htm

This article is about our divine will and about our

spiritiual selves.

This time using the phrase "hanging on and success" I

found an article called "Here's to your success" by

Attitude Is Everything, Inc.

http://www.attitudeiseverything.com/success9803.htm

The person who quotes "Success seems to be largely a

matter of hanging on after others have let go" is by

William Feather.

This article is about tolerating others and how it goes

along with success.

Message no. 625[Branch from no. 609]
Friday, March 28, 2003 11:46am
Subject Re: Determination and hanging on

I do believe that success is a result from determination

and hard work. Other factors may be luck, compromise,

and tolerance. To survive, you have to learn to stick it

out with the hard times. A good marriage is one that

both parties can tolerate the good and the bad of each

person, and learn to accept the other person. People

who give up too quickly and too easily are usually the

ones that aren't successful.

As long as you prepare well, have the motivation, work

hard, and never give up...you will succeed. Luck may get

your foot in the door, but it won't lead you all the way

to success. You have to work hard and not give up...even

once success is reached...you must still keep moving

forward...

Message no. 626
Friday, March 28, 2003 11:58am
Subject Never give up!

In this search, I typed the words 'Never give up' in

www.google.com. I didn't encounter any problems. I

wanted to search for stories of people who are in

distress that is related to never giving up.

In came across this website:

http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Articles/NeverGiveUp.htm

In this site it states that one in ten children suffer

from mental disorders ranging from depression to

schizophrenia, but less than one of three will find

help. Parents and family members have a powerful impact

of a child's behavior, attitude, and approach to life.

Individual therapy is not enough, parents need to be

good role models as well.

Children tend to imitate and adopt the behavior of

others. As long as these children are getting emotional

support from the people around them...they may get

better.

Message no. 789[Branch from no. 626]
Friday, April 11, 2003 3:47pm
Subject Re: Never give up!

I found this article to be very interesting but

misleading. First of all, the author gives symptoms,

causes for the symptoms, and then possible solutions.

My reasons for not liking this article is because it can

be misleading for a person who is looking for answers if

they have a "problem" child. I mean, when I read this

article, I could say, hey that's me or it sounds likes

me. For instance, if any one has taken abnormal

psychology, one of the first thing the teacher may say

is that after or during this course many students think

they are abnormal.

However one of the good things about this article is

that it may open people's eyes--especially to parents

who never know what's wrong with their child or what

they are doing wrong. But again, the reader has to be

careful what they are reading because the causes for the

symptoms may be true for one person but not for the

other.

Message no. 723
Sunday, April 6, 2003 3:44am
Subject success and commitment/perserverance

I wanted to find out what is the main factor in success,

if perserverance is really as important as it seems. I

used Google(again :) ) to search success+perserverance.

http://pub39.ezboard.com/ftotallifesuccessfrm3.showMessage?topicID=487.topic

The first result that I choose to use was the most

interesting; it made a distinction between perserverace

and commitment.

http://www.topachievement.com/perservere.html The second

gave a sort of success formula, that included

perserverance, and a success quiz.

Success can be argued to not always be the result of

perserverance, but always the result of commitment.

"Commitment is a decision that you will take the action

you've chosen, even though you are not sure how it will

end up.

Perserverance is the decision to continue effort to

achieve a particular outcome despite the fact that your

prior attempt did not succeed.

Success ALWAYS takes commitment. It does not necessarily

need perserverance - unless and until your first attempt

doesn't work out."

I believe that actually neither is true, it is QUITE

possible to be successfull as a result of other factors,

such as luck. It does not require commitment for winning

the lottery or encountering a great job offer, but more

often than not you need either commitment,

perserverance, or a combination of the two to achieve

success.

Message no. 766
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 8:54pm
Subject Map to Success

I used the search terms "success is hanging on" at

Yahoo. I wanted to look for personal stories of how

people viewed their success by being committed. I didn't

find one, but I did find a cute little activity that

makes an analogy of obstacles to a road to obstacles in

life.

http://www.clayton.k12.ga.us/bulletinboards/catchy_captions.htm

Here it is...

Your Road to Success Put a road map of the United States

for the background. Make a road of of black construction

paper going across the map and make cars, trucks and

semi-trucks out of die cutouts, going in both

directions. Put road signs (in road sign shapes such as

caution, exit signs, and advertisement etc.) with

motivational sayings. EX: Leaders this way (w/arrows),

caution: road blocks ahead, risk takers straight ahead,

follow your dreams, caution: don‚t follow the crowd,

success is hanging on when you want to let go (with

clipart of a monkey hanging on), mistakes are merely

steps up the ladder, this way to new opportunities,

think about your goals, not your limitations. Make the

cars and trucks pop out with some folded (like a fan)

construction paper.

Message no. 777
Thursday, April 10, 2003 3:31pm
Subject Self Determination and Success

It took a while for me to find this article on

google.com. I had to keep adding search terms to narrow

it down to a topic that actually relates to the topic.

I used the search terms "examples,personal, success,

life, stories."

http://www.washington.edu/doit/Brochures/Technology/charge.html

This site offers advice from people with disabilites

who've overturned their misfortune to success. People

with disabilities face many obstacles- physical

obstacles, social rejection, academic failure, and

medical crises. Yet some people do overcome significant

challenges and lead successful lives.

These insights may help young people learn to lead

self-determined lives. "Self-determination is a

combination of skills, knowledge, and beliefs that

enable a person to engage in goal-directed,

self-regulated, autonomous behavior. An understanding of

one's strengths and limitations together with a belief

in oneself as capable and effective are essential to

self-determination."

Wednesday, April 16, 2003 11:59pm
Subject Re: Self Determination and Success

Other important parts in the article: defining success

for yourself, understanding your abilities; stregnth and

weaknesses, and developing strategies to reach your

goals.

In my opinion defining sucessful for yourself is THE

most important step to achieve success because then you

know what you want. Or when you will be happy,

fulfilled, or whatever you are looking for.

My defintion of success: When I stop playing games with

my mind.

Message no. 807
Sunday, April 13, 2003 5:24pm
Subject Success=tenacity?

Today I wanted to see if success was just about hanging

on and being tenacious. I searched "success tenacity",

"success perseverence" and "success".

With tenacity, I found a lot. At

http://www.credit-and-collections.com/article-mkt-sanchez.html,

there is an article entitled "Tenacity the key to your

success". At

www.msbusiness.com/archives/21v45n/Focus/11266.php, they

quote a CEO saying "success is very simple: tenacity".

The amount of sites I found is pretty amazing.

With perseverence, I found just as much. News articles,

self-help sites, message boards, all say success is

through perseverence. All of these sites say so:

www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/7074/,

www.epinions.com/kifm-review-66A1-286DD1C-38C45D70-bd3,

rsvp4success.com/SuccessQuotes-Persevere.html. I could

add dozens more.

Of course then I simply searched "success". That was

too broad so I searched "success secrets". There are a

ton of secrets to success, and since there are so many I

doubt they're so secret. I event found the secrets of

success for strippers: www.strippersuccesssecrets.com.

I was impressed.

So what does this wealth of information I found tell me

about how accurate the statement "success is hanging

on"? Not too much. Since telling others how to be

successful is such a money maker, people will say about

anything is the key to success.

Basically what it comes down to is that there are many

things that make people successful, and tenacity is one

of them. Of course, so are education, determination,

ingenuity, and many others.

Message no. 851
Friday, April 18, 2003 2:20pm
Subject Success story

I found this site using Google.com. It took me awhile to

find it. The site is at:

http://www.pearsonedtech.com/successes/referencing.htm

This site tells a story of how a person entered a

business at the bottom then eventually with a lot of

hard work rose to the top and ending up running

everything.

Message no. 877
Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:46pm
Subject weight loss

Today I was searching for weight loss information to add

to my biblography report. I used the search engine

http://www.searchbug.com typing in the phrases (1)

dangers of diet pills (2) diet pills (3) weight loss

stories While I was using this search engine I

encountered no problems. In fact, everything went

smoothly. Here are some of the articles I found:

http://www.bodyforlife.com This is article gies

information on how to lose weight. It provides a weight

lifing program and shows pictures of people who took the

body for life challenge.

http://www.bodyweightloss.com This is a website where

weight loss success stories can be found.

http://www.bodywellnessprogram.com On this page, they

provide information about how to lose weight with a

doctor providing a program for you to follow. They also

have articles for you to search and a discussion area.

http://1is2fat.com/teenagers_dangers_diet_pills.htm This

article talks about the dangers of diet pills,

especially for teenagers when their body is still

growing.

Message no. 996
Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:44pm
Subject Success is in the conscious

I wanted to see how much your mind can contribute to

being successful. I used the search engine

http://www.google.com with the key word: success. I

didn't have any problems with the search and I found

this website: http://www.successconsciousness.com

This website is about how the mind and inner self are

the first important components of success. It says that

to be successful you must start from the inside out. It

says "your mind creates the cirucumstances and events in

your life." The website also has a list of things that

can help you overcome your obstacles and become

successful.

Message no. 1037
Thursday, May 8, 2003 10:11am
Subject Don't let go if you want to make it

I first typed in the keywords „success is hanging onš

when using Skworm at www.skworm.com. I‚ve never used

this search engine before, so I thought I might just try

my luck. The first trial didn‚t pull up much relevant

information that I needed. Many of them were about

dieting and weight loss. I gave it a second try using

the same search engine and typed in „successš and

„perseveranceš. This time, the search engine hit some

sites which I found very interesting.

The first site that I found was a speech by Maulana

Wahiduddin Khan, titled „Success in Perseveranceš

(http://www.alrisala.org/Articles/papers/success.htm).

One of the examples given in Khan‚s speech illustrates

how nature, with perseverance, can perform tasks that

seem unimaginable:

"Look, the rock is a hard object, while water is so

soft. But even if as soft a thing as water acts with

perseverance, it can crush as hard an object as a rock

into pieces. All the huge quantities of sand found on

the sea shores have been produced by this lashing of

water against the rocks."

It is fascinating to see that even the nature tells us

that perseverance can help us accomplish what at first

seems impossible to us.

 

10. JUDGED BY WHAT WE FINISH

Message no. 112
Friday, January 31, 2003 10:36am
Subject Judge by what we finish

I searched for evidence that supported the quote "We

are judged by what we finish, not by what we start." I

actually used the exact quote as a search phrase in

google.com. I did not have much trouble finding articles

that supported the claim.

The following article, which can be found at :

www.technobility.com/docs/tppage179.htm

is very brief, but hits the main point - we are judged

by what we finish. Things like checking off a task on a

to-do-list, breaking the ribbon at the finish line, and

smiling after finally doing something you've been

putting off, are "celebrations" of the effort you put

into accomplishing those things.

Message no. 121[Branch from no. 112]
Friday, January 31, 2003 3:05pm
Subject Re: Judge by what we finish

I agree with being judged by what we finish. Anyone

can start and project, start a movement, or even start

school, but it take an exceptional person to finish the

project, bring the movement to the end result, or even

finish college. I think back on pretty much any

application and one question they all ask is: How much

schooling? (options) below HS, graduated HS, some

college, graduated college, or completed graduate

school. This question now makes sense. It makes a

difference in someones character to graduate from

college. That person did not give up. They went the

full distance. As an employer, I will now treat this

question and answer with a little more weight. It would

show me if that person is going to be a quitter or if

they will tough it out through rough times.

Message no. 524[Branch from no. 121]
Monday, March 10, 2003 11:13am
Subject Re: Judge by what we finish

I agree with Piper. Anyone can start a job, or anything

else at that matter, what counts is how fast and how

well the jbe is finished. I know a great many of people

that start a job but they never finish it.

To start a job is very easy, but to stay and finish the

task to the end is the hardest part of a job.

I had never thought of the reason why a company would

put a question on education for the fact of just how

much schooling you had. I guess a company can look into

the question and judge a person's character. But how

much is enough.

Message no. 126[Branch from no. 112]
Friday, January 31, 2003 4:31pm
Subject Re: Judge by what we finish

I think that we are judged by what we start because

those accomplishments stand out. They are easier to

remember because of the ways in which we celebrate the

accomplishments. Our society does not celebrate our

attempts at something. We do not celebrate the attempt

to start a new business, but only the opening of that

business. I don't think a person's character should

solely be judged by what they finish or succeed at. I

think that as long as the person tried to accomplish

something they should be recognized, even if it did not

necessarily work out for whatever reason such as timing.

Even if we "fail" at something it does not mean we

didn't give it our best effort and that we cannot learn

from those experiences. I do think our society puts too

much emphasis on the end goal rather than the journey.

Message no. 136[Branch from no. 112]
Monday, February 3, 2003 8:55am
Subject Re: Judge by what we finish

This is regarding "Judge by what we finish":

It's true how people judge others by what we finish, but

it's not fair to say that we are failers (or not

recognized) if we start something and don't finish it.

A lot of people try, others do give up, but when asked

flat out questions like, "Did you graduate from high

school/college?" are bias questions.

Some people are not given opportunities that others may

have (due to money issues or personal problems) and when

you judge people solely on what they have accomplish

doesn't necessarily give you a good overview of how the

person is. But, I (myself) do occasionally judge people

based on what they have done, it's hard not to.

Message no. 156[Branch from no. 112]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 3:21pm
Subject Re: Judge by what we finish

Great website that you found. It was short but right to

the point. I particularly liked this quote: 'Hectic days

infect us with amnesia of action. Despite our certain

knowledge of constant and diligent effort, we have the

sense we've fallen further behind. ' It is so true that

everything we do is measured followed by a judgement of

what we finish. In a Utopia there is no judgement, and I

think that the world as a whole should work towards

that. One way to start would be being thankful, if you

are thankful at all times you are not looking for the

'finish' of yourself or anyone, only "celebrating" the

present moment.

Message no. 256[Branch from no. 112]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:18am
Subject Re: Judge by what we finish

It is true that society judges us by what we finish.

That is because it is visible with celebration and often

times...boasting. Hardly anyone actually looks at the

work that is done to actually get a product finished.

We take that for granted. I think that when judging

something, we should look at it from beginning to end.

How hard did the person work on something? How much time

and effort did they put into to it? That's what makes

the outcome most rewarding. My aerobics instructor told

me, "Give yourself credit for coming to class in the

first place. It's half the battle getting there".

That's true. It takes a lot to start something, stick

with it, and following through.

Message no. 197
Thursday, February 6, 2003 10:48pm
Subject "All's well that ends well."

In this search, I simply tried to find something about

the topic, „Judged by what we finish.š I used the term

"judged by what we finish" I found one article with the

Google search engine.

http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:eTufSQQY_0IC:www.gracechurchwi.org/pastors_pen/pp111002.doc+judged+by+what+we+finish+&hl=ja&ie=UTF-8

This article introduces the remarkable story of a

world-class concert pianist, Byron Janis, who was

diagnosed with arthritis. Within a short time this

concert pianist saw arthritis quickly spread to all his

fingers, however he never gave up. Instead, through

hard work and sheer determination, Byron Janis was able

to continue his career. He became active in

fund-raising for the Arthritis Foundation and still

plays the piano. Through this story the author of this

article points out that „this pianist is a powerful

reminder to us that it is not enough to start well. We

must also end well. It is easy to begin well but the

true measure of our spirituality is how we end.š This

topic, „judged by what we finishš reminds me of the

Japanese proverb, „All‚s well that ends well.š

Message no. 209[Branch from no. 197]
Friday, February 7, 2003 12:09pm
Subject Re: "All's well that ends well."

Emiko, I think you found a great article that

illustrates how people are judged by what the finish or

how they end.

Mr. Janis has an inspirational story that showed how he

was judged at the end, after continuing playing the

piano and not giving up. He would have been judged

unfairly or in a poor light if he did not continue to do

so and just let the arthritis ruin his career.

I think this article also shows how perseverence and

dedication can overcome situational problems. The

display of these qualities definitely make overcoming

obstacles and accomplishing goals more rewarding and

highly recognized and praised by others.

Message no. 260[Branch from no. 197]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:39am
Subject Re: "All's well that ends well."

I read the article that you posted and it was very

moving! I agree with the concept that we are judged by

what we finish, but at the same time aren't we also

judged by what we don't finish? I think we are judged by

others constantly, whether you finish what you start or

not may just determine how they judge you. People who

finish difficult tasks such as graduate school,

producing a blockbuster or writing a best seller are

veiwed successful. Theos people who start something like

college, a sports team or job, then quit are likly to be

viewed as failures. Too many imes you hear of someone

with good intentions (often during election time, thoes

intentions give people hope. When they are not followed

through with the critism can be more over whelming then

the success of the project might have been. My

advise...When you start something new, keep it to

yourself until you accomplish it. That way you can

bypass the critism if you quit midway through, and if

you succed then you can reep the benifits.

Message no. 216
Friday, February 7, 2003 4:16pm
Subject a society of proverbs and perceptions

The specific topic in this section I was looking for was

how people feel when they are judged by how much they

achieve. I used the yahoo search engine. The words I

used were „success criticism.š I had some trouble

finding this because the internet is full of companies

so when success is typed in hundreds of hits are mostly

companies telling about success stories.

http://seniors-choice.tripod.com/proverbs.htm

This site I found was full of proverbs that people use.

These proverbs are the very basic values that our

society has. Our society judges everything we do it.

We are essentially a product of our success. Those who

found a way to be successful young will probably be

successful for their whole life. Those who haven‚t

figured it out will never. Don't ask your friends what

you yourself can do. This is a saying that shows how

you should rely on yourself and not others. Your

success should be your own and no one else‚s. another

of the proverbs from the site is To be tested is good.

The challenged life maybe the best therapist. This shows

how one must learn and adapt in our changing society.

To be able to overcome problems equals to a life of

success. Every grade we get is a matter of success and

failure. Sometimes it‚s all a matter of perception and

opinion.

Message no. 381[Branch from no. 216]
Friday, February 21, 2003 2:00pm
Subject Re: a society of proverbs and perceptions

I'm a fan of this saying:

"it is better to have loved and lost, than to never have

loved at all."

How can we truly know the value of our success, if we

have never failed. No one can suceed all the time and

if they do, I would doubt if they were attempting

anything new. We have to accept that we may fail

sometimes, through no fault of our own, and that we may

be judged by it. In the case of love, you can't make

someone love you or keep them if they have stopped

loving you. You must accept your loss, which some may

view as failure, and move on. Our successes and

failures aren't only judged by society, we judge them

too and in the long run what we believe is more

important. So learn from the failures which will

inevitably occur and let them aid your future sucess.

Message no. 470[Branch from no. 381]
Monday, March 3, 2003 3:03pm
Subject Re: a society of proverbs and perceptions

I'm fan of this saying; "life is like throwing dice." We

never know what it will be, sometimed we get 6,

sometimes we get 1, so do not be so shaked by the

result.

"The die is cast". Things have started, wether we like

it or not, we will get the result. Every time I think of

those saying, I'm amazed bt the wisdom of our ancestors

who said them a thousand and thousand of years ago.

Message no. 476[Branch from no. 216]
Monday, March 3, 2003 10:59pm
Subject Re: a society of proverbs and perceptions

Hello. Here are some proverbs/quotes that I have posted on my bedroom door.

The poster is called..The road to success is always under construction. Here are my favorites:

1. One who lacks courage to start has already finished

2. Have a backbone not a wishbone

3. There can be no rainbow without a cloud and a storm

4. Minds are like parachutes--They only function when open

5. Birds have bills too and they keep on singing

6. Procrastination is the theif of time

 

Message no. 937[Branch from no. 216]
Thursday, May 1, 2003 12:25pm
Subject Re: a society of proverbs and perceptions

This is in reply to the first message posted. I liked

the seniors webpage that you found. I particularly liked

this Chinese proverb: Tell me and I forget. Show me and

I remember. Involve me and I understand.

These people are getting out of high school, and imagine

how much more we understand being jundged by what we

finish, and the growth of this understanding is

continuous. I am sure when were are older we will hold

so much more value. I kind of see being judged by what

we finish in a positive light of value.

Message no. 263
Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:18pm
Subject What if we don't finish?

I originally wanted to research the topic of "judged by

what we finish", but when I started searching I came

across the thought of "What happens if we don't finish?"

I found this topic more interesting. I used Yahoo as my

search engine and pluged in the words:judged by not

following through, following through. The only problems

I faced was which matches to read. I chose this one:

http://www.dailycoachingtip.com/Tips/Reviews/followingthrough.htm

I found that a book review of a book called "Following

Through: A Revolutionary New Model for Finishing

Whatever You Start" by Steve Levinson, PhD and Pete C.

Greider, MEd.The review says that the book explains a

theory on why people don't automatically follow through

with what they start. The author says our nervous system

plays a large part in our failures. I found it

interesting that they said that we're not designed to

follow through and always do the right thing. The book

sounds very interesting from what I read of the review.

Basically the book explains why we don't follow through

and then breaks it down to teach the reader how to

overcome not following through step by step. I may just

go out and purchase the book, it may be enlightning!

Message no. 281[Branch from no. 263]
Friday, February 14, 2003 9:38am
Subject Re: What if we don't finish?

i like the sound of this book. It sounds like it could

really help people become better at following through

with their tasks in everyday life. Even if we are

designed to not finish what we start we can be taught

it. I think learning to follow through and finish at an

early age. As children we tend to imitate our parents

behviors. If they make an effort to finish what they

begin the children will follow if not they get stuck in

the same rut as their parents and the cycle begins all

over again.

Message no. 651[Branch from no. 281]
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:43pm
Subject Re: What if we don't finish?

i have to agree with stefan. i know that i often have

problems following through. and i need to either be

ULTRA interested...or have some MEGA self-discipline. a

book on why it happens could provide the right

information on how to prevent it...

Message no. 313
Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:03pm
Subject Finishing what we started

I searched for topics about finishing what we have

started. I used the search engine http://www.skworm.com

using the exact phrase: finishing what we start. I

had a hard time looking for topics about judged by what

we finish, so I used a different phrase and found this

great article:

http://www.stlukes-hou.org/Sermons/JM050502.htm

entitled "Finishing what we start". It is actually a

sermon from Dr. James W. Moore. In this sermon Dr.

Moore talks about many people who have accomplished

their goals by following through and finishing what they

have started. It's interesting to read about all these

amazing people and realizing that if they had just

decided to give up we might have never heard of Albert

Einstein, Franklin Roosevelt, and Helen Keller just to

name a few. People are definitely admired more for

crossing the finish line last then not crossing it at

all.

Message no. 469[Branch from no. 313]
Sunday, March 2, 2003 8:18pm
Subject Re: Finishing what we started

I thought that this was a very good article for me

because there are many things in my life that I want to

accomplish and do. I graduate in August and I want to

go to Medical School, but I feel discouraged about the

competition. Even though I have already taken most of

the pre-med courses, I am hesitant to finish because I

am afraid I will fail. But after reading this article,

it gives me a little more faith and motivation to keep

on going and not to give up what I have already started.

Message no. 441
Friday, February 28, 2003 2:36am
Subject Be Careful of How to Judge People

I typed "judge others" on Google. For this search I

tried to find the article about negative side of judging

people. I had no problem finding the following story

titled "Be Careful of How to Judge People."

A lady in a faded gingham dress and her husband, dressed

in a homespun threadbare suit walked timidly without an

appointment into the Harvard University President's

outer office. "We want to see the President," the man

said softly. The secretary could tell people like they

had no business at Harvard and probably didn't even

deserve to be in Cambridge. She frowned, and said

"He'll be busy all day, "We'll wait," the lady replied.

For hours, the secretary ignored them, hoping that the

couple would finally become discouraged and go away.

They didn't and the secretary grew frustrated and

finally decided to disturb the President. "Maybe if

they just see you for a few minutes, they'll leave," she

told him. He sighed in exasperation and nodded. Someone

of his importance obviously didn't have the time to

spend with them, but he detested gingham dresses and

homespun suits cluttering up his outer office.

The President, stern-faced with dignity, strutted toward

the couple. The lady told him that they had a son who

attended Harvard for one year, but about a year ago, he

was accidentally killed. So they would like to erect a

memorial to him, somewhere on campus. The President was

shocked and said, "We can't put up a statue for every

person who attended Harvard and died.š "Oh, no," the

lady explained quickly. "We don't want a statue, a

building to Harvard." The president glanced at the

gingham dress and homespun suit, then exclaimed, "A

building! Do you have any earthly idea how much a

building costs? We have over seven and a half million

dollars in the physical plant at Harvard."

For a moment the lady was silent. And the lady turned

to her husband and said quietly, "Is that all it costs

to start a university? Why don't we just start our

own?" Her husband nodded. And Mr. and Mrs. Leland

Stanford walked away, traveling to Palo Alto, California

where they established the university that bears their

name, a memorial to a son that Harvard no longer cared

about.

www.ecclesia.org/truth/judge.html

Message no. 701[Branch from no. 441]
Friday, April 4, 2003 7:39pm
Subject Re: Be Careful of How to Judge People

I thought this was an awesome story! I have learned

that some of the people that get the cold shoulder or

are treated like crap really have a lot of wisdom to

share. I have also noticed that a lot of people with

"book intelligence" lack people skills. I think you can

never judge a book by its cover. I have been in the

place of being judged at first glace and I think those

experiences have helped me appreciate people's

differences. I think until you have been wrongly judged

it is easy to just call them like you see them. This

story definitely illustrates that you can not just judge

by what you think is the norm. It is easy for many

people to buy into stereotypes and assume to know how

people should act but the beauty of being a human is

that we are different and sometimes go against the norm.

Message no. 449
Friday, February 28, 2003 1:08pm
Subject Judged by what we finish

My search for this topic was very frustrating and I only

found two useful articles. I searched www.google.com,

www.yahoo.com, www.aol.com, www.infogrid.com with the

keywords „judged by what we finish.š

The first article can be found at

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:eTufSQQY_0IC:www.gracechurchwi.org/pastors_pen/pp111002.doc+judged+by+what+we+finish&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

This is an example that the person was recognized and

remembered for what they finished in life. This article

is about a piano player that continued to play the piano

even though he had the pain of arthritis to work

through. This article takes a spiritual approach to

saying that we need to persevere and accomplishing our

goals is the important thing to do.

The second website can be found at

http://www.jackfertig.com/archive-mackay.html

This website offers a lot of sayings about success that

address many other topics that we are supposed to

research.

Message no. 496
Friday, March 7, 2003 9:08am
Subject Only If We Finish

I looked in msn.com under the phrase "judged by what we

finish" and found a link that said "Truth Picks" from

www.technobility.com/docs/tppage179.htm.

Think link talked about how we are judged by what we

finish and not by what we start. We only get the reward

or compliment for the finished product, not what we had

started no matter how brilliant it is. As the author

stated, "We measure distances with a ruler, time by the

ticks of a clock and small steps of progress by tasks

scratched off our list".

Message no. 700
Friday, April 4, 2003 7:29pm
Subject Judged and judged again

I used MSN, key words Judged by what we finish and came

across a few articles easily. The first was at

http://www.gracechurchwi.org/pastors_pen/pparch02/pp111002.html

This article is about Byron Janis a concert pianist who

had arthritis that quickly spread to all his fingers,

and the joints of nine of them fused. Janis fought back.

He worked long hours to change his technique. Instead of

concentrating on his weaknesses he learned how to use

what strengths he had .Through hard work and sheer

determination, Byron Janis was able to continue his

career. He maintained a full concert schedule for twelve

years without anyone suspecting. He is currently active

in fund-raising for the Arthritis Foundation and still

plays the piano. He credits faith, and hope, and will

for his success and says, "I have arthritis, but it

doesn‚t have me."

For the second part I wanted to find articles that felt

we are not judged by what we finish. I used MSN key

words Not judged by what we finish and what we start is

important. At first I could not find any supportive

articles and some with scriptures on judgment. Other

articles I found related to sports teams having a good

start at their season or the Head start program.

Message no. 717[Branch from no. 700]
Saturday, April 5, 2003 9:58pm
Subject Re: Judged and judged again

I remember hearing this story about the concert pianists

fight with arthritis, it was quite uplifting, especialy

since I am a pianist myself and I would prolly just cry

in a corner for a few months if I got arthritis any time

soon.

Message no. 726
Sunday, April 6, 2003 2:13pm
Subject self efficacy, following through

i found this interesting site that illustrates a little

of what we talk about in 409b...

http://www.codcompass.com/html/nf/FollowingThrough.html

here, the author talks about how to take control of a

situation, and how to be successful. a main point that

he makes is that once you do get control, follow

through...and then relating it back to itself in...if

you dont' follow through...you'll never get control!

neat stuff...

Message no. 806
Sunday, April 13, 2003 4:58pm
Subject We are judged by our accomplishments

For this posting, I was searching to see if we are

indeed judged by our accomplishments as opposed to what

we begin but can't/don't finish. I used google with the

search terms "judged accmplishment(s)", "judged start",

"judged begin", "criticized not finish" and slight

variations.

I really didn't find all that much, but what I did find

makes a good point. The only search that had many

relevant results was "judged accomplishment(s)". Over

and over the short descriptions the websites gave spoke

of being judged by accomplishment, from cooking awards

to academic scholarships (with many examples of the

second).

What I didn't find is of equal interest. When I

searched several variations for being judged by what you

start, I found no relevant results. This suggests that

we indeed aren't judged by what we begin.

So it seems the evidence in one area and lack of

evidence in another point to the assertion that we are

judged by what we finish. This coincides with common

sense, in that it's only natural to flaunt and cheer

accomplishment. No one puts on their resume that they

dropped out of college, it's all about getting a degree.

People should be judged by what they finish because

what they accomplish sets them apart from the rest.

Message no. 938
Thursday, May 1, 2003 12:30pm
Subject Lyrics

I found some good lyrics to this song written by a kid.

It is about wasting life, but he is not ready for the

finish line beause he doesn't want to be remembered that

way. I was looking up "finsih line" under search in

msn.com

http://www.lyricscafe.com/k/kweller_ben/004.htm

It is a good view of being judged by what we finish.

Here the author relizes it and doesn't want to finish

that wasted way, so he is not ready for the finish line

yet. Here is finish line is positive. But if you think

about it to some drug users, the finish line is death.

The ultimate judgement.

Message no. 988
Monday, May 5, 2003 10:34pm
Subject keeping promises

I wanted to see if we are judged by keeping our

promises. I searched on http://www.google.com using the

phrase: judged by keeping our promises. The search was

no problem at all.

I found this article:

http://www.adbull.com/marketing_and_branding/personal.html

This article is about your personal label meaning

yourself. This is a marketing article about improving

your self by keeping promises. It really stresses that

to be a person of good character means that you have to

keep your word.

Message no. 1039
Thursday, May 8, 2003 10:23am
Subject "Well Done!"

I first used the InfoGrid Search Engine by typing in the

words „judged by what we finishš. It didn‚t hit any

results relevant to what I wanted. I switched to Google

and typed in the same words. It came up with a lot of

inspirational quotes, so I searched for the third time

using the keywords „finishing what we startš with

Google, and a lot of related articles were yielded this

time.

In his article „Perseverance: A Key to Finishing What We

Startš (http://www.washingtonag.net/ULTIMAT4.htm), Jerry

Scott started off with the famous fable of the hare and

tortoise to illustrate how important it is to finish

what we start, regardless of how impressive we start.

Although some say that having a good start means you‚re

half way done, you don‚t get completely evaluated until

you‚ve completed the task. The starting point,

impressive or humble, does not entirely tell what will

happen in the end, but the finishing line precisely

reflects what has happened in the course of running the

race.

11. KICKED WHILE DOWN

Message no. 296
Friday, February 14, 2003 4:22pm
Subject sprialing out of control

As I was searching in google for my discussion topic I

typed in mental health and self efficacy to try to find

what happens when people start to spiral out of control

mentally. I found a few sites that ended up being

chapters in a book I chose chapter 5 because I was the

most relevant.

http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap5/chap5h.htm

It starts off by talking about having self confidence

in your coping skills this is showing self efficacy

because it has to do with being able to control yourself

and your emotions. According to the article it talks

how each person is an individual and each situation

affects them differently based on their perceptions. We

must try to understand how our perception works and be

able to control it or change how it affects us. People

with a higher self efficacy are able to do this. Those

with a really low self efficacy feel they have no

control. As they feel this they become more reactive to

certain situations and then they feel even more out of

control. They begin to spiral downwards which begins to

affect everything they do. They get to the point where

no longer they are able to help themselves. We must

learn to reward ourselves each time we are able to

change the environment around us which will give us more

confidence for the next situation. One step at a time

is all it takes.

Message no. 356
Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:30am
Subject Self-Help Books

I had a hard time searching for this topic because there

didn't seem to be anything specific using these search

terms alone. I used atleast three different search

engines and didn't find anything really relevant to this

topic. When I searched under Google, all I got were

references made to celebraties like Mariah Carey who was

"kicked while she was down," referring to bad movie

reviews of her first feature film and her physical and

mental collapse.

When I searched under Vivisimo, I used the search terms

"when the going gets tough." The only thing I found

that seemed relevant was this url

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1886330956/inktomi-bkasin-20

It has a list of books offering pearls of wisdom to

someone who is experiencing a tough situation. Some

books include "The Resilience Factor," "Tapping your

Inner Strenght,"& "The Survivor Personality."

Message no. 377[Branch from no. 356]
Friday, February 21, 2003 1:14pm
Subject Re: Self-Help Books

I also had a more difficult time with this search. I

found a lot of lyrics from songs talking about being

kicked while down and someone special helping them up.

But this is probably the most accurate measure of this

study, because I believe most songs have a personal

background to them. People sing about their lives and

up & downs. I also found books with these references.

This was a harder search than the other topics. I also

found many references to sports. Teams that have been

kicked while down and then have made a comeback. And

the only psychology stuff I found was from our own Dr.

James class.

Message no. 397[Branch from no. 356]
Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:54pm
Subject Re: Self-Help Books

i agree with you, this is a very hard topic to search.

What i found was that you must search on the positive

side then relate that to what happens when people keep

giving up all the time. Alot of the things i found

showed what to do when you hit rock bottom. Ignoring

these hints or just believing nothing will go your way

will keep you there and there is no escape.

Message no. 653[Branch from no. 397]
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:53pm
Subject Re: Self-Help Books

jumping on the band wagon...

but i do want to comment on the self-help book topic. i

really think that they are a load of crap. i really do.

this may just be me, but if you can not motivate

yourself and make the internal changes necessary in your

life to affect the outcome and pick yourself up...you

will only find yourself back down on the floor.

pick yourself up, take control of your life...make the

changes necessary to YOURSELF...dont let someone who is

NOT you tell you how to do it...do it for yourself.

only you have the power, knowledge and love that it

takes to take care of YOU

whoa...i should write a self help book...

Message no. 855[Branch from no. 356]
Friday, April 18, 2003 4:06pm
Subject Reply to "Self-Help Books"

This topic is a hard topic to research on--like

what kind of things are we supposed to be looking for in

the first place?

Now for my view of all these self-help chicken soup

for your problems type books. I think they have there

uses. I guess they can be helpful as a source of

guidance but I think there is a danger of creating a too

idealized sense of yourself in that you will never

measure up.

Self-help books are kinda like a more personalized

bible. You know--live this way/do this like this/force

yourself to think this way. All a bunch of crap.

Message no. 375
Friday, February 21, 2003 1:06pm
Subject Kicked while down

I knew this was going to be a little harder to search

for. This search needs to use phrases which there is

always less information you find. I used google &

yahoo. I used the phrases "kicked while down", "helped

you up" & "down in the dumps". I got almost the exact

same thing using both search engines. I found a lot of

sport references. And I also found a lot of religious

references.

Here is a site to help ministers who have been "kicked

while down". This site was meant to help ministers that

feel that they have been kicked while down or just feel

the need to lift themselves out of the bad situation or

fram e of mind.

http://newjerusalemmin.com/page7.htm

Here is another religious website to help people when

they are down.

http://netministries.org/see/charmin/CM05920 I knew I

would find a lot of religious stuff but that is not what

I was looking for.

I also found a website that was made by younger adults

and possibly by teenagers. It is called "Shit Crew".

It is a group of kids who got sick of being kicked while

down so they made a club/website to tell the whole world

how they feel. What is funny a read what they "stand

for" and I remember as a teenager feeling the same type

of things and wanting to do something about it. Which

this is probably a good concept. Some of the things

they say is "we stand for us", "our voices heard",

"stand up for the little guy", & "fight oppression".

This all sounds great, but you should be intelligent to

conquer these issues. And just counting quickly I found

13 spelling errors. Now in this day and age there

should be no reason for this to happen because the

computers now days correct spelling as well as grammar.

If you want people to support you and treat you as a

legitimate cause fighter than you need to be able to

show some intelligence. Spelling errors discredit this

organization in my opinion.

http://www.angelfire.com/id/sk8drpunk/ShitCrew.html

I do believe that people do remember who has helped them

or who has kicked them while being down. It is funny to

think back and the main people I remember in my life. I

either remember who made my life much more difficult or

who has helped me out of bad situations. Just from

personal experience I can believe that this statement is

true: "People always remember 2 things: who kicked you

when you were down, and who helped you up."

Message no. 431[Branch from no. 375]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:05pm
Subject Re: Kicked while down

Well, I don't know that an idea should be discounted

merely because of its presentation. Certainly a message

is better received when it is presented well, but to

dismiss one because of spelling errors or grammatical

mistakes might incline one to dismiss a good deal more

than this one organisation.

Perhaps an appropriate reason to dismiss this particular

group is that its message seems more like gang rhetoric

than a plea for social equality or some such.

Message no. 399
Sunday, February 23, 2003 5:14pm
Subject memories of hurt and help

I wanted to do my search on how we remember those who

have kicked us while we were down, and those who have

helped us up. I got lots of results that weren't

exactly what I was looking for, but I managed to find

three articles.

The first article I found was using

http://www.skworm.com and I used the phrase:memories of

helping and hurting others. The article is from the

Daily Herald Column in 1998.

http://www.lib.sk.ca/booksinfo/DailyHerald/DH1998/dh980801.html

The article is about how dwelling on painful memories of

the past can hinder your happiness in the present and

future. There is a part in the article that states that

you shouldn't forget the past, but just put it behind

you and know that it's over now.

For the second article I used the search engine

http://www.searchbug.com using the phrase:hurtful people

and helpful people.

http://www.cloudtownsend.com/Articles/pick_safe.htm This

article which stems from Biblical teachings discusses

how you can pick safe people in your dating,

friendships, and spiritual relationships. Safe people

are those that you can trust and are ensured that won't

hurt you. The article also suggests that some people

may choose hurtful people in these relationships out of

weakness in their own character.

For the last result I used the search

engine:http://www.skworm.com using the phrase:"we will

not forget those who helped us." This

website:http://www.geocities.com/fadeband2001/ actually

closed. The website's owner wrote a thank you page to

all who've helped the website. This shows that you

definitely don't forget the one's that helped you.

These articles share a common bond that people will

remember those who hurt and those who have helped you.

It's human nature to hold on to these memories, but we

must eliminate the hurtful, painful memories, and

remember the good ones.

Message no. 510[Branch from no. 399]
Saturday, March 8, 2003 10:16pm
Subject Re: memories of hurt and help

I think that one reason that we do this is because each

of these incidences hold a stong emotional response.

When we have strong emotions tied to an event, we seem

more likely to remember that event. When we are already

down and someone does something that seems to make

things worse, I think we are likely to remember this

because we already have a strong emotional tie to the

situation. We also may loose trust in these people and

that is remembered so that we try to harm ourselves from

hurt in the future. When someone helps us, this may

seem like a fairly unusual event so that we remember

this person, and may want to keep them in mind as true

friends or examples of how we want to live our own life.

Message no. 516[Branch from no. 399]
Sunday, March 9, 2003 6:01pm
Subject Re: memories of hurt and help

Regarding Marie's search:

I agree with the first article. You shouldn't forget

the past, but you should also not live in the past. I

think for the people who has kicked us down while we

were down just makes us a better person in that we try

harder to prove them wrong. But for some people, they

will stay down and not try to pick themselves back up.

I guess it depends how you handle yourself and how much

you believe what other people say about you. For me,

you can say what ever you want to me, but if I don't buy

it, then there's no way someone can stop me from doing

what I want to do or be.

But then again, you will never forget those who have

kicked you down while you were down. And also remember

who has helped you up.

Message no. 786[Branch from no. 399]
Friday, April 11, 2003 11:42am
Subject Re: memories of hurt and help

It is true that we remember those who stuck with you and

those who left you when you're going through your

toughest times. Those hard times will always stay with

you because it is what that shapes you. If you remember

those times, of course you can never forget those that

helped you or hurt you. We simply can't forget things

that happen, but we sure can move on.

Message no. 480
Tuesday, March 4, 2003 10:50am
Subject Song Lyrics

I looked for a while on the internet under this topic. I

found that it was a little harder than the rest. I

looked under Google.com first because people have been

telling me that it is a good search engine, and typed in

'kicked while down.' I found a few unrealated articles.

I then continued the search the next day under msn.com

looking for lyrics and 'kicked while down.' I found a

song by Three Doors Down that I didn't like. So I wanted

to put it off so that I could think about the search,

and I thought of Jack Johnson. I wanted to talk about

his song "Loosing Hope" because it is a meaningful song

that has helped me get through some tough times in the

last year. Today I typed in 'Jack Johnson Lyrics' and

found exactly what I wanted to write about. They can be

found at letssingit.com at

http://www.letssingit.com/?http://www.letssingit.com/jack-johnson-7s4jg.html.

Jack is singing about loosing hope, and there are about

three different stanza's where he gives a short summary

of someone loosing hope. His ultamate message is

'Loosing hope is easy, if your only friend is gone, and

every time you look around it all just seems to change'

and 'hanging on is easy when you have a friend to call,

your not the only one who is afraid of change.' Perhaps

you can kick yourself while down if you think

negatively, and if you reach out for help and think

positive, anyone is willing to help you back up.

In this stanza he is talking about someone who got

something stolen from them which is bad, but on the

other hand perhaps you should assume that there is a

reason for everything, and that shouldn't get you down:

'Well somebody's something was left in the room And now

that it's gone, well of course we assume Somebody else

needed something so bad They took everything somebody

had'

I interpret this stanza to be you giving to the hopeless

thinking that you can because you are above there realm

of reasoning. The thing getting this homeless down is

perhaps alcohol. So even material things can kick you

while you are down. Also being underestimated. So much

is said in his few lines:

'Feed the fool a piece of the pie Make a fool of his

system, make a fool of his mind Give him bottles of lies

and maybe he'll find His place in heaven cause he might

just die'

And the chorus is the grounding for this research. It is

so well said by Jack Johnson:

'Losing hope is easy When your only friend is gone And

every time you look around Well it all, it all, just

seems to change

Hanging on is easy When you've got a friend to call When

nothing's making sense at all You're not the only one

who's afraid of change'

Message no. 527
Tuesday, March 11, 2003 12:45pm
Subject We remember what happened more recently

The New York Times online seemed like a good place to

conduct this search because extreme cases of kindness or

meanness are newsworthy, human-interest stories. My

search phrases in the beginning were „kicked when down,š

but I found many sports related stories. I then changed

it to „good Samaritans and grudges.š I found some

touching stories that made me stop and think about my

own actions

Doug Jones was using his jeep to pull stranded motorists

out of a ditch in a snowstorm. While this makes a

reader stop and think that there are still good people

in the world, the story takes a turn. A police officer

pulled over behind him to make other drivers aware that

Jones was towing people so there was not an accident.

While the cop sat there, he wrote out a ticket for 117

dollars to Jones for acting hazardously. When I read

that I imagined Jones‚ feeling of being kicked down for

doing a good thing and I felt upset. The supporters of

Jones are protesting the ticket and have offered to pay

it for him.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Samaritans-ticket.html

As I thought about the New York Times article that I

found, I remembered something I learned in a Social

Psychology. One factor in how we process complex and

conflicting information is the timing of that

information. The primacy effect is when the first

impression of something is the strongest and we compare

later occurrences to it. In the case of impressions and

moods that can change over time, the recency effect,

whatever occurred more recently, is stronger. Recency

effect is also stronger over longer periods of time when

first impressions may fade.

Wiggins, James A, Wiggins, Beverly B., Vander Zanden,

James. Social Psychology. McGraw-Hill Inc. New York,

1994.

When examining this topic in light of primacy and

recency effects, it seems that the recency effect would

take precedence and have the strongest effect on whether

we remember who helped us up or who kicked us down.

Therefore, if the most recent strong interaction we had

was someone helping us, that is what we would remember.

Yes, there are other factors to consider, but all else

held equal, this theory would prevail.

Message no. 546[Branch from no. 527]
Friday, March 14, 2003 1:18pm
Subject Re: We remember what happened more recently

Just reading your post makes me understand a little bit

why we are becoming an increasingly hostile society

because those people who are "kicked while down" are

done so for doing good deeds. No wonder why people

aren't as friendly as they used to be. Then again there

are those few that truly believe that even if you are

"kicked while down" that there is still the motivation

to keep helping people...i admire those people because I

don't think I could ever be empathetic to someone who

has been nasty to me.

Message no. 540
Friday, March 14, 2003 3:15am
Subject People who helped and hurt us

Upon reading other students' posts regarding this

research topic, I knew that I might run into the same

difficulty in finding relevant articles. However, I

still wanted to see if I could find articles that

showed that people remember those who helped and hurt

them.

Instead of going to google.com like I have done for the

past several weeks, I decided to try http://vivismo.com

upon reading about it in last semester's student

research reports. (Check it out and see if you would

want to use it for future searches.)

It did take awhile and did take a number of search

phrases to find something relevant. However, the search

engine listed the results by categories, making it

easier to focus on the categories I thought were more

relevant. Some of the search terms that were not very

successful included "remembering discouragement" and

"forgiving those who hurt us, remembering those who

helped us." The most useful phrase was "people remember

those who have helped and hurt us." From it, this was

the most relevant article:

http://www.junchaosu.com/murphy.htm The author talks

about how she encountered two nearly-fatal accidents.

She goes on to say that people tend to highlight

negative memories rather than positive ones and that

"We remember those who have left a scar on us a lot

better than those who have brought light to our hearts.

Most of us don't have problems naming those who have

hurt us in the past, but very few of us can name those

who have helped us."

I disagree with her statement of very few of us not

remembering those who have helped us. Sure, we may not

know the name of the stranger who helped us fix a flat

tire or help us find something in the supermarket, but

in more profound instances, we remember those who have

helped us; teachers that served as role models,

teammates that gave us advice on how to become better

players, friends who attended a funeral and supported

us through our grief. Nonetheless, it just goes to show

that people remember those who have helped and hurt

them.

Message no. 548[Branch from no. 540]
Friday, March 14, 2003 1:53pm
Subject spelling error in link

If you happened to click on the link for the search

engine I recommended, sorry, I missed an extra "i" in

the word and therefore it would send you to a

meaningless site. I meant for you to check out the

search engine: http://vivisimo.com

Happy searching.

Message no. 665
Thursday, April 3, 2003 6:00pm
Subject Kicking yourself while down

I'm researching the topic "kicked while down", more

specifically kicking yourself while down. I wanted to

see what can happen to people who are "down" (depressed,

low self-esteem) and don't do anything to improve their

state, or maybe what they can do. I started off using

Dr. James's favorite search engine: Google, and had no

problems. I used the search terms: low self esteem;

effects of low self esteem. The search terms were

successful. I choose to use these web site to gather my

information from:

http://www.sedona.com/benefit_information/causes_low_self_esteem.htm

http://www.coping.org/found/low.htm#Negative

I found in my research that people kick themselves while

they are down and there can be severe consequences if

immediate action is not taken. I found that having a low

self esteem may lead to problems such as: Insecurity

about who you are and lack of belief in yourself,

inability to open yourself to others and inability to

trust others, problems in establishing intimacy with

others and problems in interpersonal relationships,

chronically affected by the need for approval and

acceptance by others; affected by the fear of

abandonment, fear of rejection, and disapproval,

addictive or compulsive behavior. E.g., alcoholism,

chemical dependency, food, gambling, sex, excitement,

money, shopping, smoking. That is just to name a few

problems that are related to long term low self esteem

which is also closely related to depression. Having low

self-esteem can be actually considered an illness. So as

you can see by not taking action, your only hurting

yourself more or „kicking yourself while down.š There

are a number of ways to cope with being „Down.š One of

the websites suggests therapy, counseling, or a third

option called Sedona Method. Of course the website is

that of the Sedona Method but it seems quite interesting

as an alternative. The Sedona Method is said to deliver

better and faster results than therapy and counseling.

Supposedly it is a do-it-yourself program, which teaches

you how to use your natural ability to over come low

self-esteem using their audiotape, newsletters and

computer down loads. Personally I think it‚s a quick

moneymaker that takes advantage of the depressed and low

self esteem people of the world, who are looking for

help in the wrong places. My advise: If you have low

self esteem get help before you develop other problems

and when getting help be sure that it‚s from a

professional.

Message no. 920[Branch from no. 665]
Monday, April 28, 2003 5:30pm
Subject Re: Kicking yourself while down

I think most people have some kind of self-esteem issue

more than they want to admit. Take a look at the "normal

people" who buy cars they can't afford and girls who

spend so much on designer bags but can't even aford to

pay their rent. Isn't that a self-esteem issue too.

But how is a person supposed to get help with their

esteem if they're too depressed to even seek help.

That's why it's important to pay close attention to the

people around you and give he badly needed attention hey

deserve.

Message no. 670
on Thursday, April 3, 2003 8:19pm
Subject being kicked? kick back!!

In reasearching this topic, i wasn't sure what to

expect. this is the first time i'm doing this one, and

i didn't find too much on the topic. however, i did

find this interesting article, its more like a list

really, on ways to pick yourself up and get your life in

order.

the link is:

http://www.dreamhigh.com/doc/What%20to%20Do%20When%20You%20are%20Down.doc

there are lots of things in this list that i totally

agree with. taking time to relax, prioritorize, plan

and then act. however, the thing i think that it should

add is to stop feeling sorry for yourself. the biggest

part, of the people who i've seen that feel "down" about

something, is that they cant get up because they wont

let themselves. they're too busy feeling sorry for

themselves that they forget that its not helping. if

there's one thing i can't stand, its watching someone

sit there, and expect the world to pitty them. people

die, things go wrong, life sucks sometimes...get over

it!

main point...no matter how much you plan, organize, and

make strategies to get out of a slump, it wont work if

you're still feeling sorry for yourself!!

Message no. 752[Branch from no. 670]
Tuesday, April 8, 2003 3:17pm
Subject Re: being kicked? kick back!!

I agree with you that no matter what you do in life you

still can't get anywhere if you still feel sorry for

yourselves. We must have faith in ourselves. If we

don't. then who will? I totally agree with you on this.

A mind is a powerful thing and we do things that we

believe we are capable of doing. If we are feeling

"down", then how will we even begin to accomplish things

in life. A negative person with a negative outlook on

life doesn't usually get much done. One's attitude

about their self-efficacy really can determine their

future successes and goal accomplishments.

Message no. 771[Branch from no. 752]
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 9:19pm
Subject Re: being kicked? kick back!!

Feeling down is normal but there are ways to utilze this

negative energy and make something positive of it.

People who are down on themselves usually use coping

startegies that involve tools to release anxiety and

stress. By utilizing anxiety one can create a counter

point which will allow you to redirect that negative

energy into a more productive, usable form of energy.

It is like when you're down and someone does something

to top it all off. You get sad, or upset with that

person, but then what to do. you can utilize the

feelings of anger and angst to plot revenge or to say to

yourself that you're gonna prove to that person that you

can do whatever it was that they said you couldn't do.

Both highly effective ways in which you can turn that

frown uspide down.

Message no. 753
Tuesday, April 8, 2003 3:29pm
Subject Dream high!

I looked for ways of what to do when you are down. I

used www.google.com for my search. The search words I

used was 'kicked while down'....and I came across a

fairly good website:

http://www.dreamhigh.com/doc/What%20to%20Do%20When%20You%20are%20Down.doc

It basically goes over a list of things to do when you

are down: 1.Don't panic! Let it happen...being down is a

natural part of life.

2. Admit where you are.

3. Say no to new obligations now...focus on yourself!

4. Read the Bible for 10 minutes each day.

5. Take 5 minutes each day to pray.

6. Take a walk everyday; exercise

7. Ease your cash flow; don't buy unnecessary things

8. Pick up an extra job for cash flow.

9. Clean your home and yard.

10. Take time to connect with people you care about and

love and accept you for who you are.

11. Do well at your job

12. Give sometime to help someone else; volunteer

13. Rent a funny movie!; comedy

14. Invite over some friends for a cookout and cards.

15. Try something new

16. Write 3 affirmations (e.g., I am a strong person) &

read it to yourself everyday

17. Use this down time to think where your life is and

where you want to go with your life.

18. Do not make major decisions when you are down.

19. Create a dream list

20. Now break the 3 most important things on this list

into small steps.

21. Now begin to follow these dreams.

22. add your own....

 

Message no. 989[Branch from no. 753]
Monday, May 5, 2003 10:44pm
Subject Re: Dream high!

I think this list is a great way to get out of feeling

blue. Everyone has their ups and downs and it's

important for us to know what makes us feel better.

Everyone has different ways to cheer themselves up, and

this list gives good suggestions. I think I'll try some

of these suggestions when I'm sad. It's also important

to share with others how we feel so we don't have to

have it all bottled up inside. This way others can also

help cheer you up.

Message no. 840
Wednesday, April 16, 2003 2:28pm
Subject Thats not nice

Using MSN again and the phrase "kicked while down" I had

a difficult time finding an article for this topic.

Looking at the search results, from what I can tell, it

looked like this phrase is commonly used by those on

Wallstreet or those who play sports.

I then rethought the phrase and typed "those that helped

us" and came up with many hits that pertained to

people/organizations who were thanking those that helped

them.

Then I typed " those who kicked us while we were down"

and found articles about Afgani's who claimed they were

kicked while down by US soldiers and articles about he

World Trade Center attack.

I'm beginning to think there is not going to be much on

this topic so I'm just going to state my opinion on

this.

I think by nature people tend to remember most of the

extreme negative events that happen in their lives as

well as the extreme postive things. All I know is that

when things in my life bring me down, I have faith that

it will get better. We have (if we're lucky) good family

members for support, but then they could also be the

cause of bringing us down. I think it's easier to depend

on ourselves for that inner strength to help ourselves

get back up than depending on other's for help.

Message no. 858
Friday, April 18, 2003 4:43pm
Subject Self-Help

I started this search with multiple search engines

as well as multiple search terms in order to figure out

where I wanted to go with all of this. Finally I got a

lead and pursued the "effectiveness of self-help".

The theory of self help according to an article

Understanding Between You and Me

(http://menatlhelp.net/psyhelp/chap1/chap1d.html), is

that human behavior is learned; therefore new behavior

can be learned. Self-help authors try to use the power

of suggestion to increase the effectiveness of there

methods as well as the profits they earn.

There are a few troubles that self-helpers run into

during the 5 to 6 tries that most make towards

self-improvment. One trouble is that they will

oversimplify things--that is thinking that one book or

one therapy session can solve problems that might be

very complex. Another problem is what is called the

False Hope Syndrome. This syndrome occurs when goals

are placed to high--setting up for failure.

Advice to those who are trying to help themselves:

Take objective measurements of your progress. That is

the only way that you will be able to trully see if what

you are doing is worth it.

 

12. WOMAN AND MAN‚S ROLE

Message no. 22
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 6:42pm
Subject Bibliography research message

I search for a woman and man's role on MSN and the exact

phrase was used. I didn't have any problems finding an

article. The web address is

http://hyper.vcsun.org/HyperNews/pmarcoux/get/genderroles/4.html

This article gives a woman's opinion on her view's of

how women and men within the media are portrayed. I

agree with her article to the extent that women have to

be the young sexual symbolic type in nature to be in

movies, television or advertisements.

I don't agree with her views about women having to

always be young, beautiful mother and wife while it's

the mans role to remain the "hero".

Message no. 29
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:05pm
Subject Gender roles in entertainment....

In looking for this topic I primarily used the internet

due to convenience. All I needed to type in the search

engine (MSN.com) was "Gender roles in entertainment" and

I received over 37000 hits. I read through several of

the articles and found some inciteful, and some very

naive and some just plain outrageous.

However, each and every one attacked the fact that there

are strong gender role depictions in modern

entertainment/media. Yes, this is true, there are

strong depictions. However, instead of attacking the

fact that there are, I think that we should first ask

ourselves WHY there are such strong depictions.

Here is what we see, the MAN (regardless of age) is the

heroic figure able to fix any problem, and usually very

little dynamic movement in his character's emotions and

personality. The WOMAN is typically the damsel in

distress, and now we are seeing her also as a "sidekick"

still requiring the man's help. The woman, also, are

very beautiful and often young. When we ask ourselves

WHY this happens the first reason that comes to mind is

simply because IT SELLS!! Studio executives are looking

to make money...plain and simple, they would depict a

large, older woman who did not shave or bathe if that

sold box-office tickets...but the plain fact is...it

doesn't.

The second reason would be that in real life, as far

back as recorded time goes (far beyond

media/entertainment's history and influence) these have

been the roles that men and women have filled. Studies

have proven that these gender roles have remained fairly

constant throughout Human history. The man was off

hunting the food, fighting to protect property, fixing

the leak in the cave's roof. The woman was home, seeing

to the children, cooking the food and engaging in social

interaction with other women. This is how the gender's

have interacted and coexisted with eachother for eons.

It only makes sense that this is how they will be

depicted in modern era entertainment. Why would

Hollywood portray something that 1) wouldn't go very

well with the mainstream population and 2) goes against

AGES of human nature?

We could debate this being "right and wrong" as far as

whether or not it should be happening 'till we are blue

in the face...but the fact of the matter is...its

HAPPENING! As wrong as I may believe many of these

gender roles are, thats not what sells. As cold as it

seems, these major studio executives aren't looking at

making statements...thats what the Sundance festival is

for...they are looking for what will nail the

box-office. In a sense, it is almost as if we are in a

rut...art does imitate life...but life also imitates art.

Message no. 32[Branch from no. 29]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:37am
Subject Re: Gender roles in entertainment....

This is regarding "Gender roles in entertainment"

I totally agree with you in the fact that we shouldn't

get mad that there are strong gender roles depicted in

modern entertainment. You have to admit, we allow it to

happen. Although, the media is slowly interchanging the

roles, for example, women doing the action in the

movies, "Charlies Angels" and "Tomb Raider".

Thinking about what sells, its true that we buy into the

MAN being the heroic figure and the WOMAN being the one

in distress or "side-kick". But now, both man and woman

are being seen as heros. However, men don't seem to

carry "the one in distress" role. Why is that? Well,

let's think about ...... it would be BORING. I admit it

myself, I don't care that men don't take on the female

role, I prefer they don't. BUT, women are taking the

mens role.....GIRL POWER!

Message no. 36[Branch from no. 32]
Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:22pm
Subject Re: Gender roles in entertainment....

I was thinking about your statement about media slowly

interchanging the roles where more women now are in the

limelight, acting as heroic figures. I also thought

about how males even undertake feminine roles, dressing

up and acting like women (like in the Hot Chick). We

have to admit, a times it is funny. Yes, people enjoy

watching males being daring and at the same time, many

of us also enjoy watching them play feminine roles.

Message no. 122[Branch from no. 32]
Friday, January 31, 2003 3:18pm
Subject Re: Gender roles in entertainment....

gender roles are a big part in our society. they make

up our ideologies and give us the goals for each sex to

attain. Perhaps that gender roles are some what

biological as well as social. each sex must attain

goals in different ways. they are both equal in todays

society although they think different and act different.

this causes them to find different ways of achieveing

the same goals.

Message no. 450[Branch from no. 122]
Friday, February 28, 2003 1:13pm
Subject Re: Gender roles in entertainment....

I agree that our society operates in a cyclical fashion

where we are influenced by the media, but that media is

influenced by our preferences for what we want to see.

When these things sell, the only people we can blaim for

the way things are, are ourselves. If our attitudes

changed in such a way that we did not want to view these

types of films or roles in the films, then they would

not make them anymore.

Message no. 690[Branch from no. 29]
Friday, April 4, 2003 6:37am
Subject Re: Gender roles in entertainment....

SO true... what we see is often what we believe is true

and what we believe is true often turns into what we

see. Its a vicious cycle that Hollywood is an expert on

capitalizing on, who can blame then? But i do like to

see the woman heroine in a story, sometimes it is damn

more sexy than the stupid hunk always stealing the show.

Message no. 711[Branch from no. 690]
Saturday, April 5, 2003 7:51pm
Subject Re: Gender roles in entertainment....

i would like to comment on your statement about the

"female" in a hero/heroin spot and how its sexy...amen,

my brother...amen. i also enjoy watching it, for a

couple of different reasons.

1) it is ultra sexy to see a woman taking charge, and

kicking ass...it just is! 2) its different from many

real life situations. its hard to find a woman who can

walk into a bar...beat the crap out of all the biker

dudes in there...and still be as attractive as she

walked in...sort of a role reversal/fantasy type

thing...who knows

Message no. 61
Friday, January 24, 2003 4:41pm
Subject re women and man's role

I agree with Lee-Jake that we should ask ourselves WHY

there are certain deceptions about men and women in

television.

Personally, I don't think television deceptions are far

from the truth. Men and women are different in all

aspects. Whether it be bilogical or phsiological. Men

and women are just different.

Message no. 86
Monday, January 27, 2003 8:40pm
Subject traditional roles transcend stereotype

I used Yahoo to research this topic and looked under the

heading 'gender roles.' (This is frustrating because I

alrady wrote this message but it wouldn't post and then

it got lost somehow. I'll do my best to remember what I

said.) Anyway, 'gender roles' brought up a barrage of

sites, some of which were useful for other forums which

was nice. One thing I don't like about searching like

this however, is that half the sites I get are for book

ads through Amazon.

I found two interesting sites

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/gender/gender22a.htm

and www.family.org/married/romance/a0009666.cfm. The

first site is a series published in The Washington Post

discussing modern-day roles with "how does it all fit

together?" queries. It is thought-provoking, although

not necessarily brand-new information.

The second site is from a conservative view and I have

actually done a lot of thinking since I've read it. It

basically breaks down traditional gender roles to

display their origins. While respecting women in the

workplace, it showed me that role of homemaker didn't

need defending until recently, that there is pride to be

had there. (Not that I am in any hurry.)

Like I said, I've spent some time thinking after reading

these and I realized that traditional gender roles

transcend "stereotype" if the majority of the world's

cultures display these characteristics within the sexes.

Then they are reality and I would say that I have to

wonder where it comes from, until I realize that I

believe these characteristics to be innate.

I do believe we should allow ourselves to "think outside

the box," not even within limits of gender A or B, but

to realize that we are all amazing creations with

limitless opportunities. I didn't venture into this

search with specifics in mind, but I have gained a whole

new perspective.

When we live our lives, male or female, as we are led

to, no role we choose will be traditional. We live our

lives only once, therefore nothing we do is

"traditional" within ourselves and we need not fear a

stereotype, but be happy where we found we are

emotionally fed.

Message no. 500[Branch from no. 86]
Friday, March 7, 2003 11:49am
Subject Re: traditional roles transcend stereotype

I'm not sure if I fully agree with you when you say that

you believe that gender role characteristics are innate.

Yes, it is true that many cultures have similarities.

For instance, in some cultures, it is traditional for

the woman to stay home and watch the kids, while the men

go out and work. Males, in general are the dominant

sex, while females are more submissive. But this does

not hold true for all cultures. In one of my other

psych classes I learned that in either Samoa or Tahiti

or somewhere I don't really remember, that men and women

are equal in this sense. You will find the women to be

just as aggressive as the men. Also I learned that in

this one African society, I think it was African, but

anyways, they have more than 2 distinctive genders, not

only the male gender and female gender. So I'm not so

sure that these characteristics are necessarily innate.

Maybe we are genetically predisposed to act a certain

way, depending on the sex that we are born with, but I

definitely feel that the society we live in and cultural

norms that we are exposed to, influence and perpetuate

these traditional norms.

Message no. 88
Monday, January 27, 2003 9:11pm
Subject What a women expects

During this search I wanted to get some insights from

song lyrics. I looked up lyrics.com and picked Alanis

Morsett because I have not heard any of her recent

songs, and I listened to her about five years ago. It

turned out sucessfull, she has some newer cd's out and I

was able to get the lyrics as well as provide a site

where you can listen to the song, in which correlates

with the discussion topic. The lyrics are on

http://www.alanismorissette.com/music/underrugswept.html#1,

and they are the first lyrics on that page. Also the

song can be heard on

http://www.alanismorissette.com/main.html.

The song title is "21 things I want it a lover." The

reason why I chose this song after some searching around

was because it is a female's view on the characteristics

she wants in a man. In the first chapter of our text it

points out some things in male character such as

'teasing, playful put-downs, and not asking questions.'

In the lyrics she asks of questions that a bold man

would have, such as being both masculine and feminine,

and says that she has the right to want certain things

in a man because she is 50% of the relationship. The

song is well written, and not bias. It is one women's

viewpoint in what she wants in a man. In her eyes if she

finds a man like this it will be her 'utopia' -

everything will be perfect, because in quotes from the

last line, things will be 'curious and [most

importantly] communicative.

Message no. 97[Branch from no. 88]
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:37pm
Subject Re: What a women expects

Alanis Morsett...A woman who speaks her mind and speaks

for a large part of the female population. She's a

creative song writer, but I'd have to say she is

somewhat of an extremist. After going to the website you

recomended and reading her lyrics, I have no doubt that

many women would also desire the same things in a man.

Although see has left many things out that woman and men

alike both seek in a partner. Regaurdless everyone has

in mind what the "Ideal" partner would be like and look

like, but the beauty of true love is not finding the

ideal partner that you've always dreamed of. Rather

discovering qualities and characteristic in your loved

one that you never even thought of. "Isn't it ironic?"

Message no. 125[Branch from no. 88]
Friday, January 31, 2003 4:20pm
Subject Re: What a women expects

I looked up the Alanis Morsett song and thought that it

was a good description of what a lot of women are

looking for in a man. Lots of women want a smart but

not cocky, athletic, considerate and playful man; which

the song talks about. A couple other songs I think

pinpoint a woman's wants is "Are you strong enough to be

my man" by Sheryl Crow and "What this woman needs" by

She daisy. I especially like "what this woman needs"

because it talks about emotional needs and is very

honest such as to be reassured, to feel secure, and also

talks about roles and tasks women usually take on in

relationships. Songs are a good way to understand

emotions and feelings of the opposite sex and the ones

that are very sincere usually give good and correct

information.

Message no. 198[Branch from no. 125]
Friday, February 7, 2003 6:29am
Subject Re: What a women expects

I believe music is a great theraputic stress reliever.

But I think we must be careful in getting advise from

songs. Most of the time it is something unreachable

that in normal life does not exist. I think instead of

having certain standards and qualifications, we (as

people)need to keep an open mind. You should not give

up on someone or a relationship just b/c the person does

not fall into a certain category.

Message no. 145[Branch from no. 88]
Monday, February 3, 2003 7:35pm
Subject sorry, alanis

interesting posting, but if we really want our men to be

like the men in these songs, then does that mean we have

to be like the women in nasty men's songs? i am not

about to take my role models from women lusted after by

eminem or ludacris, and rest of the music industry whose

profane, crackhead, subservient women's images they sing

about. sorry, alanis.

Message no. 210[Branch from no. 88]
Friday, February 7, 2003 12:42pm
Subject Re: What a women expects

I would have to agree with Heather because it is

understandable that attaining ALL the qualities that you

want in a female/male may just as well be an task for

infinity because people just learn to deal with what

they encounter in their significant others especially if

they don't have all the qualities they would have wanted

in the first place. I'm not trying to say that it is

unattainable, but maybe just a little too much of an

extreme ideal that songs are just an avenue of

expressing these ideals.

Message no. 219[Branch from no. 88]
Friday, February 7, 2003 5:02pm
Subject Re: What a women expects

I remembered a song that is very accurate of a woman's

needs/ wants in a realationship. I am not sure if it was

written by a man but Bryan Adams sings it, "Have you

ever really loved a Woman." I think this song entails

how a woman would like a man to think of her. It is

even better than some songs written or performed by

women. It goes to show maybe some men do know what a

woman wants or discovered it while in love, in any case

it is a great song and the lyrics can be found at

Lyrics.com.

Message no. 111
Friday, January 31, 2003 10:16am
Subject Gender roles of male and females

Male and females are affected by stereotypes all over

society. Alot of times the stereotype of a male may

affect the female or vice versa. I used two websites

from the search engine of yahoo and they are:

www.gender.org.uk/about and

www.jhucc.genderrole.h16/gr.shtml. I agree with the

second address because it speaks that in the topic of

sex a woman is afraid to say no to a man because they

are afraid of getting beaten up or anything else of that

nature. It also states that women have to cater to the

man or else a man may not keep them long. This

stereotype is out there. I have heard things through my

firl friends, and they have stated that sometimes they

are scared of men for this reason. In a sense for men

they may do whatever they pretty much want. Don't get me

wrong, I am a man, and sometimes I may agree with his

when I am in the right state of mind. But in the site it

stated that guys in Mexico and places of that sort may

have a wife as well as a few sex partners, which in some

way that is right. For the women they must stay true.

But at the same time the man may spread some kind of

disease to the next. I must say that the gender role of

a man is dominant and the female fole is inferior in

society today.

Message no. 577[Branch from no. 111]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:12am
Subject Re: Gender roles of male and females

In response to Evan.......

It's sad that a woman has to fear her safety all because

a man wants to have sex as you mentioned in your

findings, but coming from a girls perspective.......I

know so many relationships were it's the complete

opposite. There isn't violence involved, but I guess

you can say there is manipulation involved. I know of a

lot of relationships were it's the girl who want to have

sex all the time instead of the guy. I read somewhere

that who ever controls the frequency of intercourse in

the relationship has the upper hand, because the other

person is dependent on whenever the other wants it.

Both men and women can use this to their advantage and

basically manipulate their significant other. This can

totally hurt the relationship and may even cause

infedelity.

Message no. 120
Friday, January 31, 2003 2:55pm
Subject The changes in the roles of men and women

I search in msn.com under the phrases "men and women's

roles" and it led me to an article called "Changes to

Men and Women's Roles in Response to Changes in Women's

Roles" and the site is

http://www.langara.bc.ca/sociology/studentgallery/1120Groups/GroupD/MagMoo1.html.

In this article, the author described that the roles of

men use to be the bread bringer while the women stayed

at home to care for the children. As time changes and

equality between men and women are pushed for, women are

also the supplier and men also care for the children.

In many families, the woman is the one who is the

primary supplier while the man stays at home. As

society changes, so does the equality of men and women

changes.

The author also stated that men have become "soft men"

because they are in touch with their feminine side while

women are the "stronger females". The author states

that there could be no happiness in this kind of

relationship. Men support-groups and clubs are an

example of "soft males".

I don't agree with the author that males should be

considered "soft males" if they care for their family.

In many families today, the male can work, take care of

their children and home, and still be the head of the

house. Just because they have learned to care and spend

time with their family does not mean that they are less

of a man.

Message no. 314[Branch from no. 120]
Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:42pm
Subject Re: The changes in the roles of men and women

I absolutely agree with you that men shouldn't be called

"soft males" just because they can take care of a family

and perform sterotypical female duties. Since we live

in an age where men and women are in the working force

the duties of parenting should be equally divided. With

people like that (the author)it's no wonder that gender

sterotypes will always exist. As for men having support

groups I don't see why the author thinks that it's

feminine. I think males need someone to talk to just as

much as females.

Message no. 581[Branch from no. 120]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:06pm
Subject Re: The changes in the roles of men and women

I agree that some men today are becoming "Soft

men"...but I think that is for the better of society.

Becoming "soft men" does not mean that he will totally

lose his masculinity. I think androgyny is the key for

both genders to lead to happiness in a relationship. We

are not living in caveman days anymore. People should

wake up and realize that people are more evolved and

educated.

In a family, men and women both need to be the

caretakers who are nurturing and loving. Therefore, men

need to take on the so-called "feminine" role. I see

absolutely nothing wrong with men who are in touch with

their feminine side because they are not afraid to be

nurturing, sensitive, and empathetic to others.

Message no. 124
Friday, January 31, 2003 3:35pm
Subject Relationship Roles

I have been married for 10 years. My husband is my best

friend. We try to do everything together. I know that

we would not be together today if we both had different

roles. My relationship is equal. Within those 10 years

there have been times when I have financially supported

him and there have been times when he has supported me.

There have been times when I am responsible to do most

of the housework and vice versa. Our relationship is as

equal as a relationship can be. Things are not even

discussed some times, it is just known that because you

are working right now means you need to do a little more

housework. We both seem to understand this. My

confusion comes in when a man expects his wife to work

full time and come home and clean house, prepare meals,

and take care of the children while he sits on his ass

and watches TV. I can not believe there are women still

out there and allow this caveman behavior to still

exist. Men are not superior to women. My husband and I

have discussed our future. We moved to Hawaii so I

could continue my education and follow my dream of

becoming a doctor. My husband and I said that he would

have to support us while I am in school, but as soon as

I get through Medical School he is going to be able to

follow his heart and dreams. When that time comes I

will be bringing our financial stability. As far as I

am concerned he can retire. We are doing this to better

ourselves together, not indiviually.

Now you know how I feel, let me discuss what I found on

the internet. I assumed I would get the traditional

roles of women at home with the kids, housework, and the

meals. I assumed that the man's role would be to bring

home the money. And in my searching I ran into a lot of

religious opions for men and women. I did not want this

type of literature being that it is extremely biased,

sexist, chauvinistic. I did find I paper that agreed

with my point of view at this site:

http://east.osu.edu/cbz/Radio%207role%20relationships.htm www.relatebetter.com

I searched on Google.com using the terms; "relationship

roles", "relationship roles humans", "man & woman

roles", and "male relationship role". I did get several

weird sites that had to do with computers and authors.

In my research I found that the most important thing is

communication between each partner. Talk about the

chores, the children, the bills, just talk about what

each others expectations are - COMMUNICATE!

Message no. 253[Branch from no. 124]
Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:24pm
Subject Re: Relationship Roles

Reply to Heather Piper:

I'm so glad to know that there is a man who does not

impose or excercise traditional gender role on women,

which is your husband, and I also envy you. You're

right. There are so many women who work as full time

and do house work by themselves, as if they are single

mothers. As long as they are happy about their devoting

themselves for it, I have no problem with it. But

things don't work that way nowadays. I see frequently

TV programs which focus on the question that why women

don't want to marry. Those women who were interviewed

answer to that question : why would I want to have an

extra person to take care of when nobody takes care of

me except me.

Personaly, I had a time when I had to work full time and

take care of everything in the house, including

searching for my ex-boyfriend's socks. One day, all of

sudden, I screamed and decided to take care of my own

life. I hope I can meet someone like your husband

someday.

Message no. 127
Friday, January 31, 2003 4:37pm
Subject Mother and Father Roles

I was searching for roles of parents and how they

differ. I used the search term roles of mothers and

fathers. I didn't encounter any problems but found an

informative site on the difference in roles, new

responsibilities and societies new view of parenting.

The site I went to was:

http://www.westernwheel.com/000315/viewpoint-roles.html

I thought that some key points the site made was what

roles of fathers used to be, " It was through work that

fathers nourished their children. And what the roles of

mothers used to be, „It was through the comforts of

meals, housekeeping and soothing affection that mothers

nurtured their children." Now roles of parents are more

inclusive of their children‚s life. But as the roles

change so does the relationship of the mother and

father. I thought a very important and interesting point

was that the „guidance or adviceš mothers try to give

fathers is usually unwelcome because it is a way to make

fathers more like mothers, and that is something they

cannot become. Roles are different for a reason and in

many case this difference helps the child.

Message no. 280[Branch from no. 127]
Friday, February 14, 2003 9:28am
Subject Re: Mother and Father Roles

I find it interesting how people must adapt when faced

with new surrondings and situations like the changing of

roles in the house hole. In this day and age each

person must be able to cover all roles if they want to

survive. People also must be supported in changing their

ideas of the traditional roles and be able to pick up

the slack where their partner might be deficient. The

changing of roles is entering the ideas of a more well

rounded human being and i think we should all strive to

be better as a person.

Message no. 180
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 8:53pm
Subject "shut your mouth and know your role!"

So, I return to what seems to be the popular topic among

the 409 and 459 classes....men, women, and how the hell

we survive without KILLING eachother.

Well, I was initially trying to work on the "sexist

jokes" topic, when I ran accross this link:

http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/DB/issues/99/01.13/view.ho.html

It is a student who is addressing the fact that men and

women are treated differently, and that society

perpetuates these roles through what it says.

For the most part, I would like to argue against this

person's opinions. While they are her opinions, I do

believe that they are naive, and closed minded to the

facts. Taking everything into account, genetics,

history, evolution, and present day roles, men and women

have interacted the same since the beginning of time. I

believe that it is this balance of skills that has made

the human race the successful and dominant race on the

planet. When we begin to look at how women are treated,

or men are treated...we are no longer looking at the big

picture of humanity, but are engaging in petty quarrels

that just prolong further success of our race in

general. It is our differences, and our unique

abilities that allow us to survive as THE species.

Let me put it like this, a puzzle is not able to be put

together unless you have pieces that have opposite

features and sides that can fit together. You can not

fit pieces together if they have the exact same

features, and sides on them...they do not fit together.

Instead, it is the pieces that have opposite

sides...where one piece sticks out, the other has to

curve inwards. Like humanity, it is this balance of

opposites and differences that makes the human race so

great, and beautiful!

This discussion message is what I like to call "beating

a dead horse...over and over again" ;)

Message no. 213[Branch from no. 180]
Friday, February 7, 2003 1:51pm
Subject Re: "shut your mouth and know your role!"

To continue beating the dead horse, I agree with you.

The key to being compatible in any combination of roles,

is the flexibility that both you and your partner

approach your roles from. Roles are no longer qualified

by certain limitations, but about being complementary to

the other person's role so that you "fit." A woman may

assume a different role in a relationship with another

woman than a relationship with a man because there are

different expectations attatched to each. Roles only

contain the attributes that we allow them to, so go out

there and find someone that fits you!

Message no. 528[Branch from no. 180]
Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:50pm
Subject Re: "shut your mouth and know your role!"

I agree that women and men need one another...it's the

balance of nature and what the man lacks, a woman has.

Women and men should learn more about the gender roles

of the opposite sex. This will enable them to

understand the opposite gender better and create less

conflict in a relationship. Awareness is the key to a

peaceful marriage or relatioship.

Living in this day and age, one can't be ignorant

anymore. Ignorance just doesn't pay off. Maybe in some

cultures where women are still being seriously oppressed

may not agree, but in the long run oppression of women

will do no good. We are made to be equal, not the same,

but in our own unique way. Both men and women can

equally contribute themselves and what they know to make

a relatioship work. It also doesn't hurt if you can

learn to adapt to the opposite gender roles.

Message no. 676[Branch from no. 180]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 9:19pm
Subject Re: "shut your mouth and know your role!"

i think your right. we are both the same yet different

and these differences help us to be a better species.

The problems come when everyone wants to be the same.

yes we are all human but as sexes we think and act in

different ways. Not only do we need to understand each

other but we have to take in to account that each person

is also different.

Message no. 712[Branch from no. 676]
Saturday, April 5, 2003 7:53pm
Subject Re: "shut your mouth and know your role!"

right...and beyond the understanding, and taking into

account...i think that taking this knowledge and using

it to figure out how we can better use our differences

to better human-kind will become the ultimate use of our

"gender differences." we have come so far while arguing

about who's better, and becoming the same...can you

imagine what would happen if we could pool our

differences together...analyze how to best use

them...and then begin using them...we could conquer the

mysteries of the universe!

Message no. 308
Sunday, February 16, 2003 7:59pm
Subject Misunderstanding between sexes

For this research topic I was just searching for

anything to do with women and men roles. The search

terms that I used was woman and man roles. I did not

have any problems during my search because there was a

lot of information on this specific topic. The search

engine that I used was google. The web address of the

site is:

http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap9/chap9q.htm

In this article I found that there is a misunderstanding

between women and men's roles. Women tend to believe

that men want women to fill tradition roles such as:

cooking, cleaning, childcare. Men also believe that

women want them to fulfil a traditional role. They

think that they are supppose to be manly, take care of

the financial obligations, and to have the career. This

is a misunderstanding because women actually want a man

to be sensitive and gentle and men want women to be more

than just a housekeeper. I thought this was interesting

because in my relationship my boyfriend he feels that he

is suppose to fill the stereotype role as well. He

thinks that he should be able to protect me physically

and support me financially. He is wrong because I

actually don't like when he gets into fights over me. I

would rather have him be more sensitive and mature. As

far as money, I do not mind paying for things sometimes.

Message no. 311[Branch from no. 308]
Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:34pm
Subject Re: Misunderstanding between sexes

I think you brought up a very important point, one that

is seemingly overlooked. I'm not sure many people are

aware of this misunderstanding between the sexes but

your article clearly illustrates the issue.

I myself don't believe in the stated stereotypes about

traditional roles, just like you. It's hard to earn

money nowadays so my boyfriend and I take turns paying

for dates or if he pays for dinner, then I pay for

movies. In that way, it makes the relationship a little

more equal. Also, unlike the stereotype of males not

taking enough time to think through things and hence

just make rash decisions without thinking of the

consequences, my boyfriend is practical. As for the

stereotype of women being subservient or weak, I insist

on carrying my own books and trying to figure out how

to do things on my own before giving in to asking for

help.

But I suppose, every couple is different and therefore

have their own ways. It's interesting how the article

points out how the level of education determines who

the boss in a marriage will be. I think it has some

truth to it. Afterall, women who go to college are much

more educated and can therefore question such issues in

a relationship.

Message no. 436[Branch from no. 308]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:14pm
Subject Re: Misunderstanding between sexes

I liked the point you bring up about traditional roles

of men and women. The man is supposed to bring home the

money to support the family while the woman tends to the

housewqork and children. WRONG! I think this is a very

outdated idea that many people still feel strongly

about. As a man, I can say that I feel societal

pressure to provide for my girlfriend and to protect her

physically if necessary. Perhaps the article is

accurate in the fact that men and women don't really

understand each other very well. However, I see no

remedy besides education and honest communication.

Message no. 677[Branch from no. 308]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 9:36pm
Subject Re: Misunderstanding between sexes

i think there is a basic misunderstanding in the way we

see things. I think if we were taught these things as

children it would be a little easier to change the way

we think. The older a person gets the harder it is for

them to change.

Message no. 728[Branch from no. 677]
Sunday, April 6, 2003 2:24pm
Subject Re: Misunderstanding between sexes

I think that these miscommunications still go on at a

certain level, but I think that a lot of men now realize

that women want them to be sensitive. They maybe think

of this as an addition to providing protection and

financial suppot. There seems to still be an underlying

feeling that women should be at home taking care of the

children. However, many of the guys I have dated

support me in my dreams for my career and don't

outrightly express these stereotypes. This doesn't mean

that they weren't there. Maybe I just surround myself

with people who have the same philosophies for the most

part.

Message no. 385
Friday, February 21, 2003 8:18pm
Subject Gender roles

For this search I decided to use google again. I feel

that google is the best search engine available for my

needs. The very first site I looked at was an article

in the Washington Post by Richard Morin and Megan

Rosenfeld:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longeterm/gender/gender22a.htm

The article was based on a survey of 4,000 married

Amercians with children. Most of the people surveyed,

including women, said that they thought gender equity

has come a long way and that their lives are better

because of it. however, they also stated that their

lives are also much more difficult. The problem lies

with the appropriation of time and duties between the

parents concerning child rearing and household chores.

Most women agree that men are helping around the house

more than ever now, but they still feel that they are

not helping enough. In households in which both parents

are working, women still do twice as much household

chores than men. Although a majority of those surveyed

said that men and women should have equal work

opportunities, they also agreed that it would be better

if women could stay home and take care of the home and

children. I found this very ironic that women have

fought for so long to have equal opportunity, yet most

of them still feel that they belong in the home. So has

society shaped us to believe that this way is better, or

is it biologically inate instincts that we are given

from birth? Whatever the reason, I agree that men and

women should have equal opportunities, but that somehow,

women are simply better at household management.

Message no. 662[Branch from no. 385]
Thursday, April 3, 2003 1:47am
Subject Re: Gender roles

This is true that gender equity has come a long way from

the era of a completely man-dominated society, yet I

almost never give it a thought that women were treated

so sewverly different than man. This is most likely due

to the fact that I am a male, and I have never been

subject to gender discrimination that women may endure.

Message no. 881[Branch from no. 385]
Thursday, April 24, 2003 10:12am
Subject Re: Gender roles

I agree that women may be better in household management

than compared to men, but that may be because women has

been the ones who usually does household chores. If

only more men can take on the responsibility to do more

household chores that the women usually do, then maybe

they will get more better at it. More men these days

are beginning to be the cooks and housewives, while

their wives go to work. I believe that it should be

50/50 in the household, maybe have the men and women

take turns every week or do the chores together.

Society is changing, but there is still a lot of room

for improvement. Men need to get out of the phase that

household chores are meant for women only. If they only

knew how much they could contribute to the household by

sharing household duties, not only by fixing things in

the house, but also in babysitting, cooking, etc...they

will much more helpful around the house.

Message no. 410
Monday, February 24, 2003 12:51pm
Subject Men and women need each other

I searched Google.com for information pertaining to the

claim that a "woman's role is to help her man to

improve himself, and wise is the man who cooperates." I

used search phrases such as "men need women" and

"gender roles in relationships." However, the most

concise search phrase I used was "men and women in

successful relationships." I received 10 hits and I was

able to pull out a few more articles from just one site,

which dealt with strategies to make relationships work.

Having that said, I did not encounter much problems in

doing this search.

In response to the claim, I say both men and women need

each other. It is not a matter of one sex being better

and thereby must improve the other; it's more about men

and women learning how to make things work by taking

other factors in consideration besides gender. They

should learn how to use each other's skills and

personalities and be able to communicate effectively,

being able to give suggestions and accept criticisms.

They need each other to build strong, meaningful

relationships.

The following site talks about how society establishes

gender roles for men and women:

http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap9/chap9p.htm These

gender roles are deeply rooted in our society, but

people are starting to realize that women have been

severely oppressed in the past and therefore there is a

need to treat both sexes fairly.

The article found at

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/women/articles/0,15114,

370514,00.html talks about how these men have undertaken

roles that women traditionally held in the past. They

stay home while their wives work. This arrangement has

worked out for them; the men are not belittled and do

not feel that way for doing those things.

In this article titled "Do Men Need Women"

http://www.wttk.org/nourishment/domenneedwomen.ht m the

(male) author states that men do need women but that

the word "need" has come to have a negative

connotation. " Admitting to needing someone is not a

sign of being needy or weak, but "is only natural to

admit that you need someone that completes you." A

second article that also says that men need women is

found at (well, -- AskMen.com)

http://www.askmen.com/money/mafioso_60/87_mafia. html He

talks about how his wife supports him and how men can

achieve more if they have supporting women in their

lives.

Message no. 442[Branch from no. 410]
Friday, February 28, 2003 2:54am
Subject Re: Men and women need each other

Good job for finding those articles. I also searched

for the topic, but I could not find that many. Maybe

because of the searching terms that I used. Anyway, I

totally agree with your point. "Both men and women need

to learn from each other in order to build strong and

meaningful relationship."

Message no. 444
Friday, February 28, 2003 7:11am
Subject equality?

I searching for google with the search terms Roles of

men and women. I came across an article that had what i

was looking for. I was relatively easy to find. The

article was titled gender roles in the 90s.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/gender/gender22a.htm

The areticle was discussing about how equality fit in to

the society as a whole and how far it has actually come.

It had a survey study of men adn women and asked their

opinions on whether they thought there was equality or

not. For most men they believe that the women were

equal and for most women they thought it still wasnt.

There is a section in the article that talks about jobs

have changed but chores havent. This is merely talking

about how the women maybe getting more equality at the

work place but come home and still perform the

traditional sex roles of our society.

Message no. 501
Friday, March 7, 2003 12:25pm
Subject Happy wife, Happy life

I used Yahoo and did a search on the words "wife +

husband + role + help + improve." This task was pretty

easy and I encountered no difficulties. I found one

article written by a man named Tom Pryor, which can be

found at this address:

http://www.icms.net/news-34.htm

In this article Pryor asks the question, "What one thing

would you like to change in your wife or husband?" He

said that there are basically 3 different categories of

responses. The first type is the pious response (I

wouldn't change a thing). The second type is the plural

response (just one thing? how about 5?). And the last

type is the personal response (for my spouse to change,

I first must change). Pryor says that his wife falls

into the plural response category. He explains that one

of the things that she wanted him to do, was to lose a

little bit of weight. And she helped him throughout his

process. Together they purchased a book on healthy

eating habits, learned new recipes, set a goal and a way

to celebrate it, and his wife offered him encouragement

the entire way. Pryor said that while it was his

responsibility to lose the weight in the first place,

his wife played an important supportive role. I guess

in a sense, Tom Pryor is saying that it is the woman's

role to help the man improve himself, and it is wise for

the man to cooperate. Like he said in his article,

"Happy wife, happy life."

Message no. 912[Branch from no. 501]
Sunday, April 27, 2003 9:46pm
Subject Re: Happy wife, Happy life

Very true indeed, that if a man wishes to improve,

especially by his spouse, he has to cooperate with her.

But how many men out there are willing to be changed? A

handful. Some might unwillingly change in the

beginning, but those changes don't last long.

Eventually they'll go back to their old selves. The

point is they have to realize the need to be changed.

Another point I'd like to make is that "happy wife,

happy life" only works for those who put their wives on

the top of their priority list. Some men seek happiness

in the golf course or elsewhere, not from their marriage.

Message no. 509
Saturday, March 8, 2003 9:29pm
Subject the helper

My focus for this search was how a woman's role is to

help her man improve himself. This search was

difficult, I used many search engines and didn't come up

with any helpful results. I finally used

http://www.skworm.com and found this site:

http://www.church-of-god.org/cogn/cn9908/knowmar.html I

used the phrase: woman's role to help her man improve

himself.

This is a news article from the Church of God. Most of

the article is based upon how a Christian man and woman

should act in a marriage. In subheading #2 it says that

God created man and gave him certain responsibilites on

earth, while woman was created to help him. Therefore

this article supports the notion that a woman's role is

to help her man improve himself.

Message no. 529
Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:00pm
Subject Muslim men's role....

In this search, I used www.google.com. I didn't

encounter any problems with my search. I came across a

pretty good website:

http://www.crescentlife.com/thisthat/muslim_men's_role_in_eliminating_oppression_of_women.htm

In this search...it talks about the oppression of women

and the violence against women. Oppression and abuse of

women is a human rights issue. A woman is a human being

just like a man. Therefore women should be treated just

as fair.

Some basic steps men can take to create a more humane

society for not only women, but everyone. Violence

against women not only affects the women, but ultimately

affects the whole family, community, and the world.

1. Examine your own attitudes and actions 2. Educate

yourself..."Learn to be fair and just" "What would

God do?" 3. Be pro-active (become involved by writing

letters or articles denouncing the oppression and abuse

of women; attend domestic violence workshops; help other

men correct their own negative attitudes toward women;

raise and teach your children to choose alternatives to

violent behavior and language; learn why some men are

violent towards women, etc.) 4. Support literacy and

empowerment of women (An educated woman is a tremendous

asset to her family and the world) 5. Respect women

(nowhere in the Quran does it allow disrespect of women)

6. GROW UP: this may sound harsh, but some men may feel

threatened by a woman who knows her worth which will

cause a challenge to the man and make him feel

uncomfortable. It will take conscious effort on a daily

basis.

Message no. 576[Branch from no. 529]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:02am
Subject Re: Muslim men's role....

In response to Marissa,

I saw a really good episode of Oprah that talks about

this topic. She had a panel of men who were sensitive

to issues concerning women and how the key to eliminate

violence and other negative attitudes towards women was

to educate young boys to respect women. It was really

interesting to listen to the men talk because these men

cam from stereotypical male professions like football

who turned around and realized how the facade of being

macho reinforced the negative attitudes towards women.

Men from an early age are taught that crying is not

acceptable and they aren't taught how to talk about

their emotions. This is why it's sometimes hard for men

to open up in man - women relationships. The one

attitude they are taught and is considered acceptable is

agression. The macho attiude contributes to violence

against women because they somehow feel superior and

they have the need to show power over women through

violence.

Message no. 600[Branch from no. 529]
Friday, March 21, 2003 3:40pm
Subject Re: Muslim men's role....

It is hard for men to be equal when they have women that

will bow to their every wish. My sister got married

last May to a man who thinks that he is superior to her.

What is interesting is that my sister followed many of

the steps you talk about.

1. my sister believed that relationship should be equal

2. my sister was a lawyer by age 24, that is pretty

educated 3. my sister use to help her friends in abusive

relationships 4. she is definitely for the enpowerment

of women, by getting an accounting degree and becoming a

lawyer by age 24

She has followed most of these steps, but has still

found herself in an abusive relationship. What would

make her be with a man that just wants to use her for

her law advice and the money she is making. He has 4

other children with 3 other women. She is educated.

She see's how good relationship are suppose to be,

through our parents (who have been married for 34 years)

and myself (who has been married for 10 years). What

would possess her to get into this type of relationship?

What has that man said to her to make her think that

this type of behavior is acceptable? She never use to

be this way. She works 2 jobs to support this lazy

piece of shit who is being kicked out of the military

and his 2 children (delinquents - 1 of the kids is

already in juvy)? How did she change into a person I do

not even know?

These are the types of things we need to start studying.

We need to help women to not fall into this type of

situation. If any of you have an advice I would truly

appreciate hearing any suggestions. She is losing

contact with her family. What can I do?

Message no. 582
Thursday, March 20, 2003 2:15pm
Subject Equality among men and women

In this search, I used www.google.com, I didn't

encounter any problems during my search. I used the

search words 'men and women's roles' as my search words.

I specifically wanted to search for the different roles

of men and women.

I came across this website:

http://www.unfpa.org/modules/intercenter/role4men/enhancin.htm

Achieving equality among men and women should start from

the home. The traditional family structure in which the

man is the "breadwinner" and the woman is the

"caretaker" is a myth. Fathers spend about a third

amount of time as much as mothers caring for their

children. Responsibility for children is still seen as

belonging to the mother. Economic, cultural, and other

factors may be the reason why fathers spend less time

with their children. Evidence has shown that the more

equally the father and mother divides the economic

responsibility, then the more equal their child care

responsibilities will be.

There is a new image of a "good father" and hopefully

more men will evolve into this image. The father should

be expected to share household responsibilities, be

close with his wife and children, cooperates with his

partner, and be present at the birth of the child.

Message no. 597
Friday, March 21, 2003 3:22pm
Subject Searching male & female roles once again

I started my (2nd) search on this topic using

www.google.com with the terms "relationship roles", "man

& women roles", and "male relationship role. I was

getting a lot of sites that were related to religion. I

was not happy with this because the religious point of

view is that the man "is the head of the house." This

is sexist and biased. This was not what I was looking

for. So I continued with an advanced search using

"relationship roles" and the exact phrase "man to

improve himself." This search seemed to open up the

right doors. I found sites that had this exact phrase

and that had articles, advice columns, and books

written about this exact idea. I came across a website

that was a rebuttal to Dr. Gray's opinion on

relationships. Dr. Gray has a PhD in psychology and his

expert opinion on relationship roles is found in a book.

The book that almost everyone has heard about, "Men are

from Mars, Women are from Venus." Dr. Gray's opinion

seem to follow this sexist way of thinking. He says

that our brains are wired differently so we different on

a biological level. Dr. Gray also says that are needs

are very different. I found that Dr. Gray talks more

about what women can do to change rather than what both

sexes can do. To quote Dr. Gray, "A man defines his

sense of self through his actions" and "A woman defines

her sense of self generally through the quality of her

relationships." You can use this link to access Dr.

Gray's site: www.marsvenus.com. This link will take

you to the advice Dr. Gray gives to women, "5 Things

Women Do That Drive Men Away":

http://www.marsvenus.com/message.php?msg3bcf.

It was nice to know that there were other women out

there that did not believe Dr. Gray's points of view.

In my opinion, relationships need to be equal. Women

are not suppose to be cleaning the house, having babies,

and taking care of the husbands. And men's role is not

always the "provider" role. Each and every relationship

neeD to be evaluated individually. I do not think that

a woman's role is to improve the man. But I do believe

that in a relationship it is each partners equal

responsibility to make it work. People should be

concerned about making each other better human beings,

not better men or women. Why must there be a

distinction between the sexes? We should all strive to

make us better couple and improve OUR relationship.

Message no. 628
Friday, March 28, 2003 1:28pm
Subject Both Need Awareness and Understanding

I decided to revisit the topic „Woman and man‚s roleš to

look for more information to improve my Annotated

Bibliography Report. I used the search engine

http://vivisimo.com. I ran into a bit of trouble looking

for articles/examples of men needing advice from women

and vice versa; so, I changed this initial goal to

finding tips on how men and women can communicate

better and hence have better relationships. The most

promising search phrase I used was „men need women.š

Here are a few of the sites that I found to be useful:

1) www.tagnet.org/adventist.fm/articles/signb.htm This

article points out what Dr. Deborah Tannen has stated

in her books Ų that men are more competitive than

women; that women are more collaborative. Understanding

these differences are not enough, so a list of

suggestions on how to better communicate, from the book

Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, is included.

There is also a True/False Quiz on how well you know

women and men.

2) http://www.jalmc.org/tips4m&w.htm „Tips for Men and

Women Working Togetherš lists suggestions for both men

and women. For example: When women ask questions, it is

not because they are ignorant. They are interested. The

same goes for men; don‚t assume that they are not

interested if they don‚t ask questions. It just goes to

show that awareness of these differences can lead to

better working relationships/environments.

3) www.instacoach.com/6%20things%20women%20want .htm

Rinatta Paries, a Relationship Coach, lists six things

that women want from men. Under each of the listed

concepts are what men think women want and tips for men

on how to achieve that goal. For example, men think

women want their money. Okay, there are women who want

to be financially supported by men just as there are

men that want the same thing; keep in mind that men and

women can be good financial partners.

Message no. 657[Branch from no. 628]
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 3:05pm
Subject Re: Both Need Awareness and Understanding

Michelle,

i really like that article you found about tips for men

and women working together...i think that is a really

really big issue especially if men and women are

misunderstanding each other all the time...it took me

awhile to adjust to that concept but i understand what

the article was saying like how women want empathy first

and then solutions, but men are more likely to think

that if there's a problem there's a solution so fix it

(people can disagree with me on this part..i'm just

talking about my experiences). I also think that the

majority of the time people in relationships

misunderstand each other because they have a different

mindset about communication and ASSUMPTION is the worst

enemy of them all...because a woman might be thinking

one way, while the man is thinking the other way so

feelings get hurt, confusion arises, and problems are

never resolved...

Message no. 689
Friday, April 4, 2003 6:33am
Subject Gender roles: who should do what

I wanted to search for how society views the gender

roles of men and women. Im sick of using Google so I

decided to use www.msn.com for a change and see if I got

any notably better of worse results.

I first searched for "womens's roles" and then "man's

roles", but this led to too many responses so i narrowed

down the results considerably by joining the two phrases

together = "man's role"+"women's role"...and presto! I

got exactly the kind of responses I wanted.

The first site of some use was from a womens rights

discussion :

http://www.elavidge.com/press/releases/gia/World_Women.pdf

It says that one in two adults(which immediatly annoys

me, why the heck cant the just say 50%) worldwide "...do

not believe that women enjoy the same rights as men".

This article also examined the rights of women across

countries. North America and Western Europe tended to be

the most favorable towards gender equality, whilst West

Africa still has a general attitude of male-superiority.

The second site, which provided a stark contrast to the

first, anyalyzed the roles of men and women from a

biblical/religious perspective.

http://www.btinternet.com/~Nick_Brooke/sects/azilos.htm

These religious maintain that the Bible has set forth

certain roles that the man and women should occupy.

Women's role in life is different from men's role, but

both are equal in spirit. "The woman's role is that of

the life-giver and nurturer, the man's role that of the

protector and provider. Both need to work in concert for

the good of Creation." This actually coincides more with

my own personal views(oh man I'm gonna get it next

class), although it is somewhat outdated. this sort of

role-playing is more suited to a time when we did not

have the comforts, wealth, safety, and longevity of our

current lifestyles. Through most of human history men

needed to be stronger to physically protect and provide

food for the family, while the womens primary role was

child rearing, only in the past few centuries have women

come to be able to occupy the breadwinners role.

Message no. 747[Branch from no. 689]
Monday, April 7, 2003 8:07pm
Subject Re: Gender roles: who should do what

"The woman's role is that of the life-giver and

nurturer, the man's role that of the protector and

provider. Both need to work in concert for the good of

Creation." this sort of role-playing is more suited to a

time when we did not have the comforts, wealth, safety,

and longevity of our current lifestyles." I agree, there

was a certain role that suited to each gender, and

probably there is a certain role now, too if we talk

about gender, but it is completelt different that

traditional one. I'm from a traditional family; my

father is a excellent provider of not only necessities

for comfortable life, but also laughter, harmony, and

peace, my mother is a excellent house taker at the same

time she's been working as a journalist. So, it is

natural for me to think that I am going to take care of

house-work and work.

It is really selfish of me to say this, but if someone

forces me to take a traditional woman's role, I will

refuse it. But if someone let me take care of things I

can and at the same time let me do things I want to do,

I will enjoy being a woman.

Message no. 814[Branch from no. 689]
Monday, April 14, 2003 9:17am
Subject Re: Gender roles: who should do what

Regarding Bryce's search:

For the second article, it's been said for the longest

time that the man's role is that of the protector and

provider and the women's role is that of the life-giver

and nurturer. Now a days, it's universal, women are

sometimes the provider and men are also nurturer. Right

now, if men were the primary provider (have a job),

there's no way you can survive comfortably. It takes

two providers to support a family. However, some men

can't handle the fact that sometimes women will make

more money than them.

Two guy friends of mine are married and refuses for

their wives to work. Why not? It's stupid having them

stay home and wait for them. I think they are afraid

that maybe they'll find out that they don't have to rely

on them for money. My husband rather haves me to work,

but if I chose not to, he has no problem with that.

Message no. 698
Friday, April 4, 2003 1:40pm
Subject Roles of the Sexes

In my search I wished to find the roles of men and women

in current American society. I used google with the

search term "roles of the sexes". There were no

problems.

The first site I found was

http://www.libertocracy.com/Valentrium/Society/sexrelationship.htm

, which put forth some interesting ideas to say the

least. It focused on very traditional male and female

roles, citing how ancient human hunter/gatherer

societies functioned. It said that it is a man's duty

to protect his wife in return for his wife's service.

Therefore it inherently states that a female cannot be

the breadwinner of her family because of her intrinsic

nature which urges her to stay home. It completely

ignores the state of modern society, that women don't

have to be protected just to leave their homes and earn

a living.

The second site I found contained an excellent article

entitled "Gender roles stifle potential of both sexes".

It can be found at

http://dailybeacon.utk.edu/issues/v83/n25/op-embry.25v.html

It states that despite a changing world where more women

than ever are achieving success in the workplace, sex

roles are still holding everyone back. It says women

are taught at a young age to be dependent on their

future husbands (implying an importance of their

appearance over success in school), and husbands are

taught that they must make a lot of money to support

their future family. It also criticizes the draft,

wherein only men are forced to sign up, perpetuating the

myth that women are the weaker sex.

Message no. 762[Branch from no. 698]
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 4:19pm
Subject Re: Roles of the Sexes

In response to Roderic...

I think the articles you found are very interesting.

The first one gives a historical account of women's and

men's role in providing for their family. As times goes

on, these roles definitely change,you can't necessarily

apply it to today's world. In addition, it also depends

how your're parents raised you, to be either gender

neutral or to perpetuate gender stereotypes set by their

examlpes.

As for the 2nd article, I think it's total bologne. I

think the only women who have to depend on their looks

to be taken care of by a man are women who don't have

any respect in themselves and are probably not to bright

to make a living of their own.

Message no. 719
Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:12am
Subject the fighting women of the US military!

with all this talk and airing of war images, i began to

think about the various roles that women play in our

armed services...especially with the rescue of the brave

female POW (Pfc. Jessica Lynch, from Palestine, WV). i

found the site: http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/

it is dedicated to the history of women in the military.

it covers women from all the way back as far as the

civil war. women originally were mostly medics and

nurses, not really playing a role in the actual combat

operations or logistics of the battle. through world

war 1, women played a very passive role...but in WWII

that changed. women were finally allowed to fly, not in

combat, but they played a key logistical part in the

actual war...transporting allied aircraft from

manufacturer to battlefield (they were known as WASPs).

now, women are getting so close to the front lines that

they are even elligible, and able to be taken as

prisoners of war. this shows that although it is a slow

evolution, women's roles in a historically male

dominated aspect of our society is becoming increasingly

important and active.

Message no. 811[Branch from no. 719]
Sunday, April 13, 2003 8:39pm
Subject Re: the fighting women of the US military!

I'm glad to see that in this day and age more women are

playing active roles in the U.S. military. It is quite

amazing to see how women used to just be nurses and

medics and now they're at the front line. This does

show that women are becoming more equal in a male

dominated society. I really respect the women in

combat. It takes a lot of courage espescially for a

woman as compared to a man to go and fight in a war.

Message no. 833[Branch from no. 719]
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 11:28am
Subject Re: the fighting women of the US military!

The site you found was very interesting. I am touched by

the women's dedication to military in war. I agree with

the statement, "the pure and simple point is that all

jobs shoudl be open to women andmen- if and only if-the

women and men are qualified, capable, competent and able

to perform them! Nothing more, nothing less."

Message no. 733
Sunday, April 6, 2003 3:11pm
Subject the role

i found the site:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/gender/gender22a.htm

this site is by the "Washington post" and it details a

research that was done among some 4-5 thousand men and

women about the topic of gender roles...in the home, in

society, and in the work place.

it was interesting to note, that at one point of the

research, equal amount of men AND women said that it was

more beneficial if a woman could stay home and take care

of the home and the family. i find this interesting in

this day and age where women are pushing harder, and

harder to become equally as successful in the work place

as men are.

Message no. 749
Monday, April 7, 2003 8:51pm
Subject Women's role in Kosovo

While we are talking about change in gender role in

Western society including some other countries, there

are women who are fighting for thier rights. I used

yahoo.com instead of Google this time.

http://www.csmonitor.com/atcsmonitor/specials/women/rights/rights041800.html

The article starts with a common situation, which is not

common in our society, that a father's family takes a

child from his/her mother and the family ask the mother

to leave.

In Kosovo, in working places and family, men still

dominate women, and women are struggling to obtain thier

rights, which we have without any struggle in our

society. The article makes me think about women who

fight for things that I've had ever since I was born in,

and wonder until when or what point we see the ending of

gender-role issue. As a person, I have the right, which

women in Kosovo don't have, as a woman, I've never

expeienced gender role issue myself, which is more than

one step further to reach for women in Kosovo.

Message no. 794
Friday, April 11, 2003 4:43pm
Subject Quotes about women, men, and relationships

I was trying to find more articles on men's role in

relationships. Using the search phrase "men's role in

relationships" in Google, I had no problem finding the

following articles/sites:

 

1) http://www.menweb.org/haltzman1.htm

Did you know that "85% of the variance in whether a

marriage succeeds or fails is based on the husband's

actions and attitude?" This site which is dedicated to

the "secrets of married men," says that men play

important roles in maintaining a successful marriage.

One thing men should do is devote time and effort to

actually listen to their wives; this includes eye

contact and letting her finish talking before offering

just offering a solution or walking away.

 

2) http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/memajs/quotes/men.ht ml

This is part of someone's personal homepage, but you

can just go ahead and read some of the quotes she has

collected regarding men, women, and relationships (most

of them don't put men in a positive light). Here are a

few of the quotes:

"Guys are lucky because they get to grow mustaches. I

wish I could. It's like having a little pet for your

face." - Anita Wise

"You see a lot of smart guys with dumb women, but you

hardly ever see a smart woman with a dumb guy." - Erica

Jong

"Your armor, it shields you from any woman who would

destroy you, sure enough. But unless you let it go, it

will shield you as well from the only one who can love

you, nourish you, save you from your own protection.

There is one perfect woman for you. She is singular,

not plural." - Richard Bach

"Women might be able to fake orgasms. But men can fake

whole relationships." - Sharon Stone

"In the last couple of weeks I have seen the ads for the

Wonder Bra. Is that really a problem in this country?

Men not paying enough attention to women's breasts?" -

Hugh Grant

Message no. 829
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:22am
Subject Gender Roles of the 21st century

Since all the gender roles that have been covered are

all from back in the days, I wanted to look for the

gender roles of the 21st century. I used Yahoo and used

the phrase "21st century gender roles". I had no

problems.

The article I found is exactly what I was looking for

and its at

www-new.uchicago.edu/releases/99/991124.family.shtml.

Its about how the american family went through a major

transformation. Because we live in a society where

there's alot of divorce, cohabitation, and single

parenthood, the next century will have majority of

families rearing children with out both the original

parents.

"Rates of the marriage also are changing according to

class: middle-class people are more likely to marry and

remarry than working-class psople, who are likely to

remain single or cohabitate", according to Tom Smith.

He adds that marriage has declined where children are in

the household (growing # of children are born outside of

marriage). People are marrying later, and divorce and

cohabitate more.

Lastly, the article mentions that: - 1972: 33% of

parents were both working - 1998: 67% of parents

both work * husbands staying home went from 2% to

$%

I really thought this article was good in representing

the current status of gender roles rather than stating

the past "men were the protector and provider, women

were the care-giver and nurturer". It's totally

different know. There's not really a permanent role of

either sex any more.

Message no. 882
Thursday, April 24, 2003 10:24am
Subject Partnership of men and women

In this search I used google. I didn't encounter any

problems during my search. I typed in "women and men's

roles" for my search words.

I came across this website:

http://www.warc.ch/dp/women.html

In this article, I found...

There was a quote...We begin with the basic biblical

affirmation: "So God created humankind in his image, in

the image of God he created them; male and female he

created them" (Gen 1.27).

We no longer live in the Garden of Eden, but we live in

a society that has broken relationships between men and

women. As a result, the women suffers from being

undervalued and treated as inferior to men. Gender roles

are historically, socially, and culturally constructed.

Sexism is a structured sin and should be denounced and

eliminated.

We want the power of the holy spirit to guide us into

God's mission and to guide us in building just and right

relationships among individuals and groups as Jesus

Christ intended. The task of breaking gender roles

requires commitment and faithfulness to God as we strive

to break the chains of unjust relationships with the

assurance: "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no

longer slave or free, there is no longer male and

female; for all are one in Christ Jesus" (Gal 3.28).

Message no. 886
Thursday, April 24, 2003 10:04pm
Subject Know your role!

For this weeks research topic I chose "A woman's and a

man's role." I was interested in finding out whether

men actually felt his role in a relationship is to

cooperate with a woman's effort to "improve" him. This

assumes that the man needs improvement to begin with,

which I have a hard time accepting. So I tyed in

"woman's role" on Google.com and came up with an

exceptional article taking the man's point of view of

what the woman's role is in a relationship. the article

can be found at this address:

askmen.com/money/mafioso_60187_mafia.html The search

took a little longer than I figured it would but in the

end I found something worth the while. I highly

recommend you to read this article, men especially.

Message no. 892
Friday, April 25, 2003 12:08pm
Subject Gender roles in the past

I wasn't looking for anything specific on this topic,

just examples of women and men's roles. I used the

search terms, "women and men's" role on Vivisimo and I

came across this site:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993222

The article states that it might have been women who

were responsible for the "burst of human evolution," not

men. New research suggest that early humans were

actually scavengers not hunters.

"For 40 years, anthropologists have leaned toward the

notion that rich, nourishing meat - brought home by

hunters and shared out - played a crucial role in human

origins. This would explain why evolution selected for

larger, smarter hunters with lighter jaws and teeth:

precisely the changes seen as Homo erectus arose in

eastern Africa.

The hunter-driven scenario also included the formation

of nuclear family groups, in which men hunted while

women gathered plants and cared for their children, thus

kicking off humans' social evolution as well.

But this picture may be wrong on several counts. To

begin with, early men probably were not bringing meat

home to the family. Most evidence of hunting by early

African Homo erectus comes from archaeological sites

containing both animal bones and primitive stone tools.

But most of these lie next to rivers, the kind of

predator-filled habitat that today's Hadza

hunter-gatherers in Tanzania call a "city of lions".

 

Most likely, the "hunters" were not actually hunting

either. Many of the bones bear both cut-marks from

primitive stone tools and the tooth marks of animals.

When the researchers compared these with marks on bones

made in modern experiments, they found that the pattern

of marks and the mix of bones were similar to those left

by human scavengers.

This suggests that early humans drove other predators

away from freshly killed carcasses - a view now gaining

support among palaeoanthropologists."

Message no. 913
Sunday, April 27, 2003 9:56pm
Subject A Woman's Place is in the Home?

I used google for this search and typed in "a woman's

place is in the home". The search pulled up some useful

articles and an online discussion.

The online discussion can be retrieved at

http://www.preloved.co.uk/forums/thread.cfm?thread=2350.

When expressing his ideas on how work should be divided

among husband and wife, one of the participants said

"It's all a case of balancing within the relationship

really, what's right for us may not be right for another

couple".

I agree with what he says. I think there is no absolute

answer to the question of whether a woman's place is in

the home. As long as the children are being raised in a

loving family and know that they are loved, there is no

point in stressing whether the wife or husband should be

the homemaker.

Depending on what each is good at, the husband and wife

can compromise and achieve the "optimal state", like

striking a balance between the Chinese "yin" and "yang".

Message no. 995
Tuesday, May 6, 2003 10:57am
Subject the role

http://www.cyberparent.com/gender/generationsmalesfemalesrole.htm

The role of a woman changes with the setting. In our

changing society the role of women is getting stronger

with the advent of the feminist movement. The further

the women push for the equality the more the change in

our way of life. : THe mans role is also changing in

response to this. They are becoming for "feminised"

which is a good and bad thing. Its good because the

understanding of others feelings is important for self

growth and general well being. But with these changes

comes a larger oppertunity for deception and it is the

nature of man to decieve to survive.

Message no. 1046
Thursday, May 8, 2003 12:19pm
Subject "She Works, He Doesn't"

I was reading an article in Newsweek titled "She Works,

He Doesn't" and decided to find out more about the topic

online.

I used Google and typed in "women"+"sole earners". I was

interested in the first two articles hit, "Women as main

wage earners" and "Minimum wage workers are the sole

breadwinners in about 20,000..." Unfortunately, I was

unable to open any of the two, probably it's because

they're in PDF format and it takes more memory to load

them.

One of the articles

(http://collection.nlc-bnc.ca/100/201/301/daily/daily-h/1995/95-12/951205/d951205.htm#ART1)

states that although women have replaced men as primary

earners in many families, in general they do not match

men's earning power. Although primary-earner wives were

more likely than primary-earner husbands to be employed

in managerial or professional occupations, they made

almost one-third less.

It is true that the roles of men and women are shifting

and swapping, but still it has not attained

"equilibrium" where women can earn as much as men in the

same position.

 

13. DRIVING WITHOUT COMPASSION

Message no. 28
Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:54pm
Subject Ok, am I doing this right?

Dear Dr. James, What in the world is going on?

I've done things like this before, but I suppose I'm

never really sure of myself. But at least that makes me

really cautious when changing lanes...

-VelocityX

Message no. 439[Branch from no. 28]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:02pm
Subject Re: Ok, am I doing this right?

Ok, so I'm still not sure whats going on. Hope the rest

of you know what you're doing. Good luck, lol.

Message no. 50
Friday, January 24, 2003 3:54am
Subject Aggressive Drivers

In my search I was looking for anything that was related

to road rage. The search terms I used were, aggressive

drivers. Some problems that I encountered with this

search was that I received much information that was not

relevant to what I was looking for. I found this site

by using the search engine Google.com. The web address

of the article I looked at is:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/aggdrv.html

The web address describes aggressive drivers and how

to deal with them when encountered with them on the

street.

Every year traffic is just getting worse in this state.

It is only likely that with more cars on the road there

is going to be more people letting out their frustration

while they are behind the wheel. I'm sure everyone has

encountered or is an "aggressive driver". Aggressive

drivers run stop signs, speed, tailgate, weave in and

out of traffic, make unsafe lane changes, make facial

gestures, scream, honk, flash their lights and do the

infamous "one finger wave" to people who are too slow to

get out of their way. The best way to deal with

aggressive drivers is to get out of their way!

Challenging them or attempting to teach them not to mess

with you will only increase your chances of hurting

yourself or others. From my personal experience it is

best to just move out of the way and ignore eye contact

with these drivers because in Hawaii even giving people

the "stink eye" could cause some idiot to chase you down

and smash your rear windshield.

Message no. 72[Branch from no. 50]
Sunday, January 26, 2003 3:07pm
Subject Re: Aggressive Drivers

I agree with you in that traffic is getting worse these

days in Hawaii. There are a lot of vicious drivers out

there. I am, sad to say, related to a couple of them. My

sister-in-law, for example, is a very agressive driver

and I think it is to make up for her size(she isn't even

5 feet tall)...but anyways, she would honk and hollar at

and tail people who would piss her off. This to me is

extremely stupid behavior. First of all she has 2 young

children in the car with her most of the time and it

angers me that she would put her kids at risk just to

let other drivers know how she feels about them. So

whenever I ride in the car with her, I yell at her when

she starts to drive like a maniac, and I also have this

"no honking rule." I know this is kind of getting off

the subject, but I also feel that people who drink and

drive are lame too. I mean if you don't care whether you

die or not, then fine...but don't put other people's

lives at risk. I always hear about accidents involving a

drunk driver killing or severely injuring other

passengers, while he gets away without a scratch on his

ass. I admit though, I did drink and drive in the past,

but I promised never to do it again because I really

thought about it and decided it's just not worth it. I'd

rather spend a few extra bucks to call a cab, than spend

the rest of my life in jail living with the fact that I

had taken someone else's life.

Message no. 282[Branch from no. 72]
Friday, February 14, 2003 9:41am
Subject Re: Aggressive Drivers

I agree that agressive drivers affect everyone on the

road. With traffic increasing at a ridiculous pace

(especially for people living in West Oahu) we as

drivers in Hawaii need to learn to relax adn avoid

agressive drivers. I also agree that the best course of

action with these idiots is to get out of their way.

Road rage is a serious matter and should not be taken

lightly. I've seen relatively normal people go crazy

behind the wheel in traffic for no apparent reason.

Perhaps I should look into more studies about road rage

and aggressive driving. Personally, I do like to speed

a litlle. However, I try not to tail or weave because I

know the dangers of driving like this. My father is a

drivers' education instructor, and I remember him

preaching defensive driving to me my entire driving

life. If everyone drives defensively and with a little

aloha, our state would be a safer, more enjoyable place

to drive in.

Message no. 123[Branch from no. 50]
Friday, January 31, 2003 3:30pm
Subject Re: Aggressive Drivers

traffic and aggressive driving are a problem in this

state. the number of cars on the road seem to be

doubleing every couple of months. this means there is

that much more chance of accidents and of course there

are more drivers on the road. people in this state are

very concered with their own time. if they have

something to do for someone else they are on hawaiian

time but if its something for them then they get very

frustraighted about insignificant seconds or minutes.

the roads in hawaii are getting more and more crowded

and frustaraighting. perhaps we should find another

means of transportation

Message no. 168[Branch from no. 123]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 10:36pm
Subject Re: Aggressive Drivers

Bike, LOL.

Message no. 585[Branch from no. 123]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:51pm
Subject Re: Aggressive Drivers

Yes it is true that there are way too many cars on the

road nowaday compared to the available road space, but

that is not the problem. The problem is or are the

people of hawaii who are driving on these roads. It is

inevitable that congestion will occur. And to simply

blame reasons of anger and hostility on environmental

conditions, such as traffic, is unacceptable. Look at

any other situation where over crowding occurs. Say at

Ala Moana during christmas time. Yes it's crowded, and

yes people are in a rush so that they dont get left

behind but isn't it the responsibility of the individual

to restrain adverse emotions and to control their

behavior? The problem isn't that people nowdays are

all in a rush, and this inturn leads to road rage, but

rather that there are a few, repeat offenders who need

to be notified that they are aggressive drivers. Some

of them may know and others may not. For those who

know, they must be punished. And those who don't know

must be warned. Look at racing. If you get caught,

your license will be revoked for up to one year and your

car may be seized by the state. What about aggressive

driving? I had someone, a grown man in a jaguar try to

run me off the road once because he was in a rush. Then

when he finally got by he started calling me out and he

wanted to fight me. He followed me for almost ten miles

before I lost him. I informed the police but they said

there was nothing that they could do but talk to him

about not doing that kind of stuff. There is no

justice, so why should people act like there is.

Although it is the job of police to enforce these kinds

of things, who will listen to the rules if there is no

price to pay?

Message no. 175[Branch from no. 50]
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 5:00pm
Subject Re: Aggressive Drivers

I agree that we should ignore that person who is trying

to take their frustrations out on us while driving.

Hawaii is such a small state with little roadways that

aggressive driving behaviors is inevitable. Then there

are the people who are from other states or countries,

who are used to driving aggressively because that was

their "norm" and they are used to congested roadways.

But what it comes down to is that there is no excuse for

unacceptable rude behaviors that we must endure from

those who are trying to take their frustrations out on

us while driving.

Message no. 541[Branch from no. 50]
Friday, March 14, 2003 9:40am
Subject Re: Aggressive Drivers

i totally agree with you about ignoring those agressive

drivers. when I drive, I just turn on my radio and

drive. If I do something wrong, I wave and apologize,

but if they give me a stink eye, that's ok. I don't

need the added stress and frustration.

Message no. 73
Sunday, January 26, 2003 4:09pm
Subject Road Rage

I did my research on the topic of "driving without

compassion." I wanted to find some information on what

causes people to drive aggressively. The search engine I

used is yahoo and the terms I used to do my search are

"aggressive driving." I had no problems with this

search.

http://www.aaafoundation.org/resources/index.cfm?button=agdrtext#2A

There were a couple of interesting points that were

brought up on this site. First the author mentioned that

"road rage extends beyond the immediate incident." He

means that a certain driver could have been having an

extremely bad day either at work or at home. He also

mentioned that our aggressive behavior could be compared

to those in animals. There have been studies done on

rats and also primates on how they react to

overcrowding. Like other animals, the author mentions

that humans are territorial and will act in a defensive

manner when they feel their personal space is being

threatened. Naturally, with the growing number of

automobiles on our streets and highways, we are seeing

more and more hostile driving behaviors.

Message no. 119[Branch from no. 73]
Friday, January 31, 2003 2:55pm
Subject Re: Road Rage

I agree with the research that you found. I think road

rage is becoming a terrible problem and people need to

be held responsible for their actions. I had never

thought of it the way of personal space and personal

property. But when stopping and thinking about it, my

car is my space and I treat it like that. I do not let

anyone in that I feel threatened by. I can now see why

people take it so personally. They feel like you have

invaded their private space (the car) and have put their

most prized possessions (the family) at risk. I believe

thinking of it in this manner is going to make me think

a little differently while driving. I will definitely

put this into practice, ASAP. I do not like people

barging into my space, so I should not barge (cut them

off) into thier lives.

Message no. 246[Branch from no. 73]
Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:13pm
Subject Re: Road Rage

I agree with deni ramiro. I searched the site that deni

used which was: www.aaafoundation.org I agree that there

is just to many people on the road in this age. It feels

that every legal person that can drive has there own

car. The roads are just completely overcrowded, and

veryone is looking for there own space. We being humans

are territorial, especially us men. If we are in an area

on the road it is counted a our space, as long a we a

occupying it. When on the road no one cares about each

other but themselves. This is how we have problems of

road rage. Especially because we are in a little

confined space in our car causing us to become fustrated

at times, especially in rush hour traffic. Lack of

compassion is why we have so many problems on the roads.

Message no. 79
Sunday, January 26, 2003 9:22pm
Subject response to "road rage"

Yes, I agree that road rage encompasses much more then

just the act. When we're on the road we need to think

about why that person is doing what they are doing.

What if they just caught there other half having an

affair and decided that going to work could take their

mind off of it...it won't but it was just an example.

We need to be more polite about driving or one day we

will be a statistic.

Message no. 80
Sunday, January 26, 2003 9:27pm
Subject why do we drive without compassion?

Well, many people do it because they're in a rush, while

other people are just impatient and want to get to where

they are going RIGHT NOW!! I found this webpage:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9708/26/road.ignorance/. And they

are talking about trying to get a campaign going for

less aggressive driving and another website that I was

at said they should make the driving test more thorough

so that the individual can be scored also on calmness,

etc. Either way I do agree that people need to stop

driving like maniacs.

Message no. 142[Branch from no. 80]
Monday, February 3, 2003 6:54pm
Subject Re: why do we drive without compassion?

okay, so how does the campaign propose to lessen

aggressive driving when it is an inward emotion with an

outward manifestation? oftentimes aggressive driving is

learned through parental, media or social stimuli. how

does the campaign propose to "unlearn" these behaviors?

can the by-and-large system discipline an inward emotion

until the outward manifestation has occurred? doubtful.

so what do people have in mind to do with us until we

learn to manage our emotions? better yet, what is the

plan to teach us to manage our emotions on a grand

scale? lie-detector empathy tests at the DMV? i

wouldn't bank on it.

Message no. 170[Branch from no. 142]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 10:57pm
Subject Re: why do we drive without compassion?

Yes, so we inheret habitual bad driving and are

further influenced by society, images through the media,

and gain other destructive qualities messages. Worst of

all, we both "expect" and "are expected" to be aware of

it. I love the idea of "teaching the young"

good qualities of driving through schooling efforts, it

seems like a promising and potential way to improve our

world, or at least our region. The real problem is on

how to go about implementing this proposal. Hmmmm, on

the other hand, there are indeed many other contributing

factors that lead to aggressive driving and behavior

that constitutes as a problematic form of conduct.

After all, they have been saying "say no to drugs" for a

very long time now. If you know what I mean.

Message no. 172[Branch from no. 80]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 11:21pm
Subject Re: why do we drive without compassion?

Jeeze, if you think about it, what are we-- a

handful? We're not even a fraction of the 175 million

licensed drivers that are, by the way, not in such an

enlightening class like the one that we have been

fortunate enough to take. Anyway, perhaps one day

people will realize the dangers brought on from bad

driving by recognizing the level of aggressive behavior

that constitutes as a problematic form of conduct.

I am wondering if a mandatory class, like the one we

are in, could be implemented in all middle and high

schools, Nationally? It would at least be an effort

against this rather severe problem.

Message no. 461[Branch from no. 80]
Saturday, March 1, 2003 2:05pm
Subject Re: why do we drive without compassion?

I think you are right, Donna, people do need to stop

driving like maniacs. Our roads get very scarey some

days. I do not like to drive in the rain here in

Hawaii. People drive crazy. I have had people almost

stop right on the highway b/c it started to rain. Give

me a break! This is so extremely dangerous. Rain is

not going to make your car go out of control. You just

need to give each other a little more room and drive a

little more patient. No crazy lane changes.

About the driving testing here in the Untied States. I

think before we try change the way we test, we need to

make testing the same in every state. Some states

(Washington) make you take the driving test to get a

license in their state. Other states (Hawaii) just

makes you pass a written test. Why is it so different?

I think it should be the same in every state.

Message no. 107
Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:13pm
Subject Rage on the Road...

Guilty! Thats the word that describes me, and road

rage...guilty as charged! I'll admit it, I am pretty

much the personafication of road rage. I am usually

very mild mannered, but with how stressful and detailed

my "driver's ed" experience was when I was 15 (thanks

dad!) it infuriates me when I see others driving like

IDIOTS!! For example, the thing that really can get me

going is watching these little PUNK 16 yr olds who got

their liscense YESTERDAY, have parents who'll pay to

"rev" up their cars, and they saw "Fast 'n Furious" a

couple times and they THINK that they know how to drive!

They go racing around the streets, during rush hour,

cutting people off, not using their blinkers AND THEN

THEY END UP KILLING A FAMILY!!! It's stupidity like

this that just gets me frustrated. This goes for lots

of the other demonstrations of stupidity...not using

your blinkers (they're there for a reason), not WAVING

to thank someone for letting you cut in, NOT letting

someone merge...all things that get my blood boiling on

the road. And...like many male's I am not ashamed to

stick my head out of a window and tell that other driver

where to remove their head from.

Road Rage is a very interesting topic to me, while it is

also a very new "research" area. I have always enjoyed

observing others while it is happening, and even

thinking about what happens when I undergo the "rage."

I found an interesting article in my search that brings

some of the dangerous points of road rage to light:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/18/aggresive.driving/

It is a CNN report on deaths that are caused because

people allow their emotions to go too far. It talks

about a boy who was severely injured and lost his mother

because another driver was driving too recklessly. It

also goes into how road rage even goes into the "rager"

killing the person he/she is "raging" at.

In my mind, it is rediculous! I admitted earlier that I

do allow myself to get a little worked up on the road,

sometimes, but at the same time, I can not believe that

there are people SHOOTING eachother over things like

this. I even think that getting out of the car and

fighting (also has happened to me...but I wasn't the one

who got out first) is stupid over little road quarrels.

Road Rage, when you think about it, is probably the most

immature display of emotions that I can think of in

adult society. What are we reall doing? When we rage

out at another vehicle or driver, we are really saying

"HEY, I AM TOO IMMATURE TO CONTROL MY EMOTIONS, SO I'M

GOING TO YELL BECAUSE IT MAKES ME FEEL BETTER, BUT WON'T

ACTUALLY HELP THE SITUATION!" Thats what we are REALLY

yelling. Of course, some things are just dumb and we

wittness lots of stupid driving out there...but is it

worth getting shot over? Somehow, I really don't think

so!

With that in mind, I think that if everyone pays

attention to how they're driving, understand that "I" am

not the only one on the road...we will all get along a

lot better on the road. Provided all the idots with

driver's liscenses are put on a secluded island, with no

cars!! (that last line was a joke, by the way) ;)

Message no. 109[Branch from no. 107]
Friday, January 31, 2003 8:13am
Subject Re: Rage on the Road...

I definitely agree with you on all the things that get

us annoyed about these "bad" drivers. I, for instance,

absolutely hate it when I'm blinking like forever and a

person won't let me merge into their lane or else,

several people speed up before a "nice" person lets me

into their lane. I also hate it when the person in front

of me doesn't use their blinker and brakes at the very

last instance to make a sharp turn. As for people not

waving to acknowledge that I let them cut in front of

me, I think I've grown accustomed to it; when they do

wave however, I feel a little more gratified and think

my day is going great. There have been few instances in

which I have contributed to this growing phenomenon of

road rage, but most of the time, I force myself not to

stress over it. It just makes me realize the importance

of "defensive driving"; you have to "defend"

(preferably, in a positive, non-life-threatening

manner) yourself from all these idiots on the road.

I visited the site that you recommended and what

interested me was how Dr. Arnold Neremberg, a

psychologist, labels road rage "a mental disorder." I

suppose I can understand how he came to that

conclusion. I mean, it all starts with their appraisal

of an event that causes them to act however they do act

and to treat this "mental disorder," they will need

some kind of therapy to lessen their road rage.

Message no. 167[Branch from no. 107]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 10:28pm
Subject Re: Rage on the Road...

It seems that most people don't feel that there is

a reason to obey the law, or conduct themselves

rationally. Not everyone is (and it is rather rare to

find someone who is) AWARE that they are doing anything

wrong on the road. They do not put it as a priority,

and even if they did they would have to see the behavior

in question as problematic, agressive, and/or provoking

(at the least).

First things first: In order to change WE must

understand this; we must understand that we/they do not

recognize that we/they are acting aggressively on the

road. From there we must see what we can do, so

hopefully our generation (18) will be a productive one.

Message no. 128
Friday, January 31, 2003 5:29pm
Subject aggressive driving

For my forum I looked for information on road rage. I

had no problems searching for this topic. I used the

search engine google typing in "agressive driving". One

website that was very interesting was

www.aaafoundation.org it included information about

three different studies done. I choose to read the

survey about road rage. The term road rage refers to

EXTREME acts of aggression such as physical assult.

The results were very interesting. In Jan. 1995, they

surveyed 526 motorist. 90% of them had expereinced road

rage. 60% admitted to losing there temper behind the

wheel.

Message no. 239[Branch from no. 128]
Monday, February 10, 2003 5:49pm
Subject Re: aggressive driving

Good article, it was very informative. I was wondering

what the stats are for Hawaii, and if the low speed

limit we have here reflects the percentage of

aggression. When I was looking at the website you

offered, I found a funny little road rage quiz:

http://www.aaafoundation.org/quizzes/index.cfm?button=aggressive

...

I don't have a car, I wonder is that lowers my

aggression level all together?

Message no. 357[Branch from no. 239]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:32am
Subject Re: aggressive driving

I don‚t have a car either, but when I go home and visit

my mom my stress levels rise the instant I get in the

car with her. She seems to get worse and worse every

time I go home to visit her. She has come to have a

negative outlook on people, telling me that no one is

polite or respectful in this world anymore. She has

responded to these crazy drivers with her own form of

rage in which she sometimes gets my sister to give

someone the „angry fistš as she drives by those that

have annoyed her in her daily routine. I tried to

explain to her that if she didn‚t focus on other drivers

and attribute their behaviors to „wanting to make her

mad,š she might not be so angry at them. I don‚t think

that most drivers are on the road to annoy other people.

I think it is funny how my mom‚s perceptions have

changed so much, and even though she is a rational

person, it is hard to reason with her about this point.

Message no. 152
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 2:33pm
Subject Rage and the open road

Using google.com as my search engine, I was looking for

the resolution aspect of driving without compassion. I

used the key words "'driving aggresssion' and treatment"

and found a great site at

http://www.aaafoundation.org/resources/research/agdrtext.cfm#Aggressive

Driving (note the space between Aggressive and Driving).

The website is published by the AAA trafic safety

department and contains three studies: aggressive

driving, road rage, and driver aggression. Each article

serves a unique purpose. The aggressive driving article

looks at many aspects including the role of domestic

violence and racism. It also gives a disturbing list of

weapons that have been used in incidents before. The

road rage article looks a many things including avoiding

succumbing to and being a victim of road rage. The

driver aggression article looks at a more psychological

aspect of this important issue, including mechanisms for

rage and aggression as well as environmental factors

like overcrowding and temperature (as in the hotter it

is, the more aggitated crowds and individuals can

become). This site is awesome, especially for our class

discussions.

Message no. 178[Branch from no. 152]
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 8:42pm
Subject Re: Rage and the open road

I really liked the article you've chosen. It gives

insight on how to avoid road rage, why it occurs, and a

lot more useful information. I personally have learned

a lot from this. Road rage definitely starts out

psychologically then if acted upon becomes an act of

agression. When people are behind the wheel they feel

powerful and invincible. I mean we don't see people

having sidewalk rage. I think driving a vehicle is like

putting on a mask. You feel that you can do things you

normally wouldn't do and you don't feel ashamed by it

because you're in the safety of your vehicle. Hopefully

people will learn to keep their cool, and think safety

first before they decide to do something they might

regret.

Message no. 268[Branch from no. 178]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 7:40pm
Subject Re: Rage and the open road

I remember an incident of sidewalk rage. I was walking

to get a course text/packet from "Professional Image"

when this guy on a bike comes from behind while I was

waiting for the light to change and almost runs me over.

Not only did he shout at me for "being in his way," but

he came back and lectured me on "paying attention" to

what I am doing. I suppose the sidewalk was designed

for biking; What a shame it wasn't called the "sidebike"

instead of "sidewalk!" There is no doubt that this

person has problems, and he would have done just as bad

in an automobile (if not worse). Rage of any kind is

not good, road rage is just more profound because the

implications are different when you're in a giant mass

of moving metal: The problem remains the same.

Message no. 173
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 12:24am
Subject Videogame Violence

I'm already bored with running over prostitutes.

The fun only lasts for a while. So was it worth 60

bucks for the infamous video game known as Grand Theft

Auto 3 (GTA3)? No. It's a good thing it was a gift

from some friends. Important friends to me, mind you.

I am proud to announce to the world that I have not run

over any people on the road in the real world, and God

forbid anyone damage my car in any way. "In the real

world." Yeah, I think that's what they call it

nowadays. He he, anyway, I found a nice little

page-o-information that showed me that people are

effected by these violent games that recently appeared

in this new cybernetic era that we live in:

http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp784772.html

It apparently taught me that men are more susceptable to

the violent or aggressive effects of these games and

that no one should play them... ever. After all, there

are no good things in having violent thoughts. It did

mention some on the effects of the games: I

learned that personological and situational input

variables, can influence the present internal state of

the person: Cognitive, affective, and arousal variables.

So people who score high on measures of aggressive

personality have highly accessible knowledge structures

for aggression-related information, or something, and

they tend think aggressive thoughts more frequently than

those individuals who score low on the aggressive

personality measures. In their words:

"...have social perception schemas that lead to hostile

perception, expectation, and attributional biases."

However, there were some sections that stated that there

is presently no empirical evidence on whether playing a

violent video game increases accessibility of aggressive

thoughts. It is a wonder if the evidence on the type or

kind people who are prone to such games were not enough

to come to a conclusion.

So many things influence our actions (and

reactions), some people can handle, some cannot, and

some hate it. But if the MAJORITY of people are willing

to pay for more of it because they don't see it as a

problem, there will always be more-- Fun, Problems, and

Hate.

Message no. 220[Branch from no. 173]
Friday, February 7, 2003 5:11pm
Subject Re: Videogame Violence

My husband also has the Grand theft auto game and I can

also say he has never run anyone over or killed a

prostitute for money. I do feel that violence in games,

music and televison influence us but it is ultimately

our decision as to how we handle ourselves and the

choices we make. The web site was very interesting and

I am sure there will be plenty of studies on the

correlation/relation of violence and the media. In my

case I have played the game and found myself wanting to

crash into cars on the street, wishing I didn't care

about my car and there would not be any consequences as

in the game but my common sense knows that in the "real

world" there are consequences and I do care about my

car. Those people who may take the game seriously not

only need help with road rage but a course in reality.

Message no. 247[Branch from no. 220]
Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:21pm
Subject Re: Videogame Violence

Kimberly has a good point. Video games are just to have

fun with, not to take it out into reality. There are no

consequences when playing a video game, but in reality

you can hurt, kill, or injure someone or yourself. I

play video games such as grand theft auto but I do not

take it on the road and think I can kill prostitutes or

run people over. I count it as a game and thats it.

Music on the other hand can change the main stream of

thinking or driving of a person. I am one of these

people who feed on the music. When I listen to soft or

hawaiian music I drve pretty decently, but when I am

listening to ahrd rock I become a whole different

driver. I cut people off, speed, flick people off, and

many other things. Music to me can chage someones

driving not a video game. People that cannot tell the

difference between a game from reality really need some

psychiatric help, maybe even me with music.

Message no. 565[Branch from no. 173]
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 5:36pm
Subject Re: Videogame Violence

reply message to video game violence

I'm not an avid fan of video games but, I do, once in a

blue moon, play them with my friends or brothers. I

must admit though, that I get a little violent with

those stupid games. Sometimes, I would punch and swear

with at my brothers for them "killing" me or "beating"

me at the game. But don't worry-- it only happens with

violent games like grand auto theft where my adrenaline

rises. I would like to say, it MAKES me act that way

but I know that I don't have to behavior in such

manners. But I do think it's hard when it's fun to bang

other cars and defeat others. I guess my point is--

that sometimes it can be hard to distingush reality from

videogames. I mean if you play it enough, like it's

your only friend, then how to you know when the game is

really over? I mean, once in while, I feel like I'm

playing video games when I'm driving. I drive over the

45 mile speed limit, cut in and out of lanes, or like a

policeman would say "driving reckless" but it can seem

so normal--like I'm immune to it.

Message no. 568[Branch from no. 565]
Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:24am
Subject Re: Videogame Violence

Whoa, at least you're not an avid fan. As fun as

you find these video games, if you are having trouble

with differenciating between the boundry of fantasy and

reality, or if you are just trying to make conversation

(and fulfill a requirement), you must consider staying

away from these games. Or at least refrain from

accessing them right before operating a vehicle. ;)

Thanks.

Message no. 586[Branch from no. 568]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:01pm
Subject Re: Videogame Violence

People would hate to discredit the idea that video game

violence in real life, but the truth is that it does.

After yeard of playing video games it isn't hard for me

to differentiate between reality and a game, but

sometimes it just seems like so much more fun to think

that your life is like a game. As such this leads to

the point that all of the things that you experience in

this wold contribute to who you are. Your past

experiences determine the way you think and the things

that you think about. So, if you play violent video

games five hours a day, which is not uncommon for people

to do, then what does this say about that persons mental

atmosphere? Video games are a very positive way to

release stress and tension, but sometimes people get to

far into it, like a religion if you will. This then

translates into them making decisions based on some form

of intergrated fantasy/reality world in which they

reside. It would be easy to call these people freaks,

but they are people like everyone else, many of whcih

are upstanding citizens who do nothing wrong. You

cannot convict a peson for the way they think. And for

the few who do get violent and blame it on video games,

they are a speck of the population of the people who

play these games. This would be the equivalent of

saying that all arabs and muslims are terrorists, which

we know is not the case.

Message no. 624[Branch from no. 586]
Friday, March 28, 2003 11:30am
Subject Re: Videogame Violence

Hi Ralo,

I started this thread early in the semester. You have a

lot of good points: Perhaps "all of the things that you

experience in this world contribute to who you are." I

would more likely guess that A LOT or MOST of the things

you experience contribute to who you are, but hey.

"Your past experiences determine the way you think and

the things that you think about." Here I would guess

CERTAIN things that you experience affect CERTAIN

people, right? Right, anyway I like the ending of your

reply where you realize the importance of not

overgeneralizing. One should be wary of that fact that

people like to accentuate the negative. This holds true

in many aspects. Nearly every problem that you see

cannot affect every person. But, listening to my own

advice, I'm sure there are some things that do pose such

a threat. Like World Wars.

A videogame will always be a nothing but a game

unless the person affected cannot handle that fact. You

are right to assume that not everyone is. Now the

problem that we must address is how to help those

affected. So far the most viable factor is age

restriction. No doubt that has had a majority effect,

but I imagine it had a crummy one. I know of many kids

that play games that "good kids" have to wait until they

are "old enough" to play. I suppose mental age is too

hard to determine, so we will have to settle with

chronological age. Answers. Where are the answers.

Who will put them into effect? Only time will tell.

Message no. 174
on Wednesday, February 5, 2003 4:51pm
Subject Congestion or lack of compassion?

I looked for the reasons aggressive driving occurs,

whether due to congestion and time pressure or from lack

of compassion for other people on the road. Using the

search engine MSN, I typed aggressive driving and found

an article at

http://www.aaafoundation.org/resources/index.cfm?button=agdrtext#2B

This article states that road rage occurs from

frustrations or overcrowding and that humans are

territorial in nature. This is a great site because it

defines their perspective on what road rage is, advice

for motorists, and "cures" for road rage.

Another article I read

http://www.drivers.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?type=ART&id=000000462&static=1

This article is about the lack of common courtesy or

lack of compassion. It also defines the difference

between road rage and aggressive driving.

Message no. 525[Branch from no. 174]
Monday, March 10, 2003 11:20am
Subject Re: Congestion or lack of compassion?

Living in Hawaii all my life, I have seen congestion on

the freeways all the time. I think there are to many

cars on the road as well as lack of compassion or

courtesy.I reserched on the search engine google, I

found some information on www.drivers.com. What I had

just stated above is true. There is no compassion or

courtesy on the road.

On the road everyone is for themselves causing traffic

to become worse. I have noticed that when there is

traffic and someone wants to murge in a lane people

speed up so the person cannot get in. Also this

happens when people want to murge on the freeway.

If people start to show compassion and courtesy on the

road traffic might be a little better, As well as if

everyone has a limit to a certain number of cars per

family. Congession is also caused by to many car on the

road.

Message no. 183
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 10:39pm
Subject Another opinion about road rage

I was trying to understand the concept of road rage:

what it is, what triggers it, and how others around us

are effected by it.

I used the Yahoo search engine, and the words and

phrases I used were: "aggressive driving", "rage on the

road", and "hostile drivers".

 

I had very little problem finding this article, because

the site descriptions were accurate, and I was able to

determine which articles would be useful -- and which

would not be relevant.

http://www.nyu.edu/pubs/counterblast/issue1_nov01/articles/schuchardt.html

In this article Read Mercer Schuchardt of NYU debunked

Atlantic Monthly journalist Michael Fumento's articles

about "road rage" as a media fad. Read Mercer Schuchardt

found over 4,000 usages of the term in the popular media

from 1988 to 1994 but according to actual statistics

there was very little documentation to support or

describe actual aggressive behavior.

Message no. 199
Friday, February 7, 2003 7:28am
Subject Driving w/o Compassion

I think this says it all, "Driving without compassion".

This I think is the definition of road rage. This

society has changed into a "ME" culture. We do not care

about other people, only ourselves. We do not seem to

think that other people have feelings also. Most people

are so into theirselves that they do not think that

other people are dealing with the same types of problems

and issues that we are. We all have been late to work

one time or another. We all have busy lives. We all

have families with demands. I think that is what

everyone has forgotten. People need to stop and realize

that they are not unique. Most people deal with the

same problems that everyone deals with, but in our

society we think we are the only one. This to me is the

lack of compassion. Compassion means: sympathy,

empathy, concern, kindness, consideration, and care.

Lack of compassion = Lack of consideration. I am an

aggressive driver. I have been consciously working on

my attitude for about 5 years now. Most of the time

when someone cuts me off or almost hits me b/c they did

not look, I try to blow it off and not to get upset. I

try to remind myself that I too have made mistakes while

driving. Nobody is perfect. I now do not get real

upset most of the time. I guess I am trying to drive

with more compassion.

I did my search using google with the terms "road rage",

"driving without compassion", and "aggressive driving".

When I used "driving withour compassion" the only thing

that came up was Dr. Leon James Forum Discussions. My

other searches gave me a tremendous amount of

information. There is a lot of material on this

subject. I found a road rage quiz @:

http://webhome.direct.com/~kehamitt/rage.htm I also

found an article from 1998:

www.theatlantic.com/issues/98aug/roadrage.htm I also

found an a site to try to help prevent rod rage:

www.roadragers.com I think the best site was:

www.aaafoundation.org/resources/index.cfm?button=agdrtext#aggressive%20driving

Also in a couple of the other sites, I found quotes from

our very own Dr. Driving, Dr. Leon James.

Message no. 211
Friday, February 7, 2003 12:45pm
Subject Discussion Groups about Driving without Compassion

I tried to search for driving without compassion topic

and I was looking to see how aggressive driving is

affected by traffic congestion and lack of compassion.

I did not have problems with this search. I actually

preferred this group discussion page because it offers

people's experiences and opinions about driving so it

was interesting to see what they had to say.

Database http://www.google.com/grphp?hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Articles

1. "Re: A list of driving hazards" by David Chen

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=aggressive+Driving+%2Btraffic+congestion&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=Pine.OSF.3.96.980512015958.7715N-100000%40osf1.gmu.edu&rnum=2

Reply on a list made about driving hazards and arguments

made against them

2. "An 'epidemic' of aggressive driving"

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=aggressive+Driving+%2Btraffic+congestion&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=5lbb2k%24nuk%40freenet-news.carleton.ca&rnum=3

Argument that aggressive driving is increasing

3.http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22road+rage%22+%2Bcompassion&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=32948F46.620C%40aloha.net&rnum=5

A discussion group where Dr. James talks to someone

about realizing compassion when driving

4.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=97cbkv%248uk%241%40news.cadence.com&rnum=6&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522road%2Brage%2522%2B%252Bcompassion%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D97cbkv%25248uk%25241%2540news.cadence.com%26rnum%3D6

A discussion of an incident of road rage and how they

might approach it later on, others argue you don't need

compassion because if the other person is carrying a gun

then you should not care whether you are rude or not.

 

Keywords Driving without compassion (12,500) Driving

+traffic congestion (14,400) aggressive driving +traffic

congestion (516) aggressive driving + lack of compassion

(702) "aggressive driving"+lack of compassion (2) "road

rage"+lack of compassion (74) "road rage"+compassion(337)

Message no. 462[Branch from no. 211]
Saturday, March 1, 2003 2:20pm
Subject Re: Discussion Groups about Driving without Compassion

I looked at the website by David Chen, who worte the

list of driving hazards. I am going to have to disagree

with him that driving 10 mph over the posted speed

limits is unsafe. I did some research on speed limits

and some states keep lower limits to make more money in

fines. Also, speed limits are always posted about 15

mph under the "safe" speen that our DMV's and

governments are saying. So driving 10 mph over is just

as safe as the posted limits. I think that people stick

with the 10 mph over the limit b/c car speedometer are

made to be within 5 mph of the actual speed. And cops

have to give a little leeway. So the general rule is

that you will not get a ticket unless you are 10 mph

over the posted speed. I think that is why most people

stay only about 10 mhp over on the highways.

Message no. 221
Friday, February 7, 2003 5:48pm
Subject Aggressive driving and road rage: they aren‚t the same

Ok This is not my opinion but the name of the article I

read. What I was searching for was any type of road

rage in Hawaii, but I came across this article that I

thought many of our classmates would be interested to

read. The search term I used was Road rage in Hawaii. I

didn't have any problems with this search but a lot of

related sites. The web address is:

http://www.drivers.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?type=ART&id=000000462&static=1

but you can also use www.drivers.com I thought that it

was very interesting that the author defined aggressive

driving as forms of negligent or inconsiderate driving.

For example, following too closely, speeding, unsafe

lane changes, failing to signal intent to change lanes,

and others. And their definition for road rage is,

criminal offense which occurs when a traffic incident

escalates into a far more serious situation. I guess

the author failed to see that the "aggressive drivers"

are often those that are "road rage" drivers and that

"aggressive behaviors" lead to criminal offenses.

Message no. 295[Branch from no. 221]
Friday, February 14, 2003 4:16pm
Subject Re: Aggressive driving and road rage: they aren‚t the same

Though this was an interesting article/post, I'll have

to disagree with the author of the article as well.

While it seems plain that road rage and aggressive

driving aren't the same thing, it was odd that the

author limited both simply to the laws the behaviour

might violate e.g. "Aggressive driving is a traffic

offence or combination of offences such as..." and "Road

rage, on the other hand, is a criminal offence" While

this may be true in some cases, surely nor are all

incidents either aggressive driving or road rage, nor

are all cases of road rage or aggressive driving

exemplified as here. The distinction is an important

one, but it appears the author failed to make it, more's

the pity.

Message no. 240
Monday, February 10, 2003 6:02pm
Subject What bugs you in driving?

In this search, I looked up through Google.com because I

have never used this search engine before. I typed in

'Caused of aggression in driving.' It took me to a good

page: www.drivers.com. Here instead of looking up the

cause of aggression, I clicked to 'discussions.' The

exact discussion that I looked at is:

http://www.drivers.com/discussions/messages/39/80.html?1039689340

Someone posted a list of things that tick her off while

driving. The reply that follows can be classified as

solutions to what she was complaining about. For

instance, she said that when she is going somewhere and

the bus cuts her off or stops abruptly that upsets her,

but the response offered that she doesn't stay in the

bus lane. Driving is logical, if everyone uses their

logic then there is no aggression. We are all trying to

get somewhere.

Message no. 242[Branch from no. 240]
Monday, February 10, 2003 11:05pm
Subject Re: What bugs you in driving?

I think we can all agree that there are a multitude of

factors that need to be taken into consideration when

thinking about how we can change or improve the driver

etiquette that we see on the roads today. I agree with

you that people should logically think about why they

experience and display aggression while driving. It

seems that the more we discuss about factors involved

with road rage, it becomes evident that these factors

add to an increasingly entagled web that may not be

solved with just a simple class that teaches you to deal

with your anger while driving. I really think that

there is a lack of consideration of the roads today and

if people aimed to be more altruistic then we could be

well on our way to abolishing road rage.

Message no. 373[Branch from no. 242]
Friday, February 21, 2003 11:39am
Subject Re: What bugs you in driving?

I agree with you Ana. This class has made me think more

about the other people on the road. We have to learn to

be considerate and understand that we all have done

wrong things while driving. It is NOT personal, most of

the time. But we as drivers take it personally. There

are so many aspects to driving and things we say cause

road rage. I know that I am trying to be a less

agressive driver. I have to work on it everytime I

drive. What helps the most is my attitude when driving.

I try never to be in a bad mood, for whatever reason,

when I get into my car. This will be an area of

continual growth for me.

Message no. 248[Branch from no. 240]
Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:27pm
Subject Re: What bugs you in driving?

There are many things that can tick a person off on the

highways and freeways. When someone cuts someone off,

doesn't let you in, not giving a wave or courtesy, and

many other things. The web site drivers .com gave me

some insite. When I am on the road people who do not

wave really piss me off eitherwhen I let them in or if

they cut me off. This is what really make me mad. I

begin to tail them, cut them off too, or even sometimes

try to run them off the road. If people can just have

courtesy for others it would be an easier place to

drive. Also if traffic is not as bad at times it would

help.

Message no. 269[Branch from no. 240]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 8:10pm
Subject Re: What bugs you in driving?

People use logic as seperate from aggression, for

example: one may feel that aggressive driving is logical

because it makes them feel better (for the moment),

teaches an offender a lesson, proves that they cannot be

messed with, and that it allows them to get to their

destination faster. As you can see, all of these

presumed "logical" acts are false and immoral. Their

logic does not include compassion. Thus, since they

were not even aware that using compassion on the road

was the best way to go, they had no reason to do so.

Yes, using YOUR head is considered logical when "using

compassion." But it is so for US, not THEM. If this

were not true, there would be significantly less

problems. Hmmmmmmmm, what can be done to correct this

faulty logic in the masses?

Message no. 654[Branch from no. 240]
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 10:18pm
Subject Re: What bugs you in driving?

okay...driving, as you can tell, is something i take

very seriously. i've seen some MASSIVELY deadly

accidents because people are IDIOTS and don't know how

to drive.

blinkers saying thank you using your mirrors STAY OFF

THE FREAKING PHONE (or use a headset at least) stop

putting on the make-up

all things that people should lose their liscense for if

they DONT do!!!

Message no. 655[Branch from no. 654]
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 11:50am
Subject Re: What bugs you in driving?

Supersaiyan_808,

When you attribute that:

"...People are IDIOTS and don't know how to drive..."

You are not dealing with a full deck. In other words

you shouldn't attribute accidents to other drivers being

idiots, it is too broad of a stereotype. As a matter of

fact this thinking is part of Dr. Leon James' level one,

Oppositional driving philosophy. More accurately, it is

part of the problem: a culture of disrespect.

"...blinkers saying thank you using your mirrors STAY

OFF THE FREAKING PHONE (or use a headset at least) stop

putting on the make-up..."

Again, when you say that:

"all things that people should lose their liscense for

if they DONT do!!!"

You show an oppositional attitude, intolerance of driver

diversity. You cannot CHANGE other people (especially

while you drive) by trash talking and labeling them as

idiots that shouldn't be allowed to drive.

You should have a supportive (level 3) attitude toward

driving instead. "Everyone makes mistakes sometimes,"

would be an example right out of Dr. Leon's book. Think

positive, be safe, have understanding, get deeper

insight, increase spirituality, then consider yourself

smart for having done as such.

--Peace out--

Message no. 707[Branch from no. 655]
Saturday, April 5, 2003 7:10pm
Subject Re: What bugs you in driving?

first of all, i'll let you in on a secret...when others

partake in the types of actions that i discribe as

idiotic, they are basically showing a lack of regard to

anyone else's lives or safety. these are all actions

which have proven to cause catastophical accidents that

take the lives of innocent people, who were more than

likely obeying safe driving rules. now, i understand

that you may find Dr James' writings and "levels" to be

valid and true. however, what he does not take into

account is what these people are actually doing...they

are putting the lives of others into jeopardy! i admit

that i have NOT read his writings, as i find that i

usually disagree with him on many levels in class

discussions. but, i am not saying that it is completely

false...just that it is not realistic. we DO need to

take into account that everyone has a bad day...but what

we ALSO need to do is take into account that their bad

day, may end OUR day...permanently. THAT is the facts.

secondly, yes, i generalize others who commit these

flagrant acts of unsafe driving to be idiots...the same

way you just generalized me to be "not dealing with a

full deck." we (as humans) automatically "generalize"

others into categories when they act in ways that are

not in sync with our own personal beliefs and

standards...

third...i would recommend that you NOT post direct

comments about those who use this discussion forum. we

are here to discuss the topics, NOT the people on the

forum. this may be an "impersonal" way to discuss our

opinions...but it becomes personal when people write

things about eachother...in other words...not

appreciated...buddy

Message no. 758[Branch from no. 707]
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 1:32pm
Subject Re: What bugs you in driving?

Them is fightn' words.

Getting touchy 'eh?

Hit a nerve did I?

Well have you considered the possibility that you are

the one in denial? You do though, admit to Dr James'

writings and "levels" to be valid and true. But why not

go the whole "ten" yards? Who are you to say that "what

he does not take into account is what these people are

actually doing?" Why don't you back up you're claims!

They are putting the lives of others into jeopardy, but

you're not helping "Buddy." I at least HAVE read his

writings.

You've been getting really cocky in class recently, but

hey I'll give you credit for sticking up for yourself.

It's one hell of a claim to say that Dr. James is not

being realistic. We ARE taking into account that

everyone has a bad day, and I'll tell you why... because

you internalize what happens to you on the road. The

whole idea is NOT TO DIRECTLY CHANGE OTHERS, IT IS TO

CHANGE YOU'RE THINKING SO AS TO PREVENT YOU FROM

CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM AND MAKE A WORLD OF A

DIFFERENCE IN YOU'RE LIFE. So in other words... You're

not helping!

However, you're actions, on some occasions, can

actually change those of others for the moment and for

the better. As you can recall that one's "bad day, MAY

end our day...permanently." Now THAT is the fact.

Yes, you generalize others who commit these

flagrant acts of unsafe driving to be idiots... But I'm

not just generalizing, I'm telling you in the nicest way

that I know how: "Please, you are not dealing with a

full deck." If we (as humans) automatically

"generalize" others into categories when they act in

ways that are not in sync with our own personal beliefs

and standards, what do you think we are doing now? Are

we being human?

Third...If you really want to help, don't continue to be

a part of the problem, so then I have no problem. I

would recommend that YOU not post direct comments, this

is just like one of those examples of how road rage can

escalate... Hey! How about that?! If anyone else is

reading this, hear me: We are here to discuss the

topics in the same way that people are on the road for

transportation, "Because they have to in order to get

somewhere." This is an "impersonal" way to discuss our

opinions... And it becomes personal when people

communicate their feelings toward each other. One

solution to this is to end conflicts before they

escalate to violent porportions! In other words...

"SSJ_808, I apologize if I offended you or made you feel

unappreciated. I do respect you're opinion and I do

thank you for helping me demonstrate "forum-rage." This

will be my final post on this thread. So for what it's

worth, thanks."

-Velocity

Message no. 962[Branch from no. 240]
Sunday, May 4, 2003 9:51pm
Subject Re: What bugs you in driving?

Reply to Love Chance message: What bugs you in driving?

I think those people who posted their ideas of "what

bugs them" while driving was me. I mean I feel the same

as them. I guess the little things really gets to me.

I know that I should be more patient while driving but

sometimes I can't stand how stupid some people drive.

Message no. 279
Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:45pm
Subject Kill Stories

There are many different reasons why people drive

aggressively on the road. Let me tell of one of the

reasons why they drive the way they do.

For those of you who do not know what a "Kill Story" is,

it is a story or tale based on a supposed event that had

occured in which an individual outperformed another with

his/her vehicle; usually, when someone won in an illegal

street race and bragged about it in some online forum.

There, other racers can listen and tell of kill stories

of their own. For an example just type in KILL STORIES

into your favorite search engine and look around in the

sites to get an idea of what i'm talking about. Or you

can click on the generic kill story link that I found.

http://www.supraforums.com/showthread.php?s=42a03943833f9cc0d632c125d9536ccf&threadid=94112

As you can see, it is the very nature of competitive

speed, power, and also aggressive driving that is looked

upon as a desirable thing in our society. It also does

NOT require driving with compassion (of course), perhaps

just "with a passion" instead.

Message no. 292
Friday, February 14, 2003 3:41pm
Subject Aggressive driving

For this assignment I decided to research rage on the

open road. I used google and quickly found many pages

that fit my topic. The search words I used were

"aggressive" and "driving". The first page I looked at

had plenty of information about aggressive driving and

road rage. It was a page created by AAA:

http://www.aaafoundation.org/resources/index.cfm?button=agdrtext

This page had three different articles or studies on

aggressive driving. The first article written by Louis

Mizell was very comprehensive. He defined aggressive

driving as any time "an angry or impatient motorist or

passenger intentionally injures or kills another

motorist, passenger, pedestrian, or attempts to injure

or kill" the aforementioned people due to a traffic

dispute. I learned that most of these occurrences

happen not due to a single incident, but rather the

buildup of stressful events culminating in the dispute

on the road. I also found it somewhat comedic the

responses that guilty people have as to why they

committed such violent acts. Some of these include: "I

never would have shot him if he hadn't rear ended me";

"the bitch hit my new Camaro"; and "the bastard kept

honking his horn". These responses were given by three

different people accused of murder or attempted murder.

There responses seem ridiculous, but I'm sure it made

perfect sense to them at the time. Therefore, I

feel that I learned more about road rage through this

assignment and will better handle my own aggressive

driving instincts when the time arises.

Message no. 386[Branch from no. 292]
Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:38am
Subject Re: Aggressive driving

Dear Sean,

You are right, if our Road Rage text was not enough to

prove it, your sources were. An important thing to also

remember is that all murders or attempted murders are

very rare in light of our population and statistical

analysis.

As for your thoughts, great. As the son of a driving

instructor I'm sure you would naturally think of

defensive driving as the best way to go. Keep

believing, but please keep your mind open to supportive

driving and Dr. Driving's ideals as well.

Aloha, Mark

Message no. 419[Branch from no. 292]
Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:11pm
Subject Re: Aggressive driving

Who can honestly say that they haven't wished bad

fortune upon those guys who follow the ambulances or

those speed junkies on crotch rockets that pass everyone

on the shoulder during bumper to bumper traffic? I know

I have. Who can honestly say that they haven't made

like a schizo and asked themselves "what the f-ck is

this guy doing?" when someone is about to reverse into

you in a parking lot. I definitely know I have. My

point is that we all get emotional on some level or

another when things go awry on the road. The difference

between criminals and the rest of us law abiding

citizens is the will and intent to refrain. And while I

may not condone criminal behavior on the road, I do

understand where it comes from.

Message no. 457[Branch from no. 419]
Saturday, March 1, 2003 11:06am
Subject Re: Aggressive driving

I can honestly say that I did not ever wish bad

fortune on those people. Once you crack up on a

motorcycle you're messed up royal, if it's an accident

with another car you're dead. I doesn't phase me to see

people following ambulances, personally it feels like

following death to me. Creepy feeling to follow a

vehicle that many have "passed away" in. Anyway, I

don't wish much either, and actually I have this thing

about using my wishes sparingly (I don't want to waste

them on insignificant people that I may never see

again). Emotions do play a large role however in

everyone's driving experience. I know that I fear the

day that guy reverses right into me. But I do

understand that some people have poor visability, and

others reverse to try to get you to see their intention

to back up. Not many people desire damaging their own

cars or enjoy increasing their car insurance fee.

Hmmmm, ok so if everyone else doesn't think like me,

does this mean that I'm unique, or that I'm weird?

Message no. 298
Friday, February 14, 2003 4:43pm
Subject Aggressive driving

I found quite a few sites on this topic, but the most

useful of the ones at which I looked was from the AAA

foundation for traffic safety.

http://www.aaafoundation.org/resources/index.cfm?button=agdrtext#aggressive%20driving

Has three studies. They are all interesting, but the

first is the one with which I spent the most time.

Eventually the article breaks down any number of sub

topics ranging from weapons of choice for drivers

resorting to violence, to how often vehicles like

bulldozers/tractors/tanks etc. are used in such

incidents, but the first portion is rather more

interesting. That is, it states that there is no one set

profile for an aggressive driver. The study found

men, women, young, old, with criminal pasts, without,

etc... were all in some proportion, though not an equal

one, the perpetrators of these violences.

Message no. 343
Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:07am
Subject "Road Rage" causes Road Rage

I wanted to stay away from mere statistics of road

rage. I wanted to find out, why road rage? I used the

term, "road rage" for my search and started off with the

definition at www.encarta.msn.com. Road rage is

feelings of anger experienced by people driving in

difficult conditions, often leading to violent behavior.

I started my search from Yahoo and hit on the AAA

Foundation of Traffic Safety's website, htt;:// www.

aafoundation.org/resources/index.cfm?button=agdrtext#Driver%20Aggression.

The article I read gave reasons for aggressive driving.

While driving a person has a very high interset in the

movement of others, this gets the person more

emotionally involved. Another reason is that a persons

car is often a statement of self and the main access to

freedom. When this is impaired, anger follows. Accident

history can also lead to road rage, as a lack of

accident involvement becomes an arbitrary indicator for

self-esteem behind the wheel and greater risk taking.

One thing the article says to remember is that if you

are walking along a congested street and trying to

increase your speed, then cursing and pushing your way

through won't get you there any faster.

Through Google, I found a independant journalism

website, www.theatlantic.com/issues/98aug/roadrage.htm.

This article blames the coinage of "road rage" as the

leading cause of incidents. The biggest study on road

rage was done by the American Automobile Association

Foundation for Traffic Safety. They reported that in a

five year span their were 218 aggressive driving

fatalities and 12,610 injuries related to aggressive

driving; unreported is that there were 290,000 car

accident related deaths and 23 million car accident

injuries for the same time period. The author of the

article researched the usage of the term road rage and

found that within a years span between 1994 and 1995,

the use of the word increased from 27 times to 500.

David Murray, the director of research at the

Statistical Assessment Service, in Washington, D.C. says

that when you give a term to something like this you

create an epidemic where we look for things to be

similar and create a pathology that creates this enigma

of road rage.

Message no. 369[Branch from no. 343]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 10:23pm
Subject Re: "Road Rage" causes Road Rage

The articles you searched seem to illustrate appropriate

reasons for agressive driving behavior. It makes me

reflect upon my own driving behavior. I am not a raged

driver, but I usually get very irritated if the car in

front of me moves slow or stop inappropriately. We

should remind ourseles that when driving a car, safty

should be the priority.

Message no. 387[Branch from no. 343]
Saturday, February 22, 2003 12:10pm
Subject Re: "Road Rage" causes Road Rage

Wow, this is so true: Accident history can also

lead to road rage, as a lack of accident involvement

becomes an arbitrary indicator for self-esteem behind

the wheel and greater risk taking.

You know, I have been in a pretty bad accident

myself. Ironically though, most of my "Bad Driving"

years was actually after the accident. I can't explain

it, or the most reckless burst of driving that I ever

experienced. It's after I got my sports car that I lost

my carelessness on the road. I now leave earlier,

cruise on the road, and enjoy the ride as much as I can.

I totally agree with the accident history thing

though. I don't take risks because they aren't worth

it. I believe it takes a long time to even consciously

kick the habit of driving the way we are. Good constant

reminders are hard to come by, no matter how severe they

may be. I mean not many can just change overnight.

Over time, if there is a will to better oneself, though,

I fully believe that one can accomplish this goal

regardless if he or she had an accident, known of one,

or never even known.

Message no. 414
Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:46pm
Subject madd compassion

Why is there so many uncompassionate drivers out

there? Because there are so many reasons why bad

driving occurs, and not just aggressive driving. Could

it be that someone DUI is driving without compassion?

Well being that the guy or girl is wasted and/or tipsy

and probably wouldn't care much anyway, my guess is that

it is sort of a physiological driving without

compassion. Many drinkers who can't handle get

aggressive, so I guess it helps the point. For a chart

from MADD about servings and BAC go here and click on:

"Number of Drinks and BAC in One Hour of Drinking." Or

whatever suits your fancy.

http://www.madd.org/stats/0,1056,1115,00.html

Judging by these stats one can get messed up pretty

fast, and by the two hour statistics is pretty

compelling too. Now I'm thinking that the act of

drinking and driving is in itself a lack of compassion

on the part of the person doing it and whoever is around

the person before and when he/she does it. But not

without protest from y'all. Holler if ya hear me.

For other interesting stats there is a nice page that

MADD has for the United States:

http://www.madd.org/stats/0,1056,1845,00.html

For general stats:

http://www.madd.org/stats/0,1056,1789,00.html

Message no. 417
Wednesday, February 26, 2003 6:23pm
Subject Research message: "Aggressive Driving: Where's the aloha?"

For this research topic I was concerned with finding

articles that gave reasons behind aggressive driving

behaviors. I used Google.com as my search engine and

went with "causes of road rage" as my search phrase.

Interestingly enough, the first article I read specified

that there is a difference between road rage and

aggressive driving. As I found out road rage has more

to do with criminal offenses and the latter has to do

more with minor traffic violations. Overall the search

went well. The two articles I used can be found at

www.geocities.com/road_rage_page/causes.html and

www.ncsl.org/programs/esnr/aggrdriv.htm

Message no. 426
Thursday, February 27, 2003 2:58pm
Subject more aggressive driving

I already posted on this topic, but I think it was a

good one, so here we are again.

I found transcripts of the Aggressive Driving Issues

Conference at http://www.aggressive.drivers.com and a

paper, therein, by Drs Leon James and Diane Nahl from

our very own UH. They start out with some historical

background. From there aggressive driving is examined

from a cultural standpoint. Thence, the article asserts,

comes aggressive driving. I didn't find specific

numbers, but I got the impression from a couple of the

articles that aggressive driving is a predominantly,

though not exclusively, western phenomenon. It was also

interesting that Dr. James' paper made reference to

chemically impaired driving, stress, distraction, and a

number of others as associated with aggressive driving.

Also there was a description of some aggressive driving

laws in several states. And the paper concludes with

treatment options for aggressive driving, though it

seems unlikely that the problem can be treated in a

vacuum, that is outside the context of habitual,

cultural anger.

Message no. 448
Friday, February 28, 2003 12:16pm
Subject causes of road rage

Using Yahoo once again, I did a search on "causes + road

+ rage." I came up with numerous sites, but I found

this one to have the most possible causes of road rage.

I had no problem with this particular search.

 

http://www.geocities.com/road_rage_page/causes.html

In this article, the author explains that there are

several factors that may be the cause of the increase of

aggressive driving. He did mention that one possible

cause is overcrowding. Also listed as one of the causes

of road rage is selfishness of the driver. He is

discourteous to other drivers and only cares about where

he is going and how he is going to get there. This

article lists other possible causes such as temperature,

the driver's ego, the driver's recklessness and

carelessness. This page encompasses a wide range of

causal factors of road rage, and suggests that if we are

made more aware of our own attitudes when getting behind

the wheel, there may be less accident cases caused by

aggressive drivers.

Message no. 603[Branch from no. 448]
Sunday, March 23, 2003 4:37pm
Subject Re: causes of road rage

I really agree with the author that road rage is caused

by selfishness, overcrowding, recklessness, etc. This

was a good article and it made me realize that as

drivers we do indeed turn into monsters on the road. I

used to be a selfish driver always in a hurry, but I

realize now that by doing so I can cause an accident and

hurt innocent people. I've tried to become patient and

to stop tailing people and I definitely feel better when

I get out of my car. I have learned to focus my

attention on others rather than myself.

Message no. 780[Branch from no. 448]
Thursday, April 10, 2003 11:44pm
Subject Re: causes of road rage

I agree with the author that overcrowded streets is one

possible cause for the increase in aggressive drivers.

That fact is obvious everyday. I live in Pearl City and

drive home around 1:00 pm, before all the traffic starts

building up. Many of the people on the road at that

time are quite courtious, they signal, don't weave in

and out of traffic, and even give an occasional wave.

But sometimes when I drive home during rush hour around

5:00pm, there is a night and day difference. The

traffic is stop and go, many people are weaving in and

out of traffic, people honk their horns at you if you

don't signal or you drive too slow, etc. At that time

of the day some of the the nicest people just turn into

the most unpolite person when getting behind the wheel.

That's so terrible that something so simple as driving

would bring out the worst in a person.

Message no. 472
Monday, March 3, 2003 3:30pm
Subject Web conference

I've done with my bibliography report, which made me

faint many times. While I was searching articles, I

encountered Dr. James' papers on the web conference. The

conference was finished, but there are 7 papers

available at

:http//www.aggressive.driver.com/papers/james-nahl/james-nahl-paper.html

I used the phrase: psychological analysis of aggressive

driving with Google, as usual. I had no difficulty to

find sources, but i was troubled to pick some of them

due to too much information.

I wonder if aggresive behavior on the road has something

to do with some sort of psychological impact of a locked

room environments...

Message no. 533
Thursday, March 13, 2003 9:22pm
Subject No compassion or traffic congestion?

There's a question that comes up when it comes to

aggressive driving, is it due to the traffic congestion

or lack of drivers having compassion? Well, I know

first hand that(to me) my aggressiveness is due to

traffic. So, I wanted to find evidence that agrees with

me. I first searched using Hotbot, but wasent to happy

with the outcomes, so I ended up using Yahoo. I used

the phrase "lack of compassion while driving" and

"aggressive driving and traffic congestion".

I found a good site that fully supported me at

www.tripnet.org/national/nnr030899.htm. It talks about

how traffic congestion does lead to aggressive driving.

A recent poll that was taken by motorists, conducted by

AAA, shows that motorist frustration with slow-moving

traffic and traffic congestion is one of the underlying

causes of aggressive driving.

I truly agree with this article. However, in Dr. James

book, it mentions that driving stress comes from inner

reactions to external events, not from congestion (or

the actions of others). And this is also true, some of

us just can't handle the stress and our emotions take

over.

Message no. 537
Friday, March 14, 2003 12:14am
Subject Driving Attitude

I used Google with the searching terms, "driving

attitude." I had no problem finding this interesting

site.

http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Driving/DefensiveDriving/Attitude/Index.htm

This site illustrates the topics such as road rage and

drink driving, as well as a section with advice for

those who have felt uncertain about driving alone.

The topics include; Drinking and driving; Road rage;

Driving alone; Driving phobia.

Driving with an appropriate attitude is probably much

more important than the skill to operate your vehicle.

Your attitude can determine the value of your driving

experience. If you think you are a crazy driver, this

site can help you learn to enjoy driving and achieve a

change of behaviour through a change of attitude.

Message no. 538[Branch from no. 537]
Friday, March 14, 2003 2:38am
Subject Re: Driving Attitude

Hi Emiko,

I visited the site you suggested and it was very

"readable." It wasn't too scientific; it was concise and

organized in presenting its topics. It was a good site.

I read more about road rage and what I could do if I do

get mad.

The list was okay. I especially agreed with the part of

people waving their hand to acknowledge making a

mistake. It's true - when people cut in front of me or

change into my lane as if I'm not there, I feel less

tension when I see them wave their hand, as in

apologizing. I just think to myself, "Okay, they know

they made a mistake. Just forget about it. Nothing bad

happened." Anyhow, even if they drive recklessly and

don't acknowledge their dangerous actions, I try to

dismiss the whole situation. I mean, why stress over it?

I'm sure it happens to everyone driving on the road.

And I admit, I have made a few mistakes before and feel

the need to wave my hand in the rear view mirror to

admit my fault and perhaps hope to alleviate the other

driver's tension/anger.

Message no. 543[Branch from no. 537]
Friday, March 14, 2003 11:29am
Subject Re: Driving Attitude

I agree that driving with an appropriate attitude is

probably much more important than the skill to operate

your vehicle. But to a certain point. Some people who

have good intentions on the road but just make the wrong

decisions somehow provoke those that do have a bad

attitude. And it doesn't matter whether it be

intentional or not, it will still be perceived

(misperceived) as such.

I once saw a scared old lady stop in the middle of the

big intersection by Market City shopping center. The

guy in front of me honked at her and yelled something

like "Hey! you know how to drive!" I felt sorry for the

old woman, she had the biggest frown on her face and

looked like she was in a sure state of panic. I just

simply drove around her because it really was no big

deal. But the guy behind me honked at her too. I just

hoped the old woman didn't die of a heart attack from

all the aggression. Your attitude CAN determine the

value of your driving experience as well as other's

driving experiences. If you think you are to change the

driver, you must change the attitude first. This may

change the behavior. I believe that compassion is

possible, I am a living proof to that fact. I admit

that I am not perfect and that I still have competition

urges every now and then, but I am well aware of what's

right and wrong. The old lady did not stop in the

middle of that intersection on purpose because she

wanted to. It was a clear mistake. Honest mistakes DO

happen. So why does everyone jump on the idea of

calling each other "idiots?" Enjoy driving people, it's

really not that bad, really.

Message no. 542
Friday, March 14, 2003 9:50am
Subject Those Who Drive Aggressively

I went through msn.com and typed in the phrase

"Aggressive Driving". I had no trouble with this search

because there were a lot of links and sites that talked

about aggressive driving and road rage. The site I went

to was http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/aggr-ndx.htm.

This site talked about the research that was done to

investigate what kind of people have road rage and why

do they have road rage. What I found interesting was

what causes people to have road rage. Some examples

were noise, temperature, overcrowding, territoriality.

It continuted to say that "individuals often view their

vehicles as an extension of their home. At home, one

sets standards for oneself that may be fine in the

privacy of one's home but would not be acceptable in

public. The car seems to straddle the boundary between

private space and public domain".

Message no. 578[Branch from no. 542]
Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:21am
Subject Re: Those Who Drive Aggressively

In response to Ly.............

It's true that one factor which contributes to road rage

is the attitude that because you're in your car, your in

your personal space (an extension of your home)...you

don't have to take responsibilty for your actions on the

road. When we are in our cars, we don't have face to

face contact with others on the road, this gives us the

feeling that I can cut you off, or what not because you

don't know me, I don't know you so who cares. We have to

realize that we share the highway and we need to show

empathy for those around us.

Message no. 545
Friday, March 14, 2003 11:50am
Subject Solution: Kick 'em Out?

I found an extremist (or fanatic) site that claims to

have the solution to all problems caused by cars. I

used it as a link from my bibliography report, but:

http://www.speakeasy.org/wfp/34/Thoughts.html

It is like an opinion site, but it has some interesting

ideas in discouraging the use of cars (decreasing the

consumption of fuel, etc).

Lightening the pressure of dependence on autos is a good

idea, but I cannot agree on these extreme measures, or

there effectiveness in the right places. Nor do I think

that it would fly with anyone else. It's just not

practical, and an overnight change is near impossible

unless we run out of fuel completely. Knock on wood.

Message no. 781[Branch from no. 545]
Thursday, April 10, 2003 11:56pm
Subject Re: Solution: Kick 'em Out?

I like the idea of getting car's off the streets. But I

do have to disagree with some of the ideas. I do not

think that increasing the tax on gas will dramatically

affect how much a person has to drive because I drive

from Pearl City to town every day, and increasing the

tax on gas will not affect my driving habit at all. I

think instead of making more roads to accomodate for

more cars, we should make more bike lanes or lanes on

the freeway just for motorcycle and mopeds. These do

not take up much room for parking, take up less space on

the road and they get more miles per gallon than cars.

That's just my opinion.

Message no. 849[Branch from no. 781]
Friday, April 18, 2003 11:16am
Subject Re: Solution: Kick 'em Out?

Using bike, moped, and motorcycle lanes aren't so

bad an idea. Getting people to use it is a different

matter though. I doubt the state would create more bike

lanes if no one used them once they funded the project.

Noooooooooo another excellent idea that would have

worked dumped by the almighty dollar.

On second thought, I would be rather upset if I was

riding a moped and a bike was in front of me, or if

someone on a motorcycle was yelling at me to hurry up.

LOL.

Anyway, I'd imagine that it WILL come to this one

day, and it is best to be prepared for anything. Boy,

what a weird site I found.

Message no. 551
Friday, March 14, 2003 8:45pm
Subject Road Rage

I looked up road rage on www.yahoo.com. I did not have

any trouble finding many articles on the subject. One

of the best websites I found is at

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/98aug/roadrage.htm.

This article explains the phenomenon and then gives

links to research that has been done on the subject. It

is also a good article because it talks about how road

rage may not be occurring more, but we have a name for

it now, so by being able to talk about it more, we think

it is happening more. It gives good points for and

against the thought that there is an increase in driving

without compassion.

Message no. 562
Tuesday, March 18, 2003 12:32pm
Subject Causes and prevention of aggressive driving

I used http://Vivisimo.com to search for articles

relating to the causes of road rage. My first (and only)

search phrase "reasons for road rage" turned up a little

over 100 results which were conveniently listed in

categories. Under the category "Aggressive Driving," I

pulled out two articles, but I'm sure that many more of

the results are very relevant to this research topic and

I didn't bother checking the other categories because I

figured I had enough information for my post. Hence, in

about fifteen minutes, I finished my research; I didn't

have any problems at all.

1) http://www.dol.wa.gov/ds/roadrage.htm This article by

the Department of Licensing at Washington differentiates

between Aggressive Driving and Road Rage. It also states

that the most aggressive drivers are men between the

ages of 18 and 28. A common reason to drive so without a

lack of compassion is stress; some excuses include being

late to work or appointments and getting frustrated with

slow traffic or traffic congestion. To protect yourself

and avoid incidents of aggressive driving/road rage,

some things you can do are give drivers the space they

need, avoid tailgating, and avoid the use of "gestures."

2)http://www.thinkingdriver.com/psychology.shtml This

website is dedicated to the "Thinking Driving Course,"

which is a course that tries to change the way people

think in order to prevent acts of aggressive

driving/road rage. Keep in mind that there are two

categories of aggressive driving: chronic and

situational. There are also two types of anger involved:

attributed anger and instrumental anger. Attributed

anger results from hostile interpretations of ambiguous

events (interpreting someone cutting you off as a

personal attack) and instrumental anger results from

being frustrated in reaching a goal (being late for an

appointment).

Message no. 633
Saturday, March 29, 2003 7:49pm
Subject Driving with aggression

For this topic, I was searching for anything to do with

driving and aggression. The search terms I used was

"Driving with Aggression." I did not have problems with

this search, but I did find that the articles that I

needed were limited. The search engine that I used was

Yahoo. The web address is:

http://www.drivers.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?type=ART&id=000000462&static=1

This article talked about how aggressive divers are high

risk drivers that climb into the anonymity of an

autombile and take out their frustrations on anybody at

anytime. It is believed that the aggressibve driving is

a lack of compassion because their frustration levels

are high, and level of concern for fellow motorists are

low.

Message no. 684
Friday, April 4, 2003 12:09am
Subject driving with compassion?

i found this site using google and searching for

compassionate drivers. I found the article at the top

of the page. http://www.lifetool.com/tips.htm

This article is a course that is taught to be a more

compassionate driver. Its main purpose is to diffuse

any anger that people create while driving. It says the

best thing to do is breathe. We all know that breathing

always helps to calm a situation down but how many of us

do it? things escalate when people do not take the time

to know what they are fighting or getting upset about.

Message no. 718
Sunday, April 6, 2003 12:01am
Subject psychology of aggressive driving

The site:

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/esnr/transer7.htm#psychology discusses

a little about what a psychologist calls the "road rage

disorder."

it is funny to me that some people take things so far.

i've admitted in earlier posts that i am not unfamiliar

with the sticking your head out of a window and letting

the verbal assault fly...but i would never think of

pulling out a gun and shooting anyone just because they

decided to cut in front of me. granted, i think that

the way some people drive, they might as well just shoot

themselves...afterall...driving unsafely is just as good

as that...but...i don't think that we should be

reverting to this kind of violence over something so

stupid and little.

yes, those who are stupid, and reckless enough to

endanger others by driving like morons, are a source of

anger for so many of us who take driving

seriously...dont do anything that will end your own

life...like taking the life of others. you become just

as bad as the person who is racing between cars and

swerving in and out of lanes. the only difference

is...you killed someone the easy way...

its not worth losing everything you own, and have ever

wanted to own...just because some jackass doesn't know

how to drive. relax, cool down...honk the horn if you

have to...but violence isnt' the answer for everything!

Message no. 720
Sunday, April 6, 2003 1:35am
Subject driving with aggression

I used google for this search and typed in the words

"aggressive driving". Most of the results yielded are

relevant to the topic.

One of the articles was retrieved from the NYS

Department of Motor Vehicles,

http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/aggr-ndx.htm . The NYS

Police define an aggressive driver as one who "operates

a motor vehicle in a selfish, bold or pushy manner,

without regard for the rights or safety of the other

users of the streets and highways". In other words,

aggressive driving is the result of lack of compassion

and caring for one another on the road.

The article also cites a study which shows that

aggressive driving may be the result of "a series of

stressful events in an individual's life which

culminates in extreme violence". To me, "stressful

events" include traffic congestion and time pressure,

and they can easily trigger a person to vent his or her

frustration on others on the road.

I don't drive so I've never gone into aggressive

driving. However, I know quite a number of people who

transform the "aggression" into swear words. I think

swearing, provided that others don't hear you, helps

cool off a bit.

Message no. 725
Sunday, April 6, 2003 2:06pm
Subject are you at risk of a traffic death?

in thinking more about our driving as a whole, primarily

of those i interact with the most...people in hawaii, i

wondered "how much risk do i have of dying on the road."

i found a site:

http://www.disastercenter.com/traffic/tpe.htm which

details how much risk of fatality someone has in being a

trafic/driving fatality, relative to population. i was

pleased to find, what it LOOKS like states, that hawaii

is very low on risk of fatality. perhaps someone can

look at the graph and see if i'm reading it right.

this at least tells me that no matter how much i may

think that some people may not know how to drive...i am

fairly safe on Hawaii's roads, in comparison to other

places in the mainland. whethere this is because less

people drive here, there are shorter distances to

drive...who knows...but its nice to know

Message no. 737
Monday, April 7, 2003 11:30am
Subject Woman Drivers=Serious Health Risk for Men

I wanted to research the difference between men and

woman drivers. I used Yahoo as my search engine and

found a quite interesting website. To find this website

I punched in the search terms woman vs. men driving.

Check out this website:

http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/health-info/stress/vul-

stre.html

This sexist, yet interesting website suggest that woman

drivers are a serious help risk for men. The funny thing

is... There is acutal data to back up this outragious

claim!Out of the 41,967 traffic fatalities of Americans

in 1997, 28,538 of the deaths were men. Therefore more

men seem to die in the accidents than woman. Another

fact says that being a woman driver increases the

probalbility of an injury or fatal accident by as much

as 56%. They say that if only men drove traffic

accidents would decrease 15% to 22%, saving up to 9,159

lives per year and up to 330,000 lives over the next

thiry years. Although these claims seem unfair and

untrue, this website sites all of their information to

back up their claims. Sad but true, woman on the streets

put more men than woman at risk for a deadly traffic

accident.Hmmmmm...could this be popualtion control?

Message no. 744
Monday, April 7, 2003 4:27pm
Subject Opps!!!

Sorry I put the wrong web address on my original

posting. Here is the correct address pertaining to Woman

drivers are a serious health risk to

men:http://christianparty.net/womendrivers.htm

Message no. 760
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 1:58pm
Subject Cell phones and driving

I was looking for material for my presentation when I

found lots of sites that talk about multitasking

especially the problem of cellular phone use while

driving:

http://edmunds.nytimes.com/ownership/driving/articles/43812/article.html?tid=nytimes.n.mainindex.advice.safety.4.*

Here is a place where someone did a study on cell phones

and driving:

http://www.njsafety.org/html/cellreport.pdf

Also worth noting is a site where it shows which states

have laws that ban cell phone use while driving and

other info:

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/esnr/celphone.htm

Indeed, this is a problem. Could proper training

actually help people? It is not likely that it will

help everyone. But I'm sure that it will make a

difference in someone's life, maybe yours, who knows.

Message no. 788[Branch from no. 760]
Friday, April 11, 2003 3:22pm
Subject Re: Cell phones and driving

Hello. This message deals with the first article,

http://edmunds.nytimes.com/ownership/driving/articles/43812/article.html?

I found it very funny that one of the benefits of using

a cell phone while driving, according to them was:

"Economic: They allow us to conduct business while

stuck in traffic."

I don't know about anyone else but I don't think

conducting business on a cell phone while driving in

traffic is a BENEFIT!! Rather it would/may impair the

driver's ability to concentrate and pay attention to the

road.

Message no. 803[Branch from no. 760]
Saturday, April 12, 2003 1:24pm
Subject Re: Cell phones and driving

What I found interesting at these sites is that cell

phones make driving more dangerous. It states that no

matter if it is a hands free cell phone it still makes

someone a more dangerous driver. It is interesting that

just the act of talking to someone that is not in your

car could make you 4X more likely to have a collision.

So it is not the problem of not having both hands on the

wheel at the same time. It is the problem of

distraction while driving. While talking to someone on

the phone creates a lack of attention while driving.

Driving becomes 2nd to talking on the phone. The

article says that is it just like being intoxicated.

Message no. 905[Branch from no. 760]
Saturday, April 26, 2003 3:17pm
Subject Re: Cell phones and driving

until a few months ago, i did not know that there were

laws in certain states that banned the use of cell

phones while operating a vehicle...i first found out

when i was talking to my friend who lives in

alabama...she was all like, "damn hold on, there's a

cop!"...i think that making it illegal is a good idea

because there are lots of incompetent drivers who talk

on phones and cause unnecessary accidents...i use my

cell sometimes when i drive, but i have to admit that it

does interfere with my driving as my attention is not

fully focused on the road.

Message no. 914[Branch from no. 905]
Monday, April 28, 2003 11:05am
Subject Re: Cell phones and driving

Definitely Deni,you are right. I think that there

are many people out there who are slower to learn, or

perhaps just don't learn at all! I was actually in a

car of a friend of mine's when she received a call, went

to see who it was, and slammed into the back of a

Caravan. I'm sure no one wants this to happen to them.

Especially on the receiving end. There is no doubt that

training my friend would help her avoid future

accidents, but getting her to realize this and actually

practice is another problem altogether.

Laters, --Mark

Message no. 984[Branch from no. 914]
Monday, May 5, 2003 6:20pm
Subject Re: Cell phones and driving

I definitely agree that it is harder to concentrate when

you are talking on the phone while driving at the same

time. I find myself neglecting one or the other. One

time I was talking to my friend on the phone and instead

of paying attention to what she was saying, I was

looking for the traffic lights to see whether I needed

to stop and when I did that's when I would talk, but it

is really a hassle so I try not to do it as often. When

people call I usually answer when my car is at a light

or not answer at all and give them a call later.

Message no. 782
Friday, April 11, 2003 12:33am
Subject Road rage

I found this site using google.com.

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/voices/980601/8.html

The author of this article tells of his experience with

an aggressive driver. Unlike most people this person

had a gun pulled on him from the angry driver. He was

terrified and didn't know what was going to happen to

him, so he just raced off and eventually lost the angry

driver.

I'm sure many of us have had a similar experience with

an aggressive driver. Unfortunately a friend of mine

has had too many experiences with aggressive drivers.

One night I was riding with him and a guy in a Durango

was tailing us and flashing his lights. We moved to the

side to let the guy pass on the right of us. So the

driver pulls up, rolls down his window, and begins

swearing and yelling at us. It was this big Hawaiian

guy so right away I'm pretty scared. I roll up the

window and turn to my friend who is reaching for

something under his seat. A couple seconds later he

pulls out a gun, rolls down the window and points it at

the Hawaiian guy. Immediately that guy speeds off and

we never seen after. That was a very scary experience

because when he pointed the gun at the other driver, I

was sitting straight up and that thing was right in

front of my face. I've seen guns before, but I was

never in that type of situation where a gun was being

pulled on someone in front of me. I'm glad that he

didn't get to the point where he would pull the trigger.

But I knew this guy for a long time and it surprised me

that he would actually pull a gun on someone who

threatened him on the road because he is normally a

really mellow guy.

My friend is just a small lanky Korean kid. But he said

that for some reason he encounters that type of

situation so often that he just got fed up and bought a

gun. What is this place coming to when people are

beginning to arm themselves just to go for a drive? I

always thought that Hawaii was a nice place to live and

that no one would ever have to arm themselves when they

drive. I guess people are just not as forgiving as

before.

Message no. 847[Branch from no. 782]
Thursday, April 17, 2003 6:21pm
Subject Re: Road rage

Oh my goodness...your friend pulled out a gun?! Well I

do believe there are other ways of dealing with road

rage...but sometimes like what you said, people get fed

up and they may think of other ways to deal with their

road rage. Personally I would just let the guy pass me

on the road, and forget about it because there are

always going to be aggressive drivers on the road.

I think that drivers are getting aggressive because they

may be stressed out at home or at work and they are

taking it out on the road...or they just may be angry at

the world and they find an outlet by driving

aggressively. As a driver, you have to learn to have

compassion for others on the road and it's all about

"give and take"...but I guess these days even people in

Hawaii are becoming like the crazy drivers in the

mainland.

Message no. 848
Thursday, April 17, 2003 6:28pm
Subject preventing road rage

I searched for topics regarding road rage in general. I

used www.google.com for my search engine. I typed in

"road rage" as my search words. I came across a pretty

good site about "how to prevent road rage?"

The website is:

http://www.awesomelibrary.org/road-rage.html

It goes over some key ways to protect yourself from road

rage:

1. Staying in the car

2. Do not respond with an angry gesture or action

3. Keep a "SORRY" sign in your car and use it when

necessary

It states that a key factor in reversing the process is

an apology. The article states that over 85% of the

aggressive drivers would drop the matter if the other

careless driver apologized. Road ragers feel that they

need to teach the careless drivers a lesson, but

sometimes the careless drivers are unintentionally

careless.

Aggressive driving including road rage is not worth it

because it is linked with injuries and even death. It

is also becoming one of the leading causes of death

among young children.

Drive safely! Be considerate!

Message no. 850
Friday, April 18, 2003 12:09pm
Subject Compassion without Driving

Driving with compassion is ok. But why do we have

to show compassion only while driving? Would it not be

better if the person showed compassion regardless if he

were operating a massive machine?

Compassion without driving. This is a tough issue.

You cannot force anyone to act a certain way, no one

with a free will that is. If the person "acts" like

he/she is compassionate, it does not obligate the person

to that act. If the person had a bad day, for example,

acting may not be on the persons "to-do list." Whether

this would be "better" is the real question. Driving

without compassion is specifically geared to just

driving, and is rather focused. The more broadened

approach would be an understanding of right and wrong

(like in my post from the *ethics section, or the

section on *sexist jokes and men), and the conscience

that kept the majority of us "survivors" in the land of

the living to this day.

**No, really, someone read my posts in those sections, I

have a good site in the helping yourself by helping

others section, and a nice little post on morals in the

sexist joke section). -peace, MARK (Velocity)

Message no. 893

Friday, April 25, 2003 12:20pm
Subject Aggressive Driving

For this search I wanted to find anything related to

aggressive driving. I used the search terms aggressive

driving on Vivisimo and found this excellent site.

http://www.nccrimecontrol.org/newsrels/shp/fair_display.htmlI

had no problems finding this article.

The article is about a North Carolina State highway

patrol fair where they are displaying vehicles they will

use in its new anti-aggressive driving campaign. The

enforcement program will use a variety of

"unconventional" cars not normally associated with law

enforcement, such as unmarked patrol cars modified with

cloth tops, sport utility vehicles, and seized passenger

autos.

Equipped with video cameras and VASCAR speed-measuring

devices, these special units will work in teams to spot

and apprehend aggressive drivers. The program will

identify areas with aggressive driving problems by

reviewing collision data, motorist complaints, and

observing traffic on highways and major commuter routes

using patrol cars and, on occasion, helicopters.

Aggressive driving includes speeding, tailgating,

cutting drivers off, improper lane use, running stop

signs and red lights, and having a general disregard for

the rules of the road. On rare occasions, aggressive

drivers turn violent, hence the term "road rage."

Aggression can surface over trivial things like another

driver failing to signal, blowing his horn or driving

slowly. But the causes of aggression are often rooted in

a sense of frustration, anger or stress brought on by

demands at home or the office, not planning enough time

to get where you're going, anger at another person, or

irritation over traffic congestion.

Message no. 950
Friday, May 2, 2003 4:06pm
Subject Helping others crossover

This site is about an organization that is full-on

against cell phone use, and it has pictures of cute baby

Morgan lee.

http://www.morganlee.org

I was going to post this only in the "Helping

Yourself by Helping Others" section, but decided to also

post it here because of the general topic that this site

has.

Dispite having cute pictures, it's kinda creepy,

disturbing, and sad. Morgan Lee died in an accident due

to cell phone use, hence the name of the site. They

have the chilling details about the death of Morgan Lee

in their link (for those in my class who seen my

presentation, this is the letter I handed out).

http://cartalk.cars.com/About/Morgan-Pena/letter.html

I think it's supposed to be a fear appeal, but this

letter is an example of how the legal system has a lot

of grey areas still (and someone can still legally kill

you, as long as they do it smart).

A vehicle can be a deadly weapon, and it should

also be treated as much (handled responsibly and

carefully). They kill more people than guns do (since

we are exposed to it more routinely than guns; sort of

like the higher rate of death from bees than sharks).

Although most of these cell-phone-related fatalities are

unintentional, neglect is still a crime that demands one

to operate their vehicle safely, that is, without near

misses or crashes, and without killing anyone.

If YOU "accidentally" killed someone's baby (and

probably the parents' whole life as well), how would you

atone for it? On the flip side, if someone killed your

baby (and of course dramatically changing your families'

life permanently), how would you want this "idiot"

punished? You probably wouldn't kill him (although

rather tempting), perhaps you would prefer jailtime and

a big sue-job for "compensation," despite the fact that

anything that you can possibly get will NEVER be enough.

How will you find peace? How will "the idiot?"

Now, the parents of Morgan Lee constructed this

site to help others. They have dedicated their efforts

to helping others since their loss cannot be

retrievable. But through helping others I feel they can

find their own peace. These things do happen. There

are those that will make mistakes that may change your

life. Be wary, but also be safe as well, no matter what

the circumstances. These issues are very important, and

we will have to live with whatever the justice system

decides will be law. But for now I think we all should

celebrate what we still have, rather than what we won't

have in the future.

Message no. 951[Branch from no. 950]
Friday, May 2, 2003 4:11pm
Subject Re: Helping others crossover

Yeech, "helping others crossover?" sounds kinda creepy,

maybe I should have named it "Helping yourself by

helping others, the crossover post"

anyway, peace out.

--Mark

Message no. 987
Monday, May 5, 2003 6:58pm
Subject suicide

http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2002/042002/04272002/389998

"Woman leaps to death"

This article is about a woman who was egged on by

drivers to kill herself because she was causing traffic.

I don't understand why saving a life is less important

than getting through traffic. It's depressing.

 

14. OPTIMISM AND SELF-EFFICACY

Message no. 160
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 6:07pm
Subject posting on self-efficacy/optimism

One of the research topics is the effects of

self-efficacy and optimism on people and the different

views that people have on the subject (whether one can

have to much). I'm pretty sure that there are people

out there that believe one person can have too much of

it but, I thought I'd start out for my first posting

with a study done. The website

is:http://psychology.muc.edu/oupc/program6.asp. On this

site they say that there is a relationship between

self-efficacy and optimism and that it does have a good

impact on lifestyle and health. Although the people

that had high self-efficacy and optimism still got sick,

the duration of their sickness was shorter than people

who had lower self-efficacy/optimism.

Message no. 190[Branch from no. 160]
Thursday, February 6, 2003 4:40pm
Subject Re: posting on self-efficacy/optimism

I found your posting interesting! So,being both

optimistic and having high self-efficacy can shorten the

duration of your illness/sickness? If this is true,we

may be able to conclude that a portion of one's

sickness/illness may be phychological, right? Maybe

people on the other side of the spectrum feel sorry for

them selves and there for suffer longer. Hmmmmm.

Interesting!

Message no. 353[Branch from no. 160]
Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:51am
Subject Re: posting on self-efficacy/optimism

That's interesting that optimism affects health, but I

guess that makes sense. If someone is always down in

the dumps and feeling sorry for themself all the time,

they can make themself sick! I notice that when I am

sick, I need to get up and tell myself, "I'm not sick".

Within a day or two, I get better. But even when I'm

not sick and I tell myself that I am sick, in no time at

all, I catch a cold. It's so interesting how mind works

over body.

Message no. 261
Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:56am
Subject "Peak Performance, Self- Esteem, and Self Efficacy"

I wanted to find a website that correrlated

self-efficacy and optimism. I used the search engine

Vivisimo and used these two terms as search terms. I

had no problems finding this site.

The url is www.imt.net/~randolfi/esteem.html

The article says that self-efficacy is needed to be

successful. "They work against stress, depressions,

helplessness, dependency, and irrational cognition.

They are key to optimism, positive behavior, change and

the achievement of goals."

One must believe in themselves in order to get goals

done. In order to do this, the article list a number

of suggestions in order to achieve self-efficacy and

optimism in your life. Some include: Change your self

talk, model the person you want to be, don't articulate

pessimism or hand around negativistic, sarcastic

people,don't accept putdowns from other people. When

someone compliments you, say thank you set, achieve

realistic goals.

I found that researching for this topic was very much

related to the sixth research topic of "Talents of

successful people." I'm looking forward to relating

these two topics for the bibilography.

Message no. 266[Branch from no. 261]
Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:54pm
Subject Re: "Peak Performance, Self- Esteem, and Self Efficacy"

The article you found includes very interesting and

concrete stragidies to achieve self-efficacy and

optimism in your life. I feel, though, as a human

being, it is sometimes challenging to apply the

strategies into action. (For me, anyway...) How can we

become mortivated to put that into action all the time?

Message no. 428[Branch from no. 261]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 3:21pm
Subject Re: "Peak Performance, Self- Esteem, and Self Efficacy"

I agree with Starrrfish on this one...

To believe in oneself sometimes can make all the

difference in the world. Successful people usually has

this type of mind set. If you don't believe in

yourself, then who would? Successful people don't take

failures personally, they learn from their mistakes, fix

it, and move on. I want to learn to be more this way.

Being an optimist makes one more efficient in life and

in the workplace. There should be no room for

negativity because that's what causes stress and an

irrational cognition. It is hard to achieve your goals

when you are thinking irrationally or thinking in a

negative way.

How you think about yourself, your self-image in other

words can be portrayed to others. If you believe that

you can do anything or get a specific task done and show

other people your self-confidence, then others will not

doubt you. Have faith in yourself, model yourself after

your role models and discover what is unique about

yourself that can work for you and be of advantage for

you.

Message no. 273
Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:56pm
Subject Optimism vs. Pessimism

My objection in this search was to find an article about

optimism and pessimism in relation to self-efficacy. I

searched with Google and Yahoo, I used the term,

„Optimism-pessimism.š Though there were many articles

about „optimism vs. pessimism,š it took me some time to

find useful ones.

http://www.kaaj.com/psych/scales/esteem.html

The first article I found simply defines the terms,

„Optimism and pessimism.š Optimists are generally

inclined to believe that good, rather than bad,

pessimists generally tend to regard and experience

present and future events in a negative light; that is,

to feel and think that bad elements rather than the

good, so that they assume future outcomes are likely to

be negative and bad.

According to the definition stated in this site, it is

obvious that it is much more beneficial to be optimistic

than be pessimistic to attain the productive life.

Message no. 423[Branch from no. 273]
Thursday, February 27, 2003 1:53pm
Subject Re: Optimism vs. Pessimism

I agree with Emiko and her findings that optimism leads

to success. I researched this same topic and was

wondering what others found. The general idea seems to

be that optimism leads to success. But, I wonder what

really causes optimistic thinking. I wonder if it has

to do with an internal locus of control; in that to have

a i.l.o.c you kind of have to believe in yourself and it

helps to think that you can do it when you're trying to

be optimistic

Message no. 488[Branch from no. 273]
Thursday, March 6, 2003 8:09pm
Subject Re: Optimism vs. Pessimism

Emiko-san:

I agree. To be frankly, being optimistic makes our

lives easier and healther. My mother used to tell me

when I forget about optimistic side of me that what a

luxry life I have. She says, she cannot afford to have

pessimistic thoughts because she is too busy. Then she

goes, "what a wonderful life, you have extra room for

such a thought!", and laugh at me. It's nice to know

that her genes were past on me.

Message no. 277
Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:30pm
Subject Two views: self-efficacy and cynicism

In my search for finding two opposing views,

optimism/self-efficacy vs. cynicism/pessimism, I used

the following search phrases in Google.com: "optimism,

self-efficacy, pessimism" and "cynicism is good." The

search task did not seem troublesome; I found a number

of useful articles.

These two sites put self-efficacy in a good light:

www.alsuccess.com/articles/081feat3.html

www.fu-berlin.de/gesund/publicat/conner9.htm

The first article titled "A Wellness Perspective for

Successful Aging" attributed self-efficacy as one of the

factors that contributed to elderly's maintenance of a

high level of mental function. Other factors included a

strong social support system, reduced feelings of

isolation, and regular physical activity. (This was one

of the findings of the MacArthur Foundation's Study of

Aging in America.)

The latter site brings you to a scientific study on

self-efficacy and health behaviors. This study is very

informative. It states that "individuals with high

self-efficacy choose to perform more challenging

tasks...set themselves higher goals and stick to them."

It goes on to explain several heatlh behaviors in which

self-efficacy plays a part, such as nutrition and weight

control, physical exercise, and smoking. You can also

read in depth about the 5 kinds of self-efficacy

pertaining to addictive behaviors: resistance,

harm-reduction, action, coping, and recovery

self-efficacy.

There are people who think that cynicism is good. In

"The Virtue of Engineering Cynicism," located at

www.darwinmag.com/read/swiftkick/column.html?Articl

eID=531

David Weinberger describes how engineers need cynicism

in order to function in their line of work.

In another article, "In Praise of Cynicism," that can be

found at

www.freeinquirynetwork.com/Cynicism.html

Madigan explains how modern society should familiarize

itself with the Cynics. Afterall, she says that the

Cynics' basic message was that people should live

according to nature.

This third article "The Pitfalls of Positive Thinking -

Affirmations Versus Optimism" at

www.uncommon-knowledge.co.uk/positive_thinking.ht m

explains how positive thinking affirmations can be bad

for one's mental health. Elliott points out that some

affirmations are too idealistic.

This research topic definitely has two sides and all

people seem to be living with some amount of both

optimism and cynicism. I think it is healthy for

individuals too be more optimistic than pessimistic and

to have a good deal of self-efficacy. Believing in

yourself is motivation in itself.

Message no. 605[Branch from no. 277]
Sunday, March 23, 2003 5:43pm
Subject Re: Two views: self-efficacy and cynicism

The articles were informative and interesting. I myself

believe that it is very important to be an optimist

rather than a pessimist. I personally do not know

anyone who has ever been ill from positive thinking and

in cancer wards patients are encouraged to be optimistic

as with many diseases. Positive thinking can alter a

person's outlook and attitude. I also agree that people

with optimistic outlooks perform more challenging tasks.

This could be because they have a positive outlook on

how they will approach and handle many situations. As

for optimism being bad, I think that only if someone

puts to high expectations on yourself is there room for

failure and ill health. It is important to know your

boundaries and not get down on yourself if you fail at

something.

Message no. 617[Branch from no. 605]
Thursday, March 27, 2003 12:35pm
Subject Re: Two views: self-efficacy and cynicism

I think it is true that being optimistic is better than

being a pessimist...especially in regards to health, but

I find myself swaying back and forth between optimism

and pessimism. I guess both ways work for me (depending

on my mood) because pessimism helps me prepares for the

worst while optimism prepares me to hope for the best.

I think it is especially hard to be optimistic when you

are faced with difficult times like those children that

are in Iraq who have to face being thrust into war. I

don't know what it feels like, but I can only imagine

that it is extremely difficult to be optimistic while

there's missiles firing in your neighborhood.

Message no. 291
Friday, February 14, 2003 2:43pm
Subject Optimism-Pessimism and self-efficacy

I did a general search about the relationship between

optimism and pessimism and how it affects self-efficacy.

The problems I had with this search was trying to find

the right terms to search under because I was getting

varied resources each dealing with a different aspect of

either optimism, pessimism, or self-efficacy.

I did a search on these two sites:

HTTP://ABOUT.COM , http://www.yahoo.com

and these are my search terms:

SEARCH TERM: SELF-EFFICACY (38 ON ABOUT NETWORK, 197,284

HITS ON WEB) SEARCH TERM: PERCEIVED SELF EFFICACY

+PESSIMISM (1 HIT ON ABOUT NETWORK, 937 HITS ON WEB)

SEARCH TERM: OPTIMISM-PESSIMSM +SELF-EFFICACY (121 HITS

ON YAHOO) SEARCH TERM: PESSIMISM+self-EFFICACY

I had problems with http://about.com because it was not

giving me general information so I had a difficult time

searching and so I switch to www.yahoo.com which made it

more easier for me to find what I was looking for.

Here are the articles I found:

1. Information of Self-Efficacy A Community of Scholars

http://www.emory.edu/EDUCATION/mfp/effpage.html This

is an information page about almost everything you can

find about self efficacy including theories by Bandura,

graduate student research projects, and manuscripts, but

it is geared toward's Bandura's theory.

2."BUT THEY DID NOT GIVE UP"

http://www.emory.edu/EDUCATION/mfp/efficacynotgiveup.html

I found this page through the first link (1.) gives

examples of a lot of famous people and their examples of

being put down and it also gives quotes. Here are some

examples:

" Michael Jordan and Bob Cousy were each cut from their

high school basketball teams. Jordan once observed,

"I've failed over and over again in my life. That is why

I succeed."

"Charles Schultz had every cartoon he submitted

rejected by his high school yearbook staff. Oh, and Walt

Disney wouldn't hire him."

"Walt Disney was fired by a newspaper editor because

"he lacked imagination and had no good ideas." He went

bankrupt several times before he built Disneyland. In

fact, the proposed park was rejected by the city of

Anaheim on the grounds that it would only attract

riffraff."

3. "BOYS CREATE DISADVANTAGE BEFORE TEST TO HAVE EXCUSE

IF THEY DON'T PERFORM WELL, STUDY SHOWS"

http://www.udayton.edu/news/nr/121396.html This article

is indirectly related to optimism and pessimism and

talks about a study done with 81 students who tested

their perception before taking a test. It says that

boys are more likely to make excuses so that they'll

have an excuse of why they didn't do well. If the boys

were told of their positive qualities before they did

something new, then they were more likely to succeed.

4. "Counterfactual Thinking and Self Motives"

http://www.unc.edu/%7Esanna/ljs01pspb.pdf This article

is also indirectly related to the topic of optimism and

pessimism, but it talks about pessimism as a leading to

"upward counterfactuals" (thinking that the worst is

going to happen) because they lead to solving problems.

Message no. 294
Friday, February 14, 2003 4:13pm
Subject self efficacy related to optimism

I typed in optimism and self efficacy in to the google

search engine and I found a article on a mental health

session and how it relates to physical problems and

health hazards. I did not have much trouble finding

this article. I was searching for how optimism was

related to self efficacy.

http://www.sbu.ac.uk/psycho/teaching/healthpsy-ho4.shtml

The article had many references to it about how optimism

affects a persons self efficacy in major way. It also

gives you tips on how to become more optimistic and not

be a victim of mental health issues. Optimism is

important to self efficacy because it is the perception

that everything is possible which helps a person‚s self

efficacy because if they believe they can accomplish a

task then they will have a wider locus of control. They

will feel empowered to accomplish the task. They will

then apply their positive attitude to other things that

will allow them to feel as though they have more control

in the situation and better about making decision.

Message no. 408[Branch from no. 294]
Monday, February 24, 2003 10:17am
Subject Re: self efficacy related to optimism

Hmmmmm. To be optimistic may lead to self-efficacy, and

having self-efficacy leads to having a wider locas of

control. Well, I wonder why we as people feel the need

to have constant control. It seems that it might be

healthier to be more pestimistic than optimistic that

way your not setting yourself up for failure. If you

don't have high expectations that every thing will turn

out right, perfect and your way every time, then you

won't be as let down when things don't turn out. Always

being optimistic may lead to the path of pestimism by

the way of failure.

Message no. 598[Branch from no. 294]
Friday, March 21, 2003 3:25pm
Subject Re: self efficacy related to optimism

I think that it is very true how you said that if you

have optimism, you have a wider locus of control. I

think that optimism has a lot to do with

accomplishments. You can't accomplish anything without

believing that you can. It's your driving force.

Message no. 355
Thursday, February 20, 2003 11:23am
Subject Optimism and Self-efficacy

I searched for optimism and self-efficacy on

www.google.com. I was successful on the first try and

found many interesting articles. This website:

http://www.css.edu/users/dswenson/web/OB/attributionth.html

is very useful in understanding the viewpoints and

outcomes of people who are positive and rate high on

self-efficacy. I also like this website because it has

diagrams that show the viewpoints and outcomes of people

who are pessimistic and rate low on self-efficacy.

People who think that they have control over their lives

seem to have a more positive outlook and the way they

attribute consequences in their life determines their

future actions. The website also gives helpful links to

understand some of the theories and concepts such as

attribution theory. It also explains how people with

feel they have internal control over their life rather

than the world acting on them do better in their work

and have better health.

The other website that I really liked is a study on

self-efficacy in 14 cultures. You can find the article

at

http://www.fu-berlin.de/gesund/publicat/ehps_cd/health/world14.htm.

It describes how our thought patterns about control in

our lives can determine our emotional states. I think

that this is such an interesting subject and studies are

finding that people who rate themselves high on

self-efficacy actually perform better in life